What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[eternally-gratefull]

If you don't learn by example I don't know what to say. God's word gives us the law, (What God expects from us,) and then manyyyy examples of those who did right and those who did not. I would have preferred that you looked it up for yourself.

The command also ties directly into loving your neighbor as yourself. Part of the two greatest commandments.

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
Deuteronomy 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
Deuteronomy 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Deuteronomy 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
Deuteronomy 19:20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

lol.

You do not get what I am saying

If I tell you do not do something. yet do not explain to you how not to do it. I am giving you a law. but not giving you the means on how to keep that law. Just saying "do this or else"

Jesus gives us how we do it in the NT. I was hoping someone would show me this. but maybe no one is able to??

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

lol.

You do not get what I am saying

If I tell you do not do something. yet do not explain to you how not to do it. I am giving you a law. but not giving you the means on how to keep that law. Just saying "do this or else"

Jesus gives us how we do it in the NT. I was hoping someone would show me this. but maybe no one is able to??

In short as in all areas of the law, a demonstration is given by Christ on "how to" by love. We are to love one another, as He loved us. That is how.

 

[Least]

ok. So the law shows us we have sinned, and need a savior.

It gives much more info? Where?

eternally grateful,

Sold under sin means that a person is under the law. When we are in Christ, it's HIS yoke on us that helps us to overcome sin.
The bible tells us this:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (That is NT by the way.)

A person who is walking in sin is under the yoke of sin, under the law.

Even David described the law of liberty, and the race that is set before all of us.

Psalms 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.

Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

Hebrews Ch. 12 goes into more detail.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Sin is the transgression of the Law. "Whom God loves he chasteneth." When we sin, we are chastened and we know exactly where we have sinned. When God corrects us there is no mistaking the error that we were in, and in understanding that we are able to truly repent, (God is so merciful,) and turn away from that sin.

Psalms 61:7 He shall abide before God for ever: O prepare mercy and truth, which may preserve him.

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Psalms 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

The entire bible is about this, if you have time eternally grateful, may I suggest that you study out the word, "purged"?

As you see in Proverbs 16:6, leaven and purging are both part of this. Paul had much to say on the subject, and Jesus also spoke of it in regard to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Do you see the need for the Savior here? He purges us, He refines us, He corrects us, He cleanses us, and He instructs us by HIS word.

It's only in Christ that we can overcome this world.

 

[CWJ]

Hi there Just-me,

Whereas other terms which describe The Old Nature are dealing with actions: (ie., 'The Flesh', 'The Natural Man', 'The Old Man', 'The Outward Man', 'The Heart', 'Sin' [the root]); the term, 'The Carnal Mind' is more serious because it refers to the source of the actions performed, doesn't it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is a law that shows much more than our sin. It shows us a process of cleansing, so I believe "least" is correct that you would do well to read it and then share it. If you think the law is no more than condemnation, you haven't taken the time to see the instructions in righteousness.

Or more importantly. You have not shown us..

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Remember that most, if not all that people had for scripture, when Paul wrote this, was Old Testament as we know today. What we have, and call the New Testament scriptures had not been published at the same time they were being written. Paul didn't copy his own writing while he was writing the same thing.

lol. They did not have the law before moses was given it. yet people still did things for God. and knew how to do his will and not their own will. So in this aspect. Your saying here NO ONE could know until the law was given, sorry I disagree

Here is the law of cleansing, not condemnation. The carnal mind cannot comprehend the spiritual meaning of it, so I thought I would describe the spiritual meaning for you.

Leviticus 14:36-57 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest go into it to see the plague, that all that is in the house be not made unclean: and afterward the priest shall go in to see the house:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And he shall look on the plague, and, behold, if the plague be in the walls of the house with hollow strakes, greenish or reddish, which in sight are lower than the wall;
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then the priest shall go out of the house to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days:
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the priest shall come again the seventh day, and shall look: and, behold, if the plague be spread in the walls of the house;
[SUP]40 [/SUP]Then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which the plague is, and they shall cast them into an unclean place without the city:
[SUP]41 [/SUP]And he shall cause the house to be scraped within round about, and they shall pour out the dust that they scrape off without the city into an unclean place:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]And they shall take other stones, and put them in the place of those stones; and he shall take other morter, and shall plaister the house.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]And if the plague come again, and break out in the house, after that he hath taken away the stones, and after he hath scraped the house, and after it is plaistered;
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then the priest shall come and look, and, behold, if the plague be spread in the house, it is a fretting leprosy in the house: it is unclean.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And he shall break down the house, the stones of it, and the timber thereof, and all the morter of the house; and he shall carry them forth out of the city into an unclean place.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Moreover he that goeth into the house all the while that it is shut up shall be unclean until the even.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And he that lieth in the house shall wash his clothes; and he that eateth in the house shall wash his clothes.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And if the priest shall come in, and look upon it, and, behold, the plague hath not spread in the house, after the house was plaistered: then the priest shall pronounce the house clean, because the plague is healed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:
[SUP]53 [/SUP]But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]This is the law for all manner of plague of leprosy, and scall,
[SUP]55 [/SUP]And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
[SUP]56 [/SUP]And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
[SUP]57 [/SUP]To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

