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C
LOL, you know 'Snail that Greenland used to be green and was able to support an argicultural lifestyle for the Viking settlers, now Greenland is one large ice sheet. Today in certain parts ice sheets have shrunk in others they have expanded, depends where you measure. The concept that carbon dioxide is causing the polar caps to melt is bogus unto the highest order, I don't know how anybody could state such a thing with straight face.
B
I think you are a bit mistaken here. Greenland, from what I've read, was never green. An entire civilization died out because they relied on agriculture. Iceland has always been more green than Greenland.
The first line of wikipedia article: "The history of Greenland is the history of life under extreme Arctic conditions"
The first line of wikipedia article: "The history of Greenland is the history of life under extreme Arctic conditions"
B
Ok...so how should I show what the weather was like in Greenland a couple hundred years ago...should I pull out my corrupt history book? We can't go back in time, but there are many, many reasons to comfortably assert that the weather of Greenland was not very pretty when the vikings were there. Just to note, I don't usually use wiki but its quick, easy to find, and you can always look for more if you want. By the way, how do you know your not wrong. The Bible doesn't say anything about the weather in Greenland specifically and no human is immune to in-fallacy
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C
How do I know? ahhhh because it was named 'Green - land' and it was green, like as in green grass and supported a significant agricultural society, that was until it got too cold, because the whether changed, and we see today that Greenland is not so green anymore and its colder, colder than it has been in the past.
Im no expert myself on this. But a family member of mine has been doing extensive resurch on this. There is a large group of experts that say global warming is not real. And there is alot of evidence that proves this. Now the polllution issue is real. It is , I believe causing alot of our health problems. Im considered the canary, as my dr. calls it. I have to avoid the city ,and going into any polluted enviroment causes me to become very ill. Personally I think we have alot more things coming our way to worry about ,that we have been warned about in the word. So living as God Our Father asks covers respecting all of creation. The most important being following his Son Jesus.
aha, well I haven't got to that part yet. The facts about global warming are true, that the ice is melting etc etc. That is observable. In a few years time no ice will be left in the arctic at certain times of the year, it will be open ocean. Most of the debate revolves around why it is happening and if we have anything to do with it. Whichever opinion you hold, all the data points to the fact that global warming is happening right now.
Well you need to get back into reality Cup of Ruin, here's one story for example:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/earth-hour/the--ice-caps-are--in--trouble-20090324-983y.html
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/earth-hour/the--ice-caps-are--in--trouble-20090324-983y.html
C
The 'Sydney Morning Herald'...LOL, I didn't even bother reading it. How bout I list the hundreds of ice sheets and glaciers that are expanding round the world? I suspect it would not convince you, you have been conditioned to believe a certain paradigm, and it's hard to dismantle that even with facts. if you want to recieve your information from mainstream news outlets, if that's reality for you, I cannot change that.
G
There was a program recently on TV here in my country that was pretty interesting, it revolved around the Earth Summit a while back. It was stated that there are scientist that dispute the "Global warming scenario" and they had evidence to support their views, one interesting fact they produced was that through all the years of collecting temperatures from around the world which showed an increase was in fact misleading as they say it had to do with growing population/cities industry etc...which all these caused an increase in surface temperature, an example is if you take a temperature reading just outside a city and compare it with a reading from inside the city, you will get a huge difference, this they demonstrated with Vegas: the temperature inside the city was 6 degrees hotter...now apparently there is data that has been collected for about 10 years from a satellite that uses infra red and it has shown that the Earth is in fact cooling down. They are launching a new satellite in 2010 which has three different instruments to further verify their claims
"Global Warming" is in fact false..what is actually happening is the North and South poles are in the process of "switching" places!...when this gets into full swing (no pun intended) there will be great diverse climate changes that we only associate with Hollywood.....this sounds absurd so don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself. On a different program a while back I remember seeing this for the first time and this scientist was I think in Hawaii, he was at a huge volcanic cliff face that had multiple layers from lava flow over many years, each layer was from different years or centuries (cannot remember) and what they do is they take a sample from each layer and do tests to read the Earths magnetic field, because what happens is when the lava flows out it rapidly cools down and locks in the Earths magnetic field at that very moment in time...amazing....they have found that over time the Earths magnetic field actually reverses!..so in the not too distant future your compass's North bearing will point to South!
"Global Warming" is in fact false..what is actually happening is the North and South poles are in the process of "switching" places!...when this gets into full swing (no pun intended) there will be great diverse climate changes that we only associate with Hollywood.....this sounds absurd so don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself. On a different program a while back I remember seeing this for the first time and this scientist was I think in Hawaii, he was at a huge volcanic cliff face that had multiple layers from lava flow over many years, each layer was from different years or centuries (cannot remember) and what they do is they take a sample from each layer and do tests to read the Earths magnetic field, because what happens is when the lava flows out it rapidly cools down and locks in the Earths magnetic field at that very moment in time...amazing....they have found that over time the Earths magnetic field actually reverses!..so in the not too distant future your compass's North bearing will point to South!
