Salvation Not Possible Without Works

Dustoffmyfeet · Mar 21, 2014

The truth is that we can end death NOW! Faith without works is dead, and thus we still go to the grave "believing" in a RISEN savior who has the power to stop it.

But as of now, our faith is demonstrated in the works of the FLESH, and not of the Spirit. When we as a whole do the works of the Spirit, we will be transformed and never taste death.

Hoffco · Mar 21, 2014

This confusion has been around as long as I can remember; I started Bible college in 1961, as soon as I was there for a few weeks I was a part of the confusion. I didn't get a handle on the Bible for 3 yrs. It is very complicated, until you look at all sides of the Bible teaching. And that takes a few yrs.. Salvation is one thing from God's side and it is another from man's side. We need to make clear: 1. What does God do to save us. 2. What do we need to do to be saved. Start making a list of what God does and another list of what God commands us to do in order to get saved. Keeping in Mind, both lists are true. Truth does not contradict it self. Truth compliments it self. AND, God's word is the only source of salvation truth.! Happy studying. God Bless you all, Hoffco

Dustoffmyfeet · Mar 21, 2014

Hoffco said:

The work of salvation is a closed loop. You cannot come to the Father unless you go through the Son, BUT you cannot come to the Son unless the Father draws you. We simply have to believe in this and apply it.

Daley · Mar 21, 2014

SeaBass said:

Works are the evidence of our faith, but the works themselves do not save us. It isn't possible to have the kind of faith that saves without having works of faith along with it, because that kind of faith naturally produces good works as naturally as a tree bears a leaf. So when the Bible makes statements to the effect that a person without works is works than an infidel, it isn't saying the works would have saved him and he is lost because he doesn't have them, but it is saying that having no works proves he doesn't have the kind of faith that saves.

ladylynn · Mar 21, 2014

"God is a debtor to no one". If we decide to work for our salvation, He is not obliged to do anything. Access to God is by one way only. Jesus said "I am the Way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me"

Then when we have recieved Jesus as our Saviour, and begin to seek to imitate Him
It's essencial to know who we are in Christ before we can make any progress for God. To trust that He knows us well enough to save once for all our lives., Sin is no longer imputed to us., it was taken away and nailed to the cross. Many chrisitans do the dance of being righteous but then not being righteous.,then getting righteous again, then dropping the ball and not being righteous. Soon the dance is exhausting. We are not nor will we ever be righteous enough to do a good work worthy of salvation. Also we will never be good enough to do a work of sanctification in our lives. lol The sanctification process is also done by grace through faith in Him as we allow Him to love us through life. Trust Him to take care of us and bring us through to the end. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. amen!

When we recieve Jesus Christ, we become the righteousness of God in Christ. We become the righteousness OF GOD ...IN CHRIST. doesn't get any better than that.
It even sounds too awsome to say.

Grace is getting everything while putting IN nothing ourselves. We pay nothing, Jesus paid all. He received our sin...we recieve HIS righteousness. It is a spiritual truth that will not make sense to a human mind unless God opens your understanding to free grace. Grace cannot be earned or merited by impressing God with our humble goodness. There is nothing worthy of merit in us. That is the very reason it took Jesus., the Son of God to come. Where sin abounds GRACE much more abounded.
That is the Gospel message...the Good News!!! That is why we can be so joyful in this life now and in the next life. We can live in joyful anticipation of what He will do as we consider what He has done and IS doing now in us. That is the difference between successful living and defeated living for the christian.

BenFTW · Mar 21, 2014

The SIMPLICITY of The GOSPEL
John 3:14-16

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

That's simple, that's straightforward, that's grace. That's the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

What of works?

Ephesians 2:8-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We have now established that works do not attribute, whatsoever, to your salvation( grace alone, through faith in Jesus Christ).

You now wonder, "What place do works have after I've been saved?"

