What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[peacefulbeliever]

<snip>
I will quote where the added words covenant were in three verses when the writer was actually referring to the old temple, and talking about the physical priesthood that sacrifices in the temple mad by man.

Hebrews 8:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first "covenant" (it was faulty because it was physical and not spiritual) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

God didn't make a mistake. It is the flesh that made it faulty. Nevertheless, we are to compare spiritual with spiritual. That's what the old is for, to compare it with the newness in spirit.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new "covenant," (added word referring to the old temple) he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 9:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then verily the first "covenant" (Obviously sacrificial ordinances within the temple) had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

<snip>

I can't believe that you are still saying that the context of Hebrews 8 is the temple because of 3 ITALICIZED USAGES OF "COVENANT". Well, there are 6 other usages that are not italicized so the translators were correct in their use of covenant where is is italicized.

v6 - a better covenant; v8 - make a new covenant; v9 - first usage - not according to the covenant I made with their fathers; second usage - because they continued not in my covenant; v10 - For this is the covenant that I will make . . .

As for Hebrews 9 - the temple is spoken of 9:1b-14, 21-28 and 9:1a; 15-18 testament (covenant) covenant is spoken of 15-18). We must rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[homwardbound]

Which Law is against the fruit of the Spirit?

No law is against the Spirit of God at all ever, it is the flesh that one is born with originally from the womb that is against God period
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[RedTent]

Asking do you not see that in Christ he took care of this barrier you just spoke of, I am under the Law of Liberty, is this the Law you are speaking of in Christ?
Is there a difference in the Law of Liberty and the Letter of the Law?

If your law says you are at liberty to define God's law any way the spirit tells you to, I am not talking about that law. The law I speak of is one that you can check what the Holy Spirit tells you with, and they agree absolutely. The letter of the law means obedience with something missing like love.

My minister told of a call from a lady telling him of her coming marriage to an atheist, one that she said the Lord told her was fine when she prayed to God in the spirit. Does this come under your law of liberty you speak of?

 

[homwardbound]

and if I might add. If it is true love, it covers her future sins also

It covers future sins because as soon as a sin is done it is past faster than anyone can ask or ever blink an eye, the reason the word does not say future, is because we do not know our future and it is God that can and does keep one in submission if we will give all to God in Faith to God through Son's finished work that is, and are willinjg to be dead to self daily

 

[just-me]

I can't believe that you are still saying that the context of Hebrews 8 is the temple because of 3 ITALICIZED USAGES OF "COVENANT". Well, there are 6 other usages that are not italicized so the translators were correct in their use of covenant where is is italicized.

v6 - a better covenant; v8 - make a new covenant; v9 - first usage - not according to the covenant I made with their fathers; second usage - because they continued not in my covenant; v10 - For this is the covenant that I will make . . .

As for Hebrews 9 - the temple is spoken of 9:1b-14, 21-28 and 9:1a; 15-18 testament (covenant) covenant is spoken of 15-18). We must rightly divide the word of truth.

Hebrew 8:1-4 begins with the ordinances of temple worship.

The blood covenant revolved around temple worship. If the words of God made the covenant, and we say the covenant is changed, then we are saying God's word changes. Is that what you are endorsing that God's word changed? I say God's word is the same and humans broke covenant not God. Henceforth Jesus came to change us. Let's talk about the wine, and wine skins and maybe we can understand one another better. OK?

Matthew 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[homwardbound]

I forgot one of the down with the law people use for their point, it is the word fulfill. They love it. It is what Christ did, they say. Once Christ came and fulfilled, then everything before Christ could be wiped out for anything fulfilled is over and done with. That idea is used over and over, and there is no fact about it that makes even a dent in their determination, not even what Christ Himself said about it. They, according to them, are the authorities on the subject and they are just listening to scripture, Christ said it was all over. Fulfilled so we can dump it all out.

Did Christ not say that he came to fulfill the Law and Prophets? Did he do this? Are we by this under new Laws and new Priesthood?
And this new Priesthood of which tribe is it under? Levite or Judah
Under the Law of Moses are there according to Law ever to have any priest outside of the Levite tribe?

So what is new and what is old in truth or is Christ a maniac and a liar
We are by this new covenant under new law and under new priesthood are we not?