Cup of Ruin you are most welcome to provide your evidence. Hopefully you are able to produce evidence this time , unlike our past discussions on scientific topics.
I will try to read and examine your evidence with a neutral mind, but I admit my confidence in your abilities to produce credible opinion or scientific evidence is somewhat low, from our past discussions, which revealed that you believe NASA is fake, stars are made of ice, the earth does not revolve around the sun, and that gravity is a myth.
In any scientific field you will hear or read about both sides of the story. But I can't help but think that the wise approach is to err on the side of caution, and that any environmental efforts made can only be good in the long run.
I will try to read and examine your evidence with a neutral mind, but I admit my confidence in your abilities to produce credible opinion or scientific evidence is somewhat low, from our past discussions, which revealed that you believe NASA is fake, stars are made of ice, the earth does not revolve around the sun, and that gravity is a myth.
In any scientific field you will hear or read about both sides of the story. But I can't help but think that the wise approach is to err on the side of caution, and that any environmental efforts made can only be good in the long run.
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C
NASA is under Satanic control, theres no doubt about that. Stars are indeed ice crystals, and the sun revolves around the earth just as the Bible says it does, and I have provided ample scriptual and secular scientific proof of all these issues in my thread 'The Fixed Earth'. Also 'gravity' is a theory, an unproven and much debated theory that even the theorizers themselves stated was an unproven theory, there is no doubt about that.
OK. Heres an expanding glacier;
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF18/1890.html
theres hundreds of examples just like this.
OK. Heres an expanding glacier;
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF18/1890.html
theres hundreds of examples just like this.
There are some exceptions to the rule of course, this glacier was apparently also shrinking while the others were growing up to 1900 AD.
While this example is true, the term global warming in fact does mean global - there are at least 100,000 glaciers in the world, and you claim there are only "hundreds" of examples like this, as supposed proof that global warming is not occuring. Well even 1000 examples is still only 1%, as the other 99% are shrinking? Any other proof? Maybe a plot of the global glacial mass over time showing an increase in mass? Maybe like the plots on this one which uses 300 glaciers I think:
http://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt/
While this example is true, the term global warming in fact does mean global - there are at least 100,000 glaciers in the world, and you claim there are only "hundreds" of examples like this, as supposed proof that global warming is not occuring. Well even 1000 examples is still only 1%, as the other 99% are shrinking? Any other proof? Maybe a plot of the global glacial mass over time showing an increase in mass? Maybe like the plots on this one which uses 300 glaciers I think:
http://nsidc.org/glims/glaciermelt/
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C
OK.
http://www.dailytech.com/Glacier+in+Norway+Growing+Again/article13540
So Norway's Glaciers are growing just like Alaska's, oh that's right there is also a report out suggesting that Global Warming may now make Glaciers grow??? It's true , no kidding, and what makes this even more ridiculous is the amount of time they have actually attempted to measure glaciers for, it's a drop in the ocean, when you look at some of the models there is a great deal of assuming and projecting and forecasting and speculating as to what was, what is now and what will be.
And what is the overall result of the political agenda - TAX, well why would that be? It's like the weather changes and suddenly the government wants to tax us, because the weather changes! How ridiculous, all you can do is laugh really, OK the government steals wealth of hard working people, and calls it tax, everybody knows that, but to introduce a new tribute on changing weather patterns, and claim in the same breath we're responsible, is ludicrous.
http://www.dailytech.com/Glacier+in+Norway+Growing+Again/article13540
So Norway's Glaciers are growing just like Alaska's, oh that's right there is also a report out suggesting that Global Warming may now make Glaciers grow??? It's true , no kidding, and what makes this even more ridiculous is the amount of time they have actually attempted to measure glaciers for, it's a drop in the ocean, when you look at some of the models there is a great deal of assuming and projecting and forecasting and speculating as to what was, what is now and what will be.
And what is the overall result of the political agenda - TAX, well why would that be? It's like the weather changes and suddenly the government wants to tax us, because the weather changes! How ridiculous, all you can do is laugh really, OK the government steals wealth of hard working people, and calls it tax, everybody knows that, but to introduce a new tribute on changing weather patterns, and claim in the same breath we're responsible, is ludicrous.
You're still not getting the point. Showing single cases of glaciers which go against the trend still isn't saying much from a scientific point of view. The website I posted shows a trend over a number of years of some key glacier systems in the world. Is there a similar comparison made for glaciers showing a different story?
This report for example describes the majority of glaciers shrinking in that part, but describes some exceptions as well, but that they are temporary trends:
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/sc...nge-actually-causing-some-us-glaciers-to-grow
If you want to provide a convincing argument you need to provide facts showing that the majority of glaciers or in general have been growing rather than declining, due to temperature.