Verse 37 and 44

This scripture has been very uplifting to me, explaining a restoration after having been given the gift of faith. To me, it explains how the high Priest (Christ Jesus) has the power to clean the house (me) after welcoming Him in, to see the corruption of my fleshly nature, with vacant holes that need to be filled.
Verse 38

There were 7 days between Jesus entering Jerusalem, and His resurrection, 7 being the number, or letter “Zayin” (completeness) relating to food and nourishment, being the picture of a mattock (in the Hebrew pictorial) that prepares the ground, or heart. Relate to the parable of the sower and the seed.

Verse 40

Jesus was taken outside the city walls and killed with our unclean iniquity inside of Him.
Verse 41 and 45

He will take corruption away, in the process as He determines, on the cross outside the city walls.

I agree with you here.

But think of what you just said.

The law shows us we are unclean
It also shows us what we need to do to make ourselves clean (as you showed, the cross and Christs death)

But nothing hear shows me how not to be unclean (how to actually do the will of God.

Your still walking around in circles and NOT answering the question.

Verse 46 and 47 compared with Paul’s writings

Romans 12:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Verse 48 and 52

He will baptize me and pronounce me clean before the Father.
Verse 49 and 51

Cedar wood=known for it’s strength and deep root, even though the cross was Dogwood as I understand, and it doesn’t rot as other woods do.
Scarlet=blood
Hyssop=it is mentioned in Psalm 51 of the Bible as a Spiritual Purifying Agent, as it is written: Cleanse me with HYSSOP; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow.
Verse 50

His flesh shall be the sacrifice of cleansing.

Verse 53
The living bird is likened unto the scapegoat in Leviticus 16:8 (Az’azel)

Even though I know I see very little of the entire picture God is showing to me, this law has been uplifting to me, being a believer in Christ Jesus, knowing he continues to clean me up, when I confess my sinful nature. It helps me to see, and understand what dying daily means. May God bless you with these thoughts that are so deep and profound.

Again, All you have done is show HOW one is cleansed.

I asked.

HOW DOES THE LAW SHOW US NOT HOW TO BEAR FALSE WITNESS. IN THE LAW ITSELF.

You have correctly shown us

1. The law shows us we are unclean
2. The law shows us how to be cleansed.

I am still waiting on the answer to my question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In short as in all areas of the law, a demonstration is given by Christ on "how to" by love. We are to love one another, as He loved us. That is how.

Ah,

I see.

So your saying I do not obey the law by trying my best not to do what the law says not to do.

But instead by learning to love (the law of love)

Is this correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternally grateful,

Sold under sin means that a person is under the law. When we are in Christ, it's HIS yoke on us that helps us to overcome sin.
The bible tells us this:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (That is NT by the way.)

A person who is walking in sin is under the yoke of sin, under the law.

Even David described the law of liberty, and the race that is set before all of us.

Psalms 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.

Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

Hebrews Ch. 12 goes into more detail.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Sin is the transgression of the Law. "Whom God loves he chasteneth." When we sin, we are chastened and we know exactly where we have sinned. When God corrects us there is no mistaking the error that we were in, and in understanding that we are able to truly repent, (God is so merciful,) and turn away from that sin.

Psalms 61:7 He shall abide before God for ever: O prepare mercy and truth, which may preserve him.

Psalms 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Psalms 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

The entire bible is about this, if you have time eternally grateful, may I suggest that you study out the word, "purged"?

As you see in Proverbs 16:6, leaven and purging are both part of this. Paul had much to say on the subject, and Jesus also spoke of it in regard to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Do you see the need for the Savior here? He purges us, He refines us, He corrects us, He cleanses us, and He instructs us by HIS word.

It's only in Christ that we can overcome this world.

Least my friend

You still do not get what I am saying. I KNOW everything you just said.

I am being told that I become righteous by following the law. And if I do not do this. I am a sinful person.

When reality is. The law can ONLY SHOW ME how SINFULL I AM. It can do nothing else.

I am asking, HOW DOES THE LAW TELL ME HOW TO OBEY IT.

Again, think about what I am asking.

 

[john832]

lol.