They are not works you strive to do. You WALK IN the works the Lord has prepared beforehand. You do not do them, you bear fruit, you dont strain to do them. They follow as a natural consequence of being born-again and the fruits of the Spirit (ie; Love). You dont go out of your way doing works, they are a natural consequence of who you now are. Dont put the cart before the horse. Works are a fruit of salvation, not the root of salvation.
They also determine your reward when we are judged on the mercy seat of Jesus Christ (not for salvation).

Do works maintain my salvation then, if they are a natural consequence of my salvation?

No. No more than a child is a child to a Father and as a son he will obey his father, but his obedience does not determine his sonship. He is a son regardless of his conduct. Its in the blood!(Jesus' blood, get the analogy?)

You have tried to complicate that which is simple. I fear that out of your complication you will lead people astray, such as Pres19. I will point you to the words of Paul, as an evangelist, he knew what he was preaching to people for the salvation of their souls.

2 Corinthians 11:3

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

By grace, saved through faith in Jesus Christ. (Faith alone, no works)

Bonus, just for you SeaBass (to show you the absurdity of what you preach)

If someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior and is presented an opportunity to do one good work, and he doesn't do it, will he be saved? If you answer, "No" then what you are saying, is that we must be perfect. If that be the case, was not Jesus sent because we fall short of the glory of God? Is it not because we are imperfect that we needed Jesus' perfect self to die on the cross on our behalf, for God requires perfection(be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect)?
The work presented itself, but Joe didn't walk in the work. But let me tell you something. Thank God Jesus did the work.

"It is finished!"

Don't complicate the Gospel. Its quite simple. So simple that Paul feared people would be led astray. The grace that makes Christianity what it is, makes Christianity unique as a religion. It isn't man pleasing. It isn't God pleasing, for God does the work, we don't do something to please him. We rest in the One He was well pleased. That is Jesus Christ.

How simple is the Gospel? John 3:16.

Extended bonus!

By the very definition of being a born-again Christian, we will have the fruits of the Holy Spirit and we have a regenerated spirit. Hence, such things will lead to good works in our life time. We aren't seeking after these works, they are a necessary out-flow of who we now are. It isn't a work, no more than an apple tree needs to TRY and produce apples. It just happens. You want to say that these works maintain their salvation, or the works show that it is not faith alone, but what you fail to realize is that the works cannot save, did not save, and have no power to save. If you have all the best most kind loving works in the world and you don't have Christ, you don't have anything pertaining to eternal life.

A. Faith in Jesus Christ leads to salvation
B. Faith leads to (possible) works
c. Therefore works are necessary for salvation. (incorrect)

That is your argument, but if that is the case, then you can't move past premise A, without first addressing works. Your argument collapses on itself, because that would mean you are arguing for works based salvation. Which, as has been clearly shown, is not biblical.

Keep it Simple (I want to add the next "S" but I won't)

Daley · Mar 21, 2014

ladylynn said:

"God is a debtor to no one". If we decide to work for our salvation, He is not obliged to do anything. Access to God is by one way only. Jesus said "I am the Way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me"

Then when we have recieved Jesus as our Saviour, and begin to seek to imitate Him
It's essencial to know who we are in Christ before we can make any progress for God. To trust that He knows us well enough to save once for all our lives., Sin is no longer imputed to us., it was taken away and nailed to the cross. Many chrisitans do the dance of being righteous but then not being righteous.,then getting righteous again, then dropping the ball and not being righteous. Soon the dance is exhausting. We are not nor will we ever be righteous enough to do a good work worthy of salvation. Also we will never be good enough to do a work of sanctification in our lives. lol The sanctification process is also done by grace through faith in Him as we allow Him to love us through life. Trust Him to take care of us and bring us through to the end. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. amen!

When we recieve Jesus Christ, we become the righteousness of God in Christ. We become the righteousness OF GOD ...IN CHRIST. doesn't get any better than that.
It even sounds too awsome to say.

