Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Spokenpassage]

Hi Spokenpassage,

Please understand that I simply copied 'be persuaded', 'come to trust' from your post

Notice that is the definition of Peithô. Also added the definition of faith below that as well, in case you get confused and repost what I said just like this.

 

[Spokenpassage]

This is how I am understanding your post:

work of faith = the deed of: to believe.

work of sanctification = the deed of: to make holy.

Not understanding what you are asking. Please rephrase.

...

To act in faith: I did that because I trust God.

Good deeds of the Spirit: fruits of works done in conjunction with the Spirit.

....

Please, I am sorry. I am not understanding your question....

I had to use a question to understand what you were saying to be honest...

So you do believe that faith activates grace, which in turn achieves salvation through Christ alone, making one saved without works correct? After the believer is saved, he bears fruits according to the Spirit right?

 

[cfultz3]

Notice that is the definition of Peithô. Also added the definition of faith below that as well, in case you get confused and repost what I said just like this.

πίστεως = Pistis (It's from Peithô, "Persuade, to be persuaded.") - properly persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith

Whatever the word you are using, it still stands: faith is the noun of 'to believe'. Perhaps I was confused, silly me

 

[cfultz3]

I had to use a question to understand what you were saying to be honest...

So you do believe that faith activates grace, which in turn achieves salvation through Christ alone, making one saved without works correct? After the believer is saved, he bears fruits according to the Spirit right?

Yes....the only deed (work) required for salvation is ACTIVE (hearkening unto the Lord upon His path, not possessing a stubborn heart, coming to know His ways) faith.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Whatever the word you are using, it still stands: faith is the noun of 'to believe'. Perhaps I was confused, silly me

Since faith is a noun, and to 'believe' is a verb. Does God give us an action or a something? This is the conflict of saying that faith is a work, which actually is belief is a work. Faith is a gift. If I am confusing, I'm probably not getting the message across.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Yes....the only deed (work) required for salvation is ACTIVE (hearkening unto the Lord upon His path, not possessing a stubborn heart, coming to know His ways) faith.

No no, you said faith is the noun of 'to believe'. How then can you say it's a work when a work is action, and faith is a noun after an action?

Hearing -> Persuasion -> Belief -> Faith

You divided faith and belief, then counted them the same?

 

[cfultz3]

Since faith is a noun, and to 'believe' is a verb. Does God give us an action or a something? This is the conflict of saying that faith is a work, which actually is belief is a work. Faith is a gift. If I am confusing, I'm probably not getting the message across.

For one to be the noun 'thief', he must perform the verb 'to steal'.

For one to be the noun 'believer', he must perform the verb 'to believe'.

Salvation through faith is certainly a gracious gift from God. Nothing we did to bring it about, but that all glory may go to Him for our salvation (deliverance from death).

 

[Spokenpassage]

For one to be the noun 'thief', he must perform the verb 'to steal'.

For one to be the noun 'believer', he must perform the verb 'to believe'.

Salvation through faith is certainly a gracious gift from God. Nothing we did to bring it about, but that all glory may go to Him for our salvation (deliverance from death).

Then you agree...

Faith is not a work, but belief is.

A thief is not an action, but stealing is.

A believer is not an verb, but believing is.

See where I am going. To say that faith is a work is incorrect, rather active faith is aftermath (if you will) of the work of belief, which is entirely from God.

 

[cfultz3]

No no, you said faith is the noun of 'to believe'. How then can you say it's a work when a work is action, and faith is a noun after an action?

Bless you

One's persuasion (system of faith) is the noun of the verb 'to believe'. When one performs the verb 'to believe', then they create a system call their belief (faith system).

Hearing -> Persuasion -> Belief -> Faith

You divided faith and belief, then counted them the same?

You are misunderstanding me. I did not divide, perhaps I failed at explaining.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Bless you

One's persuasion (system of faith) is the noun of the verb 'to believe'. When one performs the verb 'to believe', then they create a system call their belief (faith system).


You are misunderstanding me. I did not divide, perhaps I failed at explaining.

I hope you're not thinking I'm going mad dog on ya, just conversing on what a 'work' actually is concerning faith.

 

[Hoffco]

Not suggesting deception..................but, I see you are becoming agitated with the conversation.........and it's my supper time...................There is no Scripture I can find that states "faith/belief" is a WORK................maybe you have one......that specifically states this?

Anyway, God bless.........

Please study Jh.6:29-30. and the rest of the chapter. "Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you..." Then they said to Him "What shall we do, that we may WORK the works of God?" Jesus..said.."this is the work of God, that YOU BELIEVE in Him whom He sent." ... ( show us a sign, )we may... BELIEVE you ... Jesus explains, v.35... " I am the bread of life. He who COMES to Me shall never hunger, and he who BELIEVES in Me shall never thirst." ...v,40... "every one who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;"... v. 44,No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws(force) him;..."...v63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." v.64"...some of you do not believe...." Obviously believing in Jesus is not a "spectator sport"; it is a living relationship with Jesus that involves a lot of WORK, which is the gift of God , a "work of God" as well as a LABOR or man. Love to all Hoffco

 

[cfultz3]

Then you agree...

Faith is not a work, but belief is.

A thief is not an action, but stealing is.

A believer is not an verb, but believing is.

See where I am going. To say that faith is a work is incorrect, rather active faith is aftermath (if you will) of the work of belief, which is entirely from God.

Faith/belief is the noun of the verb 'to believe'

A thief is not an action, but it is the noun which describes the verb 'to steal'.

How can one be a 'president' if he does not 'run for president'?

How can one be something without performing a verb?

I am sorry, but this is the best I can describe the relationship between a noun and its verb.

 

[cfultz3]

I hope you're not thinking I'm going mad dog on ya, just conversing on what a 'work' actually is concerning faith.

I do not think that at all.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Faith/belief is the noun of the verb