What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[Grandpa]

If a person leans on their own understanding by rejecting anything that God has ever said, this verse applies. It's all or nothing. You are right in saying we are to be lead by the Spirit and not the carnal understanding of the law. On the other hand, if we are lead by the spirit, we will understand the truth of the law, for the carnal mind doesn't understand that the the law is still in effect the way God organically intended. Think about this, if the law is for the unsaved to lead them to Christ, why did God's patriarchs like Moses, David, Joshua, Caleb, Hezekiah, Ezra, and Nehemiah live by it? They all had faith in God, and were subject to the law. It is clear they were not carnal in their belief.

Because they trusted in God with all their heart and didn't lean on their own understanding. Somehow they understood the principles of Faith before the Lord Jesus Christ was made a sacrifice for us all. Somehow the Holy Spirit opened their eyes and their understanding.

The Holy Spirit doesn't cause us to reject anything that God has ever said. The Holy Spirit causes us to understand the spiritual meaning of Gods Words. God is a Spirit. And those who worship Him must do it in Spirit and Truth.

If you were led by the Holy Spirit you would understand that you are not under the law, you are not subject to it and your only hope is the Lord Jesus Christ. ONLY meaning ONLY. Not Jesus Christ plus (put any of your religious rituals here). Thats what trusting in God with all your heart and not leaning on your own understanding means.

 

[chubbena]

It tells us that you, just-me and john832 think you are somehow stronger and better than Gods chosen people who couldn't follow the law in their own strength.

It tells us that there is a lot of pride in the power of the will and flesh.

Thank God for Jesus. He helps us to overcome even our own selves. Our feelings of strength and superiority and pride.

What you missed was the power of God in those scriptures. God Himself will circumcise the heart and the heart of our offspring so that we will love the Lord our God with all of our hearts and souls, so that we will live.

How? Through the Spirit which gives Life.

The Great Equalizer. God is not a respecter of persons. Why? Because none of us can keep His Law by some special ability or strength of our own. Each and every one of us must come to Him in honesty and Truth. That is what subjecting yourself to the Holy Spirit is. Stepping out into the light... Admitting to yourself and to God that you are not His Subjects but that you wish to be. Appealing to His Mercy and Grace. That's how you stop resisting the Holy Spirit. Not by thinking in your carnal mind that you are keeping His Perfect Law by your flesh and will.

On the contrary, I think I am the weakest and the worst who needs mercy and His redemption because not only could I not obey the don'ts but also could not do the do's 100%. How do I know? Because I know the law. I know His standard. I know His law is perfect. I know carnal mind would not and could not subject to His law. I need the Holy Spirit.
Well, I believe some of us "Lawyers" have expressed similar one way or the other but no, you wouldn't let those upholding the law in peace. You have to make wars with them.
We shall see when the time comes what He's going to say.

 

[Dustoffmyfeet]

Uh, yes there was...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God created an angelic realm LONG before God created Adam...

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

And guess what? God has been consistent forever in what is right and what is wrong. It was wrong to lie or kill who knows how long before Adam was created and it will be wrong to lie and kill forever out into the future.

How can a lie be put forth if there are no lips to bring one out? Again it is important to understand what law is talked about. Sin came in the world by MAN.

As for Ezekiel, where was Jeremiah if this is the "Satan" you believed to be talked about here? God said that He KNEW Jeremiah BEFORE THE WOMB and sanctified him as a prophet to his people.

 

[Grandpa]

Instead of putting your own twist on it, what does God say?

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Psa 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psa 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

Gramps, I would suggest you read the entire 119th Psalm.

Do you think that the 119th Psalm is against being led by the Holy Spirit and for your carnal understanding of the law?

 

[chubbena]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You are to be led by the Holy Spirit not by your carnal understanding of His Law.

It begins with:

My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments.

 

[john832]

Do you think that the 119th Psalm is against being led by the Holy Spirit and for your carnal understanding of the law?