Grace is getting everything while putting IN nothing ourselves. We pay nothing, Jesus paid all. He received our sin...we recieve HIS righteousness. It is a spiritual truth that will not make sense to a human mind unless God opens your understanding to free grace. Grace cannot be earned or merited by impressing God with our humble goodness. There is nothing worthy of merit in us. That is the very reason it took Jesus., the Son of God to come. Where sin abounds GRACE much more abounded.
That is the Gospel message...the Good News!!! That is why we can be so joyful in this life now and in the next life. We can live in joyful anticipation of what He will do as we consider what He has done and IS doing now in us. That is the difference between successful living and defeated living for the christian.

Amen. Amen.

BenFTW · Mar 21, 2014

Daley said:

Works are not evidence of our faith. They are a witness to people judging whether we are saved. They have no place in salvation. They are a witness to the one determining whether we are of the faith, but have no actual reflection upon that person's faith. "Works are the evidence of our faith" is not an accurate statement in totality because someone people take time to bear fruit. Not everyone changes immediately. Hence, "babes in Christ." One must be careful when saying such a thing because people like SeaBass take it out of context and take it to the extreme.

faroukfarouk · Mar 22, 2014

Pres19 said:

Presley: As far as we are concerned, it's like the old proverb applies:

You can bring the horse to the trough, but you can't make it drink...

(God Himself needs to change the person's heart.)

Blessings.

Jabberjaw · Mar 22, 2014

BenFTW said:

Faith is a work :

1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,

Simplicity!

BenFTW · Mar 22, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

You aren't arguing that salvation is works based, are you? Re-read what I wrote. You run into a contradiction, otherwise.
What does it mean by "work of faith?" It doesn't mean faith that is of work, it means works that were done in faith or the other possibility, not rejecting the work of faith that was done for them.

John 6:28, 29 ""What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" 29Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.

Who does the work? "It is the work of God."

So, we see if we are referencing faith as a work, it is God who does it. Now, we can go along the other lines and say they did faithful works in obedience, but we then realize that it has nothing to do with salvation, but again, is a fruit of salvation.

Simplicity!

chubbena · Mar 22, 2014

Simplicity? Really?

We all claim we believe in Christ. Let's see

When the rich young man asked Him what good things must he do to get eternal life, His reply was
a. There's only One who is good.
b. Obey the commandments.
c. Sell everything.
d. Follow Him.

When the expert in law asked Him, His reply was "do as written in the law that is ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

PennEd · Mar 22, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is NOT from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

GOD has given the faith to us. WE did not do anything to work for it. Having received it, we should constantly be exercising it, BUT IT DOES NOT, AND CANNOT SAVE US,

So it all operates like this:

1.We receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. Romans 10:9

2. We understand that we are chosen by God, and there is nothing we did or can do to attain our Salvation through works.Ephesians 2:8

3.THEN Thessalonians 1:3 applies.

God bless you and have a great weekend.

.

BenFTW · Mar 22, 2014

chubbena said:

You will fall in error if you only read the red letters in your bible and assume everything Jesus said pertains to you. The young rich ruler asked a question under Law. Jesus asked him a question under Law and gave him an answer based upon Law. "What must I DO?" Jesus sees he has a works mentality and the Law hasn't put him in his place, that is that he has a need for a savior. So what does Jesus do? He goes right to the heart of the matter. "Sell everything that you have and follow me." The young rich ruler couldn't do it, and in doing so, it shows that he has just broke the 1st Commandment. Thou shalt have no other gods before me He just committed idolatry.

You have to rightly divide the Word and you have to look at the Word of God through the lense of the cross. It changes everything. Not everything Jesus said was for the NT believer, as it was a time of transition between covenants. It was a time when Christ was pointing to what He would do (die on the cross) and where they were then, at that point in time (under law and not grace). So, when he addresses people with certain statement you must look at it through the lense of the cross and also in context. When Jesus told him what to do by the Law of loving God and thy neighbor the rich young man said he did it! So, Christ shows how he infact hasn't and has fallen short of the perfect standard God requires.

ladylynn · Mar 22, 2014

chubbena said:

Jesus meets each person where they are. The rich young ruler's heart was in his money and what his good works were "all his life". So Jesus dealt with him about his money and his pride. Because the young man was depending on his wealth and his good works he had done since his youth, he went away sad because his works would not allow him to give up his money. Showed where his heart really was.

