the Law before moses

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Now this discusion over God's eternal Law is that not tothat we teach according to the Law of moses but to bring to light the Eternal truth wich jesus came for before eden God's Law was but through the ages it was revealed in increments to bring the final piece wich Jesus came and brought bringing into fullfillment isaiah 45 , now i will go and further elaborate the Law of moses be cause paul said that the law served as a schoolmaster till the seed of the promise came to that is Jesus .
 
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[TD="align: center"][h=1]Exodus Chapter 20[/h][/TD]
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Viewing the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge). Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Exodus Chapter 20

[SUP]1[/SUP] And God spake all these words, saying,

[SUP]2[/SUP] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[SUP]3[/SUP] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[SUP]7[/SUP] Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[SUP]8[/SUP] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[SUP]9[/SUP] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[SUP]10[/SUP] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[SUP]11[/SUP] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
[SUP]12[/SUP] Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
[SUP]13[/SUP] Thou shalt not kill.
[SUP]14[/SUP] Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[SUP]15[/SUP] Thou shalt not steal.

[SUP]16[/SUP] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[SUP]17[/SUP] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

[SUP]19[/SUP] And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
[SUP]21[/SUP] And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
[SUP]22[/SUP] And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

[SUP]23[/SUP] Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
[SUP]24[/SUP] An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

[SUP]25[/SUP] And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
[SUP]26[/SUP] Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
 
Now we see the ten commandments laid but look at what follows starting verse 22 and to the following chapters...
 
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[TD="align: center"][h=1]Exodus Chapter 21[/h][/TD]
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Viewing the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge). Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Exodus Chapter 21

[SUP]1[/SUP] Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

[SUP]2[/SUP] If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
[SUP]3[/SUP] If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
[SUP]4[/SUP] If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
[SUP]6[/SUP] Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
[SUP]7[/SUP] And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
[SUP]8[/SUP] If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
[SUP]9[/SUP] And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
[SUP]10[/SUP] If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
[SUP]11[/SUP] And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
[SUP]12[/SUP] He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
[SUP]13[/SUP] And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.
[SUP]14[/SUP] But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
[SUP]16[/SUP] And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]17[/SUP] And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]18[/SUP] And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with his fist, and he die not, but keepeth his bed:
[SUP]19[/SUP] If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.
[SUP]20[/SUP] And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
[SUP]21[/SUP] Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
[SUP]22[/SUP] If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

[SUP]23[/SUP] And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
[SUP]24[/SUP] Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25[/SUP] Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
[SUP]26[/SUP] And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
[SUP]27[/SUP] And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
[SUP]28[/SUP] If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.
[SUP]29[/SUP] But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.
[SUP]30[/SUP] If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.
[SUP]31[/SUP] Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him.
[SUP]32[/SUP] If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
[SUP]33[/SUP] And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;
[SUP]34[/SUP] The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.
[SUP]35[/SUP] And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead ox also they shall divide.
[SUP]36[/SUP] Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.
 
this goes on for forty chapters you become a debtor to the whole Law of every ordinance including circumcision but the circumcision of the heart is our sign with Jesus and with Jesus these same ten commandments apply but they are of faith not Law , for this we have to look back at history before law like in the begining we see the LORD finished His works and rested on the sabbath day and made it Holy tis has been a long time tradition not of men but of God lets look at the heavenly in job
 
[h=3]Job 1:6
[/h]King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them
[h=3]Job 2:1
[/h]King James Version (KJV)


2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
 
they say this day was on the sabbath but not sure of this but it is the Lords day so this is highly probable although since God is omniexistent and present time might be irrelevant in the heavens

 
Life is a whole lot easier without the law. I can see why some people passionately try to do away with it.
I wondered about that so I looked into it. I had heard how the law was gotten rid of by Christ, and legalistical obedience made the law wrong, and on and on against law. So I decided to find out by checking how the law without Christ worked for people.

We have a bookstore that is famous for having a huge amount of books: Powell's. It has a coffee shop where you can take any book. I gathered every book I could find for days, took them to the coffee shop each day and explored this idea. What an eye opener! The law is a miracle worker it brings contentment, peace, happiness, you name it. This is just the bare bones of the law, for we are given the Holy Spirit, we are given redemption through Christ, we are given the expansion and explanation of law through Christ.

Some of the law in the OT was written to explain how justice and love worked in those days, so it talks about things we don't have as the letter of the law that explains the essence, but the essence of the law is the same today. God also told them that some things were so essential to their living in security (like the sexual laws) that it was better to get rid of people who brought some of these things into their world for it would completely disrupt it. That still holds true today.
 
likwise paul taught on the sabbath so did peter in isaiah the sabbath is observed in the new kingdom and even the millenium reign , so by faith the sabbath is pleasing to the Lord
 
I wondered about that so I looked into it. I had heard how the law was gotten rid of by Christ, and legalistical obedience made the law wrong, and on and on against law. So I decided to find out by checking how the law without Christ worked for people.