Do you think the 119th Psalm is against the Law? What translation are you reading?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If a person leans on their own understanding by rejecting anything that God has ever said, this verse applies. It's all or nothing. You are right in saying we are to be lead by the Spirit and not the carnal understanding of the law. On the other hand, if we are lead by the spirit, we will understand the truth of the law, for the carnal mind doesn't understand that the the law is still in effect the way God organically intended. Think about this, if the law is for the unsaved to lead them to Christ, why did God's patriarchs like Moses, David, Joshua, Caleb, Hezekiah, Ezra, and Nehemiah live by it? They all had faith in God, and were subject to the law. It is clear they were not carnal in their belief.

lol. then tell us.

why do you not understand the truth of the law.

1. why was it given??

Galatians 3: 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

2. What happens to the law AFTER it has fulfilled its purpose?

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

1 Timothy 1:9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

when are you going to admit this?

 

[john832]

How can a lie be put forth if there are no lips to bring one out? Again it is important to understand what law is talked about. Sin came in the world by MAN.

No, sin was already established prior to man...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

As for Ezekiel, where was Jeremiah if this is the "Satan" you believed to be talked about here? God said that He KNEW Jeremiah BEFORE THE WOMB and sanctified him as a prophet to his people.

Uh, whom do you suppose Ezekiel is writing of? A man?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which of the Laws that came out of the mouth of Almighty God are offensive to Him?


non of them are.

but what is the purpose of the law?

Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

I guess for some, They have not found the purpose of the law. and are still under it. Thats to bad..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

On the contrary, I think I am the weakest and the worst who needs mercy and His redemption because not only could I not obey the don'ts but also could not do the do's 100%. How do I know? Because I know the law. I know His standard. I know His law is perfect. I know carnal mind would not and could not subject to His law. I need the Holy Spirit.
Well, I believe some of us "Lawyers" have expressed similar one way or the other but no, you wouldn't let those upholding the law in peace. You have to make wars with them.
We shall see when the time comes what He's going to say.

Thats not the problem.

Yes you admit this. But then you refuse to admit that once the law has done its purpose. You no longer are under the law.

If you think you are still under the law. Then you still are looking for salvation and the spirit (how else could we interpret this) and thus are in the outside looking in. Hoping to find the peace which only God can give you.

Don't you want that peace?

 

[just-me]

The only question I ask is "WHAT LAW" is spiritual?

For example, before God made a man, "thou shalt not" could NOT have been law before that as there was no one to say these things to. There was something else in place long before this.

God's law is spiritual Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Galatians 3:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 

[Grandpa]

Which of the Laws that came out of the mouth of Almighty God are offensive to Him?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

A question with a question. I at least answer your question before I ask mine.

None of His Law is offensive to Him.

My big question is how are you going to tell all of us to work at a law that we have no power to perform? The Law is spiritual but I am carnal sold under sin. How do we become spiritual and no longer carnal? By our own will and strength? By our own understanding?

No. By coming to Christ. He changes us and gives us the Holy Spirit. This is what gives us rest. Because it is not we who work at the law anymore. It is His Love that fulfills it. Which is evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit in a Christians life.

Your own work at the law negates the faith required to trust in God with all your heart. You are leaning on your own understanding of what you think the law requires. That's why it is said in scriptures that the law is not of faith but the man who does them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can a lie be put forth if there are no lips to bring one out? Again it is important to understand what law is talked about. Sin came in the world by MAN.

As for Ezekiel, where was Jeremiah if this is the "Satan" you believed to be talked about here? God said that He KNEW Jeremiah BEFORE THE WOMB and sanctified him as a prophet to his people.

God knew everything.

But they do not believe this, They think Jeremiah still had to prove himself to God. As if he ever could even if he had to.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by just-me

If a person leans on their own understanding by rejecting anything that God has ever said, this verse applies. It's all or nothing. You are right in saying we are to be lead by the Spirit and not the carnal understanding of the law. On the other hand, if we are lead by the spirit, we will understand the truth of the law, for the carnal mind doesn't understand that the the law is still in effect the way God organically intended. Think about this, if the law is for the unsaved to lead them to Christ, why did God's patriarchs like Moses, David, Joshua, Caleb, Hezekiah, Ezra, and Nehemiah live by it? They all had faith in God, and were subject to the law. It is clear they were not carnal in their belief.