The religious man was all about the doing the law. So Jesus gave him the impossible task to Love the Lord with all your heart and strength and sould and mind etc... and love your neighbor as yourself. None of these things can be done without first recieving Jesus Himself. If we love ourselves, money or religion, they cannot save us or satisfy us in this life either.

The good news is really good news. He gives us eternal life and none shall take it away.

p_rehbein · Mar 22, 2014

Title of OP................

"Salvation Not Possible Without Works"

.....................BUT, HEY, IF IT "WORKS" FOR YOU...........well, keep on................

ladylynn · Mar 22, 2014

BenFTW said:

You will fall in error if you only read the red letters in your bible and assume everything Jesus said pertains to you. The young rich ruler asked a question under Law. Jesus asked him a question under Law and gave him an answer based upon Law. "What must I DO?" Jesus sees he has a works mentality and the Law hasn't put him in his place, that is that he has a need for a savior. So what does Jesus do? He goes right to the heart of the matter. "Sell everything that you have and follow me." The young rich ruler couldn't do it, and in doing so, it shows that he has just broke the 1st Commandment. Thou shalt have no other gods before me He just committed idolatry.

You have to rightly divide the Word and you have to look at the Word of God through the lense of the cross. It changes everything. Not everything Jesus said was for the NT believer, as it was a time of transition between covenants. It was a time when Christ was pointing to what He would do (die on the cross) and where they were then, at that point in time (under law and not grace). So, when he addresses people with certain statement you must look at it through the lense of the cross and also in context. When Jesus told him what to do by the Law of loving God and thy neighbor the rich young man said he did it! So, Christ shows how he infact hasn't and has fallen short of the perfect standard God requires.

Hi BenFTW We both answered the same post by chubbena at the same time so I didn't see what you posted till after i posted. Hey very well said brother!! God Bless you!! Isn't God's truth amazing!! All God's Word is inspired, not just the red letters.

seed_time_harvest · Mar 22, 2014

SeaBass said:

If you don't work,and i'm don't mean just a j o b but good kindom work,like spiritual work like a sincere smile and genuine concern and care for your fellowman,If you don't have a desire to do this kind of kingdom work then i don't think that was salvation in heart but in word.

In other words if the salvation was true,you will work.

p_rehbein · Mar 22, 2014

BenFTW said:

..............W-O-A-H............???..............whhhaaaaaa ???

Did Jesus FIRST address the Law to this young man? YES.......Why? Because the Law was the First Covenant, and what the young man knew...........

HOWEVER

Then Jesus introduced this young man to the New Covenant.................................GRACE..............

There is NOTHING written in red that is not of value to or intended for the Church today.........

There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL.........................(sorry............)

IF ALL ONE DID WAS READ AND LIVE the words written in red.........one would truly be a blood bought, born again child of the King and an heir to the Promise..................

If you doubt this............then consider how many times EVEN TODAY people stress "living under the Law" as opposed to GRACE.............they are no different than this young man............ERGO the words written in red spoken to this young man by Jesus fully apply to the Church today.

BenFTW · Mar 22, 2014

p_rehbein said:

..............W-O-A-H............???..............whhhaaaaaa ???

Did Jesus FIRST address the Law to this young man? YES.......Why? Because the Law was the First Covenant, and what the young man knew...........

HOWEVER

Then Jesus introduced this young man to the New Covenant.................................GRACE..............

There is NOTHING written in red that is not of value to or intended for the Church today.........

There is ONLY ONE GOSPEL.........................(sorry............)

IF ALL ONE DID WAS READ AND LIVE the words written in red.........one would truly be a blood bought, born again child of the King and an heir to the Promise..................

If you doubt this............then consider how many times EVEN TODAY people stress "living under the Law" as opposed to GRACE.............they are no different than this young man............ERGO the words written in red spoken to this young man by Jesus fully apply to the Church today.

Go cut off your hand or rip out your eye. Oh sorry, Jesus was only kidding.

Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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