Below explains how the expanding glaciers are due to increased snow fall and storm frequency, not temperature.
We also have to remember that cooling is a side effect of global warming, producing much colder winters for example than normal in parts of the world as the ocean currents are affected and change. Also, we can't confuse between a global trend and local weather patterns.
http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011
MYTH: Global warming can’t be happening because some glaciers and ice sheets are growing, not shrinking.
FACT: In most parts of the world, the retreat of glaciers has been dramatic. The best available scientific data indicate that Greenland's massive ice sheet is shrinking.
Between 1961 and 1997, the world’s glaciers lost 890 cubic miles of ice. The consensus among scientists is that rising air temperatures are the most important factor behind the retreat of glaciers on a global scale over long time periods. Some glaciers in western Norway, Iceland and New Zealand have been expanding during the past few decades. That expansion is a result of regional increases in storm frequency and snowfall rather than colder temperatures — not at all incompatible with a global warming trend.
In Greenland, a NASA satellite that can measure the ice mass over the whole continent has found that although there is variation from month to month, over the longer term, the ice is disappearing. In fact, there are worrisome signs that melting is accelerating: glaciers are moving into the ocean twice as fast as a decade ago, and, over time, more and more glaciers have started to accelerate. What is most alarming is the prediction, based on model calculations and historical evidence, that an approximately 5.4 degree Fahrenheit increase in local Greenland temperatures will lead to irreversible meltdown and a sea-level rise of over 20 feet. Since the Arctic is warming 2-3 times faster than the global average, this tipping point is not far away.
The only study that has shown increasing ice mass in Greenland only looked at the interior of the ice sheet, not at the edges where melting occurs. This is actually in line with climate model predictions that global warming would lead to a short-term accumulation of ice in the cold interior due to heavier snowfall. (Similarly, scientists have predicted that Antarctica overall will gain ice in the near future due to heavier snowfall.) The scientists who published the study were careful to point out that their results should not be used to conclude that Greenland's ice mass as a whole is growing. In addition, their data suggested that the accumulation of snow in the middle of the continent is likely to decrease over time as global warming continues.
This report for example describes the majority of glaciers shrinking in that part, but describes some exceptions as well, but that they are temporary trends:
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/sc...nge-actually-causing-some-us-glaciers-to-grow
If you want to provide a convincing argument you need to provide facts showing that the majority of glaciers or in general have been growing rather than declining, due to temperature.
Below explains how the expanding glaciers are due to increased snow fall and storm frequency, not temperature.
We also have to remember that cooling is a side effect of global warming, producing much colder winters for example than normal in parts of the world as the ocean currents are affected and change. Also, we can't confuse between a global trend and local weather patterns.
http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1011
MYTH: Global warming can’t be happening because some glaciers and ice sheets are growing, not shrinking.
FACT: In most parts of the world, the retreat of glaciers has been dramatic. The best available scientific data indicate that Greenland's massive ice sheet is shrinking.
Between 1961 and 1997, the world’s glaciers lost 890 cubic miles of ice. The consensus among scientists is that rising air temperatures are the most important factor behind the retreat of glaciers on a global scale over long time periods. Some glaciers in western Norway, Iceland and New Zealand have been expanding during the past few decades. That expansion is a result of regional increases in storm frequency and snowfall rather than colder temperatures — not at all incompatible with a global warming trend.
In Greenland, a NASA satellite that can measure the ice mass over the whole continent has found that although there is variation from month to month, over the longer term, the ice is disappearing. In fact, there are worrisome signs that melting is accelerating: glaciers are moving into the ocean twice as fast as a decade ago, and, over time, more and more glaciers have started to accelerate. What is most alarming is the prediction, based on model calculations and historical evidence, that an approximately 5.4 degree Fahrenheit increase in local Greenland temperatures will lead to irreversible meltdown and a sea-level rise of over 20 feet. Since the Arctic is warming 2-3 times faster than the global average, this tipping point is not far away.
The only study that has shown increasing ice mass in Greenland only looked at the interior of the ice sheet, not at the edges where melting occurs. This is actually in line with climate model predictions that global warming would lead to a short-term accumulation of ice in the cold interior due to heavier snowfall. (Similarly, scientists have predicted that Antarctica overall will gain ice in the near future due to heavier snowfall.) The scientists who published the study were careful to point out that their results should not be used to conclude that Greenland's ice mass as a whole is growing. In addition, their data suggested that the accumulation of snow in the middle of the continent is likely to decrease over time as global warming continues.
And what happens due to all this ice melting? Obviously the sea levels will rise causing problems for people on coastal areas and islands. It's fine to say that it's been happening for ages, but obviously we haven't been as big a world population as we are now, so it's a little bit more concerning.
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