Because they trusted in God with all their heart and didn't lean on their own understanding. Somehow they understood the principles of Faith before the Lord Jesus Christ was made a sacrifice for us all. Somehow the Holy Spirit opened their eyes and their understanding.

The Holy Spirit doesn't cause us to reject anything that God has ever said. The Holy Spirit causes us to understand the spiritual meaning of Gods Words. God is a Spirit. And those who worship Him must do it in Spirit and Truth.

If you were led by the Holy Spirit you would understand that you are not under the law, you are not subject to it and your only hope is the Lord Jesus Christ. ONLY meaning ONLY. Not Jesus Christ plus (put any of your religious rituals here). Thats what trusting in God with all your heart and not leaning on your own understanding means.

Ya ever wonder how they understood the principles of faith? If one is led by the Holy Spirit they are not beneath the law, they are subject to it as these Biblical patriarchs were. Not in the flesh of self works, but by the Spirit of God.

 

[chubbena]

1 Corinthians 4:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

You don't yet understand love and the spirit of meekness. All you know is the rod and your slavery. You are missing out on a big part of who the Lord Jesus Christ is.

That saying is right. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink.

Which of the fruits of the Spirit are offensive to the Law or to God???????

Paul says and if you will listen: I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ya ever wonder how they understood the principles of faith? If one is led by the Holy Spirit they are not beneath the law, they are subject to it as these Biblical patriarchs were.

sorry, this is just not right, scripture says otherwise!

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

you can not be led by the spirit. and under the law. they are in opposition to one another.

the spirit leads in grace and knowledge. the law leads to death, because we can not fulfill the law. which was given because of sin (to tutor us to christ) not to stop sin.

 

[just-me]

lol. then tell us.

why do you not understand the truth of the law.

1. why was it given??

Galatians 3: 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

2. What happens to the law AFTER it has fulfilled its purpose?

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

1 Timothy 1:9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

when are you going to admit this?

context my friend, context 1 Timothy 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

 

[Grandpa]

On the contrary, I think I am the weakest and the worst who needs mercy and His redemption because not only could I not obey the don'ts but also could not do the do's 100%. How do I know? Because I know the law. I know His standard. I know His law is perfect. I know carnal mind would not and could not subject to His law. I need the Holy Spirit.
Well, I believe some of us "Lawyers" have expressed similar one way or the other but no, you wouldn't let those upholding the law in peace. You have to make wars with them.
We shall see when the time comes what He's going to say.

Which of the fruit of the Spirit is against His Law?

We establish His Law by faith in Christ. Not by our carnal understanding of what our flesh should and should not do according to law.

 

[just-me]

Ya ever wonder how they understood the principles of faith? If one is led by the Holy Spirit they are not beneath the law, they are subject to it as these Biblical patriarchs were. Not in the flesh of self works, but by the Spirit of God.

sorry, this is just not right, scripture says otherwise!

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

you can not be led by the spirit. and under the law. they are in opposition to one another.

the spirit leads in grace and knowledge. the law leads to death, because we can not fulfill the law. which was given because of sin (to tutor us to christ) not to stop sin.

You forgot to add the last part of my quote; "Not in the flesh of self works, but by the Spirit of God."

 

[john832]

sorry, this is just not right, scripture says otherwise!

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

you can not be led by the spirit. and under the law. they are in opposition to one another.

the spirit leads in grace and knowledge. the law leads to death, because we can not fulfill the law. which was given because of sin (to tutor us to christ) not to stop sin.

Not under the Law in the sense that it no longer carries the threat of the Death Penalty because Christ forgives us the transgression of His Law.

If one is no longer subject to the Law then killing, lying, committing adultery, etc is no longer sin. Paul says that he knew what sin is by the Law, if the law is no longer in force, then there is no longer sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So, there is no longer sin if there is no longer any Law to point it out and describe it.