You do not get what I am saying

If I tell you do not do something. yet do not explain to you how not to do it. I am giving you a law. but not giving you the means on how to keep that law. Just saying "do this or else"

Jesus gives us how we do it in the NT. I was hoping someone would show me this. but maybe no one is able to??

Actually, that is purpose of the statues and judgments. They explain how to keep the Law.

 

[just-me]

lol.

You do not get what I am saying

If I tell you do not do something. yet do not explain to you how not to do it. I am giving you a law. but not giving you the means on how to keep that law. Just saying "do this or else"

Jesus gives us how we do it in the NT. I was hoping someone would show me this. but maybe no one is able to??

The principles of love. This is a how to, and this is the law. The law comes with instructions on how to exact it. God is merciful in that respect.

Leviticus 19:9-18 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The principles of love. This is a how to, and this is the law. The law comes with instructions on how to exact it. God is merciful in that respect.

Leviticus 19:9-18 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So if I love my neighbor as myself.

I do not need to be told. do not lie. I would never bear false witness against him,why, because I am placing his needs above my own correct?

 

[CWJ]

What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

The answer is simply that it is FLESH, which weighs so many pounds in weight and will go back to the dust from whence it came. IT IS NOT SPIRIT. IT CANNOT PLEASE GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, that is purpose of the statues and judgments. They explain how to keep the Law.

They do?

Again prove it.

Telling someone what not to do does not tell them how to do it. How did the people before the law, who had no law. do the things they were supposed to do?

 

[john832]

Least my friend

You still do not get what I am saying. I KNOW everything you just said.

I am being told that I become righteous by following the law. And if I do not do this. I am a sinful person.

When reality is. The law can ONLY SHOW ME how SINFULL I AM. It can do nothing else.

I am asking, HOW DOES THE LAW TELL ME HOW TO OBEY IT.

Again, think about what I am asking.

You cannot become righteous by obedience or trying to obey. I agree 100 over 100. But one does not become righteous by disobedience either. We become righteous by Christ, but He does not just throw that around lightly. He does not give His righteousness or the Holy Spirit to those who practice disobedience without thought of change (repentance).

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God does not put the Holy Spirit into an excrement bucket. He puts it into a vessel He has cleansed and tells us to keep it cleansed, not fill it with excrement again.

Mat 23. Christ gave the pharisees the works for their filthy attitudes and actions.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Notice here that He does not say "sit back and relax", He says for them to make the inside clean.

 

[Grandpa]

Me? I'd rather live beside and have for a neighbor, a Commandment keeper every time.

A "Commandment keeper" is a Pharisee. They say and do not. Because their carnal understanding causes them to think they keep the law. Everyone who thinks they keep commandments in their flesh is exactly like the Pharisees, in some degree or other.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

So you come to the Lord Jesus and ask for forgiveness and then go back to your carnal understanding of keeping commandments. Which you yourself can't even keep. And so you go back to the Lord in this never ending cycle of carnal understanding.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

So if its not about our carnal understanding of keeping commandments then what is all this truly about?

The problem which you cannot perform by your work at the law;
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The solution presented by the Lord Jesus Christ;
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Lets see what the carnal mind thinks about that... lol

 

[just-me]

Or more importantly. You have not shown us..

Why should I? and how can I, except by quoting what God has given. You evidently have determined that the scripture I present are my words and not God's.

lol. They did not have the law before moses was given it. yet people still did things for God. and knew how to do his will and not their own will. So in this aspect. Your saying here NO ONE could know until the law was given, sorry I disagree

The Gentiles had the writings of Moses through the dispersed tribes of Israel. Please read closer what people write before responding.

But nothing hear shows me how not to be unclean (how to actually do the will of God.

Your still walking around in circles and NOT answering the question.



Again, All you have done is show HOW one is cleansed.

I asked.

HOW DOES THE LAW SHOW US NOT HOW TO BEAR FALSE WITNESS. IN THE LAW ITSELF.

See post #129. I'm sorry you don't know that. Telling stories about another that are not true verse 15-17. Ya think?

I am still waiting on the answer to my question.

What is the question? Would it be "show us how righteous you are by your obedience to the law?" If so that's a leading question that is totally ridiculous for I never have insinuated that. If I'm right about the question, it is your assumptions only by presumptions.

Psalm 19:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

 

[john832]

They do?

Again prove it.

Telling someone what not to do does not tell them how to do it. How did the people before the law, who had no law. do the things they were supposed to do?

There was never a time "before" the law in human history...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

If one reads these verses for what they say, we need go no further but, we will.

Law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

And as we read, where there is no Law, there is no sin, yet we read...