 

[homwardbound]

Gathering firstfruits are in the Mosaic law.
Leviticus 23:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

When we are born again, we enter into the land of promise. Recognizing this is being subject to the law. This is just very little of a very big picture.


Resurrection, Spiritual completeness, and our Father's perfection is what I would call the seven Spirits of God in Revelation 4:5 One might think that these attributes are only the offerings made by Christ Jesus, and our Father in heaven. These offerings are a representation of God’s children carrying the understanding in their heart, for God causes the faithful to complete things as He has previously determined. In James 2:20 a rhetorical question is asked, helping us to understand that faith is the motivator of completing this plan via good works saying; “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” Through faith we know, and revere the handiwork of God, recognizing our Father’s perfection. So we can see that the seven lambs offered during trumpets, and atonement, represent the indwelling Spirit of our Lord within His elect. We now have a sincere reason to yearn, as did Paul, when we read Romans 8:23. “And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.” After the Feast of Unleavened Bread, seven weeks are counted for the feast of weeks, beginning with the harvest of firstfruits within this time frame. Also the fifty days counted, beginning in the first month, represent the Holy Spirit, and Pentecost. The fifteenth day of the first month beings the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and is the same day that the Feast of Tabernacles begins in the seventh month. It’s amazing to me how the number seven continues to pop up in relation to the Holy Spirit of God, all centered upon Jesus Christ. So in James 1:18 we can relate the seven lambs to the firstfruits of His plan. It reads “ Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” It’s better to confess to the Truth while you’re still alive rather than after you’re dead, “For it is written” in Romans 14:11, and Philippians 2:11b “As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

The Mosaic Law we are not under any longer we are in a new priesthood, and under the laws of love in the Abraham Covenant in the order of Melchisadek
That was promised to Abrahan before the Mosaic Law ever came in play to show the need to trust God and walk by faith in God

 

[chubbena]

It was Job security that got Jesus to the cross by the religious Pharisees seeing that no one was going to synagogue and they were losing their income. so they set out to kill him very sneakily

Simply marvelous.

 

[just-me]

The Mosaic Law we are not under any longer we are in a new priesthood, and under the laws of love in the Abraham Covenant in the order of Melchisadek
That was promised to Abrahan before the Mosaic Law ever came in play to show the need to trust God and walk by faith in God

AMEN refer to OP
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

That's true we are not under, and the law is no longer over us. We have been put in a different position through Christ, and now we are submissive to the words God gave to Moses, and the prophets. Not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. According to the words of Jesus we would not know who He really was without those writings of Moses.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[chubbena]

lol.

No. They did not enter because they did not trust God. And kept complaining

wow talk about making excuses.

If you want to be under law. feel free. The end result will be death.

I was talking about those who actually entered.
You should have known my stance on the phrase "under the law", well, unless you never paid attention to my responses like this last one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was Job security that got Jesus to the cross by the religious Pharisees seeing that no one was going to synagogue and they were losing their income. so they set out to kill him very sneakily

which came from what?

I am already right with God. Thus I do not need this messiah who is stating I need him to get to heaven.

So since I am (according to the law) righteous. I need to get rid of this man.

Your right, it is job security. But that is still based on the fact they did not take the law for what its purpose was. To lead us to Christ. If they did understand the law. They would not have rejected Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was talking about those who actually entered.
You should have known my stance on the phrase "under the law", well, unless you never paid attention to my responses like this last one.

You are saying the same thing Just-me and the others are saying are you not? Or have I misread you, if I have forgive me, and try to explain it to me.

The people who entered trusted God. They knew he could overcome the people in the land, They TRUSTED the promise of God (I Give you this land)

It had nothing to do with the law.

 

[RedTent]

Did Christ not say that he came to fulfill the Law and Prophets? Did he do this? Are we by this under new Laws and new Priesthood?
And this new Priesthood of which tribe is it under? Levite or Judah
Under the Law of Moses are there according to Law ever to have any priest outside of the Levite tribe?

So what is new and what is old in truth or is Christ a maniac and a liar
We are by this new covenant under new law and under new priesthood are we not?