We have a bookstore that is famous for having a huge amount of books: Powell's. It has a coffee shop where you can take any book. I gathered every book I could find for days, took them to the coffee shop each day and explored this idea. What an eye opener! The law is a miracle worker it brings contentment, peace, happiness, you name it. This is just the bare bones of the law, for we are given the Holy Spirit, we are given redemption through Christ, we are given the expansion and explanation of law through Christ.

Some of the law in the OT was written to explain how justice and love worked in those days, so it talks about things we don't have as the letter of the law that explains the essence, but the essence of the law is the same today. God also told them that some things were so essential to their living in security (like the sexual laws) that it was better to get rid of people who brought some of these things into their world for it would completely disrupt it. That still holds true today.
yes the law did bring a lot of good attributes but was a mere schoolmaster for the completion that is Christ to bring the full revelation of the Law of God as God intended it from the very beginning even before Eden ,the Law teaches to care for one another , to take care of the earth a lot of good aspects and standards very much needed in todays society , but the law was at a carnal level to mans understanding , so jesus came to teach the true revelation of God's intent towards mankind of an everlasting spiritual promise of our true inheritance.. A law much more magnified without the rituals and much condemnation at the physical rate but rather the condemnation at the spirit level , Heaven or Hell .. what will be chosen life or death.. but my sister i love your zeal for wisdom and knowledge you are a blessing among the brethren ..
 
likwise paul taught on the sabbath so did peter in isaiah the sabbath is observed in the new kingdom and even the millenium reign , so by faith the sabbath is pleasing to the Lord
In many scriptures it says that what Paul did on the Sabbath was go to synagogue. Christ added to scripture about the Sabbath, He said it was made for our benefit. He said the law of love also applied to that day. Christ always honored the Sabbath. It is pleasing to the Lord when we have faith in His words about the Sabbath. There were meetings and discussions about the Lord on the first day of the week that is mentioned in scripture, but the Sabbath is always the Sabbath in scripture.

The law is so many wonderful things! It regulates our life after we confess Christ and belong to Him. It is holy. It acts as a schoolmaster, and we also need the Holy Spirit to work with our schoolmaster, and to obey through the Holy Spirit.
 
[SUP]God creates.....

27
[/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created HE HIM; male and female created HE THEM.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God blessed THEM, and God said unto THEM, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue IT: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And God said, Behold, "I" have given YOU every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to YOU IT shall be for meat.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, "I" have given every green herb for meat: and IT was so.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And God saw every thing that HE had made, and, behold, IT was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day
And on the seventh day God ended HIS work which HE had made; and HE rested on the seventh day from all HIS work which HE had made.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified IT: because that in IT HE had rested from all HIS work which God created and made.

LORD God took out the "man" and put in HIM then Commanded HIM to keep IT and THOU, THEE, THY...

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Lord God took the man, and put HIM into the garden of Eden to dress IT and to keep IT.
[SUP] [/SUP]And the Lord God "commanded" the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden THOU mayest freely eat:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU shalt not eat of IT: for in the day that THOU eatest thereof THOU shalt surely die.

Use of YE imparted by the serpent....

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And HE said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, YE shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the woman said unto the serpent, WE may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, YE shall not eat of IT, neither shall YE touch IT, lest YE die.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the serpent said unto the woman, YE shall not surely die:

Use of I, ME after ...

And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto HIM, Where art THOU?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And HE said, I heard THY voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And HE said, Who told THEE that THOU wast naked? Hast THOU eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded THEE that THOU shouldest not eat?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the man said, The woman whom THOU gavest to be with ME, SHE gave ME of the tree, and I did eat.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that THOU hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled ME, and I did eat.

LORD God establishes new guidelines rendering THOU THEE THY powerless to I ME HE

And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I(I inflicts sorrow and conception) will put enmity between THEE and the woman, and between THY seed and her seed; (I)--->It shall bruise THY(thy thou thee are the words cursed) head, and THOU shalt bruise HIS<---(I) heel.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

[SUP]19 [/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of IT wast THOU taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


Same still applies. Moses knew this

(I)<--(I causes the infliction) am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou shalt have no other gods before me(I is ME).
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Remember the sabbath day, to keep IT holy.(notice no thou, thee, thy)until.....
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not kill.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Thou shalt not steal.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 
Actually the true law of God is truly spiritual not confusing it with the Law of moses for it was good also but did bore wrath against us at one point but now in christ it is the Lawunwritten but in our hearts here is a scripture to give u an idea
 
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
 
Many proffesing christians today say that there was no law before the torah but here is a scripture before to get us started , i ask not because i dont know but because there is a need to study this as a church that the whole body may be educated this scripture shows there was sin and how can sin be imputeth if there is no Law but here it is i believe God's original laws were more than just the ten sinaitic commanents that were introduced but thar God allways had a Law that He upholds that even in eden sin already existed because of satan but lets look
In the older days many commentators considered His word is law but things have changed.
 