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

But there could be no sin without Law (Rom 4:15 & 5:13) yet we read of sin here, ergo there was Law. Let's go back a little before the time of Cain...

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

OK, first of all, the wages of sin is death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

so there was sin from Adam to Moses. In fact, Adam sinned as we read in Rom 5:14.

Let's go back further yet, to a time prior to Adam...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Here we see Satan cast as a liar and murderer from the beginning. He sinned from the beginning.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Here we see the Devil as committing sin (iniquity) at a time before man. How could he do this without Law? He could not according to Rom 4:15 and Rom 5:13. The Law has been in force prior to man on the earth.

 

[john832]

A "Commandment keeper" is a Pharisee. They say and do not. Because their carnal understanding causes them to think they keep the law. Everyone who thinks they keep commandments in their flesh is exactly like the Pharisees, in some degree or other.

I would like to see that in scripture! IN the mean time, this plainly shows that you have no idea what you are talking about...

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

A saint is one who keeps the Commandments.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

So you come to the Lord Jesus and ask for forgiveness and then go back to your carnal understanding of keeping commandments. Which you yourself can't even keep. And so you go back to the Lord in this never ending cycle of carnal understanding.

No, what happens is you come to the Lord and ask forgiveness then go back to breaking the Law that defines sin.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Subject matter? Circumcision of the flesh and the Pharisees do's and don'ts.

So if its not about our carnal understanding of keeping commandments then what is all this truly about?

The problem which you cannot perform by your work at the law;
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The solution presented by the Lord Jesus Christ;
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


Lets see what the carnal mind thinks about that... lol

Ah so since one cannot keep the Law perfectly, one should not try? Don't like someone? Kill 'em, don't worry about the sixth Commandment, you can't keep it anyway. Hot babe? Why not, who cares about the seventh Commandment. While you are at take God's name in vain and bow down to statues, those old Commandments don't mean anything at all.

You have a very strange theology Gramps. Christ didn't think much of it either...

Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[just-me]

So if I love my neighbor as myself.

I do not need to be told. do not lie. I would never bear false witness against him,why, because I am placing his needs above my own correct?

From what I have read on your posts to me is that you might assume that I'm bearing false witness because you brought the subject up. This is a conundrum of sorts, for if you think that I am, I have given no rhetoric that justifies myself, or trying to use scripture to do so. All I have endorsed is that ALL of the word of God is relevant for today including the law in relation to a carnal mind that can't get it.

I have simply said yes to your question that you asked me (without provocation, I might add) 'is your righteousness greater than the Pharisees?'

So in that respect, do you assume that I am bearing false witness because of my answer? Just to be clear, I've seen this tactic from others as will as you. The Pharisees used the same stuff on Jesus, leading questions and assumptions. Where is the false witness?

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

There was never a time "before" the law in human history...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

If one reads these verses for what they say, we need go no further but, we will.

Law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

And as we read, where there is no Law, there is no sin, yet we read...

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

But there could be no sin without Law (Rom 4:15 & 5:13) yet we read of sin here, ergo there was Law. Let's go back a little before the time of Cain...

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

OK, first of all, the wages of sin is death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

so there was sin from Adam to Moses. In fact, Adam sinned as we read in Rom 5:14.

Let's go back further yet, to a time prior to Adam...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Here we see Satan cast as a liar and murderer from the beginning. He sinned from the beginning.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Here we see the Devil as committing sin (iniquity) at a time before man. How could he do this without Law? He could not according to Rom 4:15 and Rom 5:13. The Law has been in force prior to man on the earth.

You must make a difference as to what law you are referring to. "Thou shalt not" has not been around forever, but ADDED because of the transgression of the true law of LOVE. God made everything. Before that time there was no one to kill, and thus no law forbidding it.

However if a man steps out of love and kills a person, a law must be written to forbid it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You cannot become righteous by obedience or trying to obey. I agree 100 over 100. But one does not become righteous by disobedience either. We become righteous by Christ, but He does not just throw that around lightly. He does not give His righteousness or the Holy Spirit to those who practice disobedience without thought of change (repentance).

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God does not put the Holy Spirit into an excrement bucket. He puts it into a vessel He has cleansed and tells us to keep it cleansed, not fill it with excrement again.

Mat 23. Christ gave the pharisees the works for their filthy attitudes and actions.

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Notice here that He does not say "sit back and relax", He says for them to make the inside clean.

lol. You still have failed to answer my question.

NO ONE HERE is arguing against the law showing us how filthy dirty sinners we are.

That is not the question.

HOW DOES THE LAW TELL ME HOW TO do the things God wants me to do. INSTEAD of doing the things which makes me a dirty rotten sinner?