I am reminded of what Christ told the devil when he tempted Christ by quoting scripture to Him. Christ said "it also says". In other words, your scripture is missing a huge amount of "it also says". Partial reading of scripture is from the devil, not Christ. You aren't saying HOW Christ fulfilled the law, scripture tells us that in the gospels. Christ didn't wipe the old out, Christ added to what was there to fill it. That is what is new about the law. Yes, under the Law of Moses, it is preparing us for the new priest, Christ did not wipe out all the old priesthood did, as our new priest we can see what Christ is to us as the new one, and He ADDED to it, not wiped it out.

You haven't a clue about what is old and what is new, your posts show that. It would be like trying to build a new automobile by refusing to use anything discovered about automobiles before 1930 because you have a new better plan now. It couldn't be done and the new auto wouldn't work. Your idea of the new won't work because you aren't building it on the old, you are wiping that all out and just trying to build on the new only.

 

[chubbena]

Originally Posted by chubbena

The same mistake the Israelites made after they entered the promised land.

They errored before, and after. Anybody over the age of 20 died except Joshua and Caleb before they entered the promised land. After they entered the promised land they errored against the law again and again. There is nothing wrong with chubbena's statement. You are relating before, and he is relating after. I'm sure you have read about the numerous judgement of God in Judges and other books in the OT relating teh history of the Israelites straying from the truth over and over again after they entered the promised land.

Breaks my heart every time I read the prophets. How could they be so stiff necked! All one had to was to repent and they just didn't want to. How could it be that He sent His own Son to save after all these? Amazing! Amazing love!

 

[just-me]

Breaks my heart every time I read the prophets. How could they be so stiff necked! All one had to was to repent and they just didn't want to. How could it be that He sent His own Son to save after all these? Amazing! Amazing love!

The grace of God is truly extraordinary. I'm so happy that He never changes. Never has, and never will.

Amos 9:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

 

[Grandpa]

AMEN refer to OP
Romans 8:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

That's true we are not under, and the law is no longer over us. We have been put in a different position through Christ, and now we are submissive to the words God gave to Moses, and the prophets. Not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. According to the words of Jesus we would not know who He really was without those writings of Moses.

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Another good one.

Bravo.

 

[just-me]

Another good one.

Bravo.

I do believe we are finally getting to know each other. All glory to the Father of light.

 

[Grandpa]

I do believe we are finally getting to know each other. All glory to the Father of light.

I'm trying not to nit-pick everything you say. I'm still not 100% about the way you word things.

Like when you said we are submissive to the words God gave Moses and the Prophets.

I would have said we are submissive to the Lord Jesus Christ and this has helped us to understand the words God gave Moses and the Prophets. Just because being submissive to the Letter is not the same as being submissive to His Spirit.

You see the difference?

 

[just-me]

I'm trying not to nit-pick everything you say. I'm still not 100% about the way you word things.

Like when you said we are submissive to the words God gave Moses and the Prophets.

I would have said we are submissive to the Lord Jesus Christ and this has helped us to understand the words God gave Moses and the Prophets. Just because being submissive to the Letter is not the same as being submissive to His Spirit.

You see the difference?

Yes. I see what you are saying.

Romans 7:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

By using words, we can actually downgrade the word of God to others, and confusion sets in when we read man shall live by every word of God. And then we will say every word except the law He gave to Moses, by trying to explain the truth as we see it. Where we are going wrong ( and where I used to go wrong also, and maybe still do at times) is inadvertently, and not on purpose lead some to believe God changes when we are the ones that need changing. The reason we must be delivered from the letter of the law is that it is seen with the carnal mind. When the Holy Spirit changes us via Christ Jesus, we see what used to be physical in a different light, that is the true light, Jesus Christ. The law didn't change, we did, and now it is edifying rather than convicting like when we were under it. The old and new are the same with God. The old and new are different with us.

 

[just-me]

Hebrews 10:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

I've attempted to explain this before. There needs to be substance and light to make a shadow. The shadow exemplifies the shape of the substance, in every curve and joint and mass. If the light is gone, there is no shadow, and if the substance is gone there is no shadow. If the substance changes shape, so will the shadow change shape. It is very easy for human nature to change the shape of the substance, or even take the substance away, and then the shape of the shadow is easily described as something it never was intended to be cause we don't see it, we are just trying to remember. If the light moves as does the Spirit of God moves, the shadow of the substance changes, but not the substance itself. It then becomes our perspective as we see it in all areas according to the way the light moves, but the substance always stays the same.