Sin is doing anything apart from God's nature which is perfect good, there was only one commandment given before the law and that was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam disobeyed God causing all of humanity to fall from grace, we are fallen and have a carnal nature inherited from Adam. We also inherited the knowledge of good and evil. Cain knew it was evil to kill his brother but he did not care but rejoiced in doing evil and cursed God. So God cursed him. Our carnal nature is against God's nature and so we all die, because without God there is no life. With or with out the law humans know good from evil, and God judges righteously. The law was given to the children of Israel, not to save them, but to reveal more completely the nature of God. Far more humans have existed outside the commandment to follow the law of Moses, than those under the law. Before the revelation of Jesus Christ which showed the complete nature of God, people were judged according to how they responded to this life, did they reject evil and turn to do good, or did they remain in darkness and desire to do evil. The revelation of Jesus Christ is God's eternal light revealed to humanity, people have no excuse today to remain in darkness because God has fully revealed himself in Jesus Christ. God is love and has forgiven humanity all their sins, all he asks is for humanity to turn from evil and follow him in love desiring to do good. That is all God has ever asked of humanity turn from evil and seek to do good (God's will).
Just a thought.
 
Sin is doing anything apart from God's nature which is perfect good, there was only one commandment given before the law and that was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam disobeyed God causing all of humanity to fall from grace, we are fallen and have a carnal nature inherited from Adam. We also inherited the knowledge of good and evil. Cain knew it was evil to kill his brother but he did not care but rejoiced in doing evil and cursed God. So God cursed him. Our carnal nature is against God's nature and so we all die, because without God there is no life. With or with out the law humans know good from evil, and God judges righteously. The law was given to the children of Israel, not to save them, but to reveal more completely the nature of God. Far more humans have existed outside the commandment to follow the law of Moses, than those under the law. Before the revelation of Jesus Christ which showed the complete nature of God, people were judged according to how they responded to this life, did they reject evil and turn to do good, or did they remain in darkness and desire to do evil. The revelation of Jesus Christ is God's eternal light revealed to humanity, people have no excuse today to remain in darkness because God has fully revealed himself in Jesus Christ. God is love and has forgiven humanity all their sins, all he asks is for humanity to turn from evil and follow him in love desiring to do good. That is all God has ever asked of humanity turn from evil and seek to do good (God's will).
Just a thought.


Adam did not disobey God. The man and Thou were commanded not to eat of the tree. Adam did not exist until 2 verses past that point.
 
In the older days many commentators considered His word is law but things have changed.
I don't think one thing about God has changed. We have only to learn the principles that God operates under, and see how every law fits into those, every one. The principles are spiritual, we must translate the principles into our earthly language and fit it to the times we live in. There is a principle of justice for all, of love, of kindness for instance. One of the laws we learn of is how to handle oxen, we don't have oxen but the spiritual principle behind that law is eternal.
 
this goes on for forty chapters you become a debtor to the whole Law of every ordinance including circumcision but the circumcision of the heart is our sign with Jesus and with Jesus these same ten commandments apply but they are of faith not Law , for this we have to look back at history before law like in the begining we see the LORD finished His works and rested on the sabbath day and made it Holy tis has been a long time tradition not of men but of God lets look at the heavenly in job
That is because you are not reading these laws correctly. God is showing these people who live in a world with cruelty and lack of love some ways to add justice, kindness, and love into the life of the people of thousands of years before us. These laws are holy. These laws brought justice. You are reading them as the letter of the law, you are asked to read them as spirit and truth. That does not exclude what we do, for we are to include doing. The doing has to be to obey and love the Lord, not something to purchase God's favor.

The people who sacrificed to idols to get them to be good to them did this kind of thing, and when the Hebrews tried gaining favors from God through the blood instead of as a shadow of Christ, scripture tells us God hated that kind of sacrifice.

The only time we are a debtor to the whole law is when we decide to live without Christ. With Christ we listen to law, we put on Christ so we desire to follow law, but we go to Christ for cleansing and forgiveness. We are not in debt to the whole law, that is for atheist to do.