What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[just-me]

then tell us

How How How.

You have yet to do this.

You keep saying what those people I grew up with saying.

God said do not do something, so you better not do it.

BUT HOW HOW HOW??

Learn how through the Word. If you cannot comprehend that concept I for sure can't tell you. If you are not of a carnal mind, then you are trying to lay a trap with leading questions. I'm not endorsing my words. I'm sure you can comprehend by now that I quote scripture to identify the core of the subject at hand. Why are you asking me something that you should already know? Are you actually saying that you cannot comprehend how the law can instruct us in righteousness along with the rest of the Bible?

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture (not just certain parts) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

See post #184

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Learn how through the Word. If you cannot comprehend that concept I for sure can't tell you. If you are not of a carnal mind, then you are trying to lay a trap with leading questions. I'm not endorsing my words. I'm sure you can comprehend by now that I quote scripture to identify the core of the subject at hand. Why are you asking me something that you should already know? Are you actually saying that you cannot comprehend how the law can instruct us in righteousness along with the rest of the Bible?

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture (not just certain parts) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

See post #184

lol

around around around we go. where he will answer no body knows.

what are you so afraid of friend? I am being serious here. I am not trying to make a joke. what are you afraid of?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And please show me where I said that. What I said was that we should obey God. I have never said that I am holy and righteous.

yet you do not tell us how. Your the one promoting law. not me..

Strange, i have given an answer to every question you have asked. Problem is it was not the answer you wanted

You have?? where??

You have a problem understanding this? When someone tells you not to kill, you can't understand?

no I don't. I just understand I should not kill. but how am i to not be tempted not to kill. what should I look at? the law?? that is going to stop me? it has not stopped anyone for 4000 years, why is it all of a sudden going to work now??

 

[just-me]

Isaiah 28:9-13 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

 

[RedTent]

I know that Gods word said there is no law against the fruit of the Spirit.

I asked you what laws are not kept by the fruit of the Spirit?

Let's say I am relying 100% on the fruit of the Spirit to get me into Heaven. Will I get in, according to the Law? Will I be Righteous according to God?

This is where so many Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit, whose life revolve around following Christ get all hung up. Just what, they ask scripture, is the law to them.

They know they can do what the law says and still scripture says they are not following law but legalism. They can listen to all law and do their best, and scripture says that is not what saves them, it is only through Christ who died for us and we access that through repentance. So many stop their learning there, and don't go on to the next step.

The next step is what is meant by putting on Christ. It is as if Jesus stands in a little narrow path beckoning us to come follow but it is bounded and defined by what is the real law. It has the ten commandments in it, it has love in it, and the Holy Spirit in us recognizes it.

The carnal side of us reads all the latest news, and all the ways to get ahead in this life. Sometimes those ways aren't part of this narrow road with Christ in it. The value system of the carnal mind it very different from God's value system. Demons are at the head of this system, and they are good at using our carnal minds to decide what scripture says. They often quote scripture to us to lead us away from Christ. A prime example is "law won't save". It is the truth, it won't. But not listening to law is like a road block that keeps us from entering the narrow road with Christ at the head.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Isaiah 28:9-13 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

ok tell us

the law did its job. It convicted us, It caused us to look at Christ, and by it we repented and were saved by faith in Christ.

what else can it do??

 

[chubbena]

A carnal mind cannot understand how. That's the whole point. If I asked another about spiritual matters in the word of God, and just could not comprehend it, that would confirm to all that I have a canal mind. I would keep asking How? How? How?

Even those who worship Nike know: Just do it.
Adidas too: Impossible is nothing.
OT:
He actually gave the instruction long ago: ask for the ancient path and walk in it. How? Just get up and walk.
NT:
The lame just obeyed, got up and walked.
Yeshua also set an example who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
We have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin, let alone death.

 

[just-me]

lol

around around around we go. where he will answer no body knows.

what are you so afraid of friend? I am being serious here. I am not trying to make a joke. what are you afraid of?

Isaiah 28:9-13 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Not afraid. I just keep quoting the word of God. It isn't that you haven't received any answers form me, I think it's your lack of comprehension.

 

[Grandpa]

So do you agree that the Spirit is understood through the word of God? What do you compare the Spirit that is leading you with?

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 16:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I compare spiritual with spiritual by the word of God, maybe some believe that is not necessary.

I really like all your explanations.

No. I don't agree that the Spirit is understood through the Word of God. I think the Word of God is understood through the Spirit. I don't think people can even understand the scriptures until they come to Christ.

Just look to Judaism and you can see quite clearly. They have the word but not the spirit, they have their understanding darkened. Are they less intelligent than anyone else? No. Quite the opposite. So much so that pride has caused them to stumble.

I was hoping you would tell us how to keep the law so I could compare what you do with scripture and with the Holy Spirit. I know how to keep the law. But interestingly enough you have never asked me how. I wonder why not? If you are already keeping them then surely you could tell me how you are doing it.

 

[Grandpa]

This is where so many Christians who are filled with the Holy Spirit, whose life revolve around following Christ get all hung up. Just what, they ask scripture, is the law to them.

They know they can do what the law says and still scripture says they are not following law but legalism. They can listen to all law and do their best, and scripture says that is not what saves them, it is only through Christ who died for us and we access that through repentance. So many stop their learning there, and don't go on to the next step.

The next step is what is meant by putting on Christ. It is as if Jesus stands in a little narrow path beckoning us to come follow but it is bounded and defined by what is the real law. It has the ten commandments in it, it has love in it, and the Holy Spirit in us recognizes it.

The carnal side of us reads all the latest news, and all the ways to get ahead in this life. Sometimes those ways aren't part of this narrow road with Christ in it. The value system of the carnal mind it very different from God's value system. Demons are at the head of this system, and they are good at using our carnal minds to decide what scripture says. They often quote scripture to us to lead us away from Christ. A prime example is "law won't save". It is the truth, it won't. But not listening to law is like a road block that keeps us from entering the narrow road with Christ at the head.

So your answer is no I won't make it in?

 

[just-me]

ok tell us

the law did its job. It convicted us, It caused us to look at Christ, and by it we repented and were saved by faith in Christ.

what else can it do??

I'll start with a simple concept, if the law convicted you to come to Christ for forgiveness, what do you endorse to others who are not saved, or do you use another avenue because you don't know very much about the law other than conviction. I think you don't see any hope in the righteous judgments of God from the past into the future. He never changes you know. What about the millennial reign of Christ and the feast of Tabernacles? Is the law of the feast condemnation or meditation, and convocation? Do you comprehend that?

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Zechariah 14:16-18 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not afraid. I just keep quoting the word of God. It isn't that you haven't received any answers form me, I think it's your lack of comprehension.

No

It is your unwillingness to admit.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what you rneighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

But according to you the way to do it is to FOCUS on the do nots' For that will make you righteous.

That just is not so. God wants us to do so much, He does not want us to focus on the "do not's". If we do this all the time, we will not do what he really wants us to do. Which is love our neighbor and serve him. And to take the love God has given you and pass it on to him. (allow God to use you)

Again, Why are you so afraid to admit this?

Lets focus on the does. and allow the do not's to go where they belong. for they will never show you how to do the "do's"

 

[just-me]

I really like all your explanations.

No. I don't agree that the Spirit is understood through the Word of God. I think the Word of God is understood through the Spirit. I don't think people can even understand the scriptures until they come to Christ.

Just look to Judaism and you can see quite clearly. They have the word but not the spirit, they have their understanding darkened. Are they less intelligent than anyone else? No. Quite the opposite. So much so that pride has caused them to stumble.

I was hoping you would tell us how to keep the law so I could compare what you do with scripture and with the Holy Spirit. I know how to keep the law. But interestingly enough you have never asked me how. I wonder why not? If you are already keeping them then surely you could tell me how you are doing it.

What do you use to abide by the exhortation of comparing Spiritual with Spiritual then? Is the Word of God not Spiritual to you? I'm not advocating keeping the law, I'm advocating the understanding of it, and why the carnal mind can't

 

[just-me]

No

It is your unwillingness to admit.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If I do this. I do not need the words which say do not covet what you rneighbor has, Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Do not kill your neighbor. Do not fornicate with your neighbors daughter, or commit adultery with his wife. etc etc etc.

I just use the law of love, and those things would not even cross my mind.

But according to you the way to do it is to FOCUS on the do nots' For that will make you righteous.

That just is not so. God wants us to do so much, He does not want us to focus on the "do not's". If we do this all the time, we will not do what he really wants us to do. Which is love our neighbor and serve him. And to take the love God has given you and pass it on to him. (allow God to use you)

Again, Why are you so afraid to admit this?

Lets focus on the does. and allow the do not's to go where they belong. for they will never show you how to do the "do's"

OK back to loving your neighbor. I posted this before so you would know the principles on how to do that. Sorry that you missed it. It's the law. This is how to do the does, and not do the don'ts. So you understand the law because of the faith you have in this scripture. Right? You defined it. How would you know if you didn't have it in the first place?


Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK back to loving your neighbor. I posted this before so you would know the principles on how to do that. Sorry that you missed it. It's the law. This is how to do the does, and not do the don'ts.

Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

lol.. Around in circles.

Did anything else i say in that post get to you?

I did not need you to repost that. It does not tell me you understood what I said, it just makes me think yet once again you are afraid to admit things.. again why is that?

 

[svedbygrace]

rom 7: 14 is speaking of the current state of man/ NOT the state of man prior to sin.

Let go of your calvanist blinders and you will see this

Man state is always carnal by nature, beginning with Adam ! It does not change until one is born again. Adam is the Natural 1 Cor 15:46

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So he was natural and carnal, he was not spiritual, you simply deny the Truth.

The Natural man cannot receive the things of God 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That word natural is the same word that describes Adam 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was not natural because he sinned, but because he was made from the earth 1 Cor 15:47-48

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Next you will be denying that Adam was made out of the earth !

 

[RedTent]

I really like all your explanations.

No. I don't agree that the Spirit is understood through the Word of God. I think the Word of God is understood through the Spirit. I don't think people can even understand the scriptures until they come to Christ.

Just look to Judaism and you can see quite clearly. They have the word but not the spirit, they have their understanding darkened. Are they less intelligent than anyone else? No. Quite the opposite. So much so that pride has caused them to stumble.

I was hoping you would tell us how to keep the law so I could compare what you do with scripture and with the Holy Spirit. I know how to keep the law. But interestingly enough you have never asked me how. I wonder why not? If you are already keeping them then surely you could tell me how you are doing it.

They have their understanding darkened by God for our sakes.

To "keep the law" takes lots of understanding of many scriptures, every one of which is important to each other, and each agrees. Some quote legalism, or looking at law without understanding the love in it, or expecting it to save or it must be tossed out, many look at it without understanding any one part of it so the whole is corrupted.

I have read many posters who seems to have an understanding of law, but I have noticed that all of them that do have also an understanding of Judaism as God's word that leads to Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

What do you use to abide by the exhortation of comparing Spiritual with Spiritual then?

I have the bible and prayer and the Spirit that the Lord Jesus has given me. I didn't have any way of judging what was of Him and what was not until the Lord opened my understanding through the Spirit.

That is why I gave you the example of Judaism. They have the word of God but not His Spirit.

Is the Word of God not Spiritual to you?

Of course the Word of God is Spiritual. His Words are Spirit and they are Life.

I'm not advocating keeping the law, I'm advocating the understanding of it, and why the carnal mind can't

The carnal mind understands the 10 commandments just fine. The carnal mind just has no ability to keep them.

 

[svedbygrace]

You bring up good points but the thread is about the carnal mind in reference to the law given to Moses, not free will, or being chosen of choosing to sin or not to sin. It's about not having capability to understand the law. Adam understood, and saw his nakedness because of God's commandments, otherwise he wouldn't have covered himself with fig leaves.

I don't care how you want to say it, adam was carnal in the beginning and could not keep God's Law, was not subject to it ! And that goes for every man afterwards !

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Man state is always carnal by nature, beginning with Adam ! It does not change until one is born again. Adam is the Natural 1 Cor 15:46

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

So he was natural and carnal, he was not spiritual, you simply deny the Truth.

The Natural man cannot receive the things of God 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That word natural is the same word that describes Adam 1 Cor 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was not natural because he sinned, but because he was made from the earth 1 Cor 15:47-48

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Next you will be denying that Adam was made out of the earth !

ok, you believe God makes imperfect things.

Thanks. I will move on now. And follow my God who does not make imperfect things.

Have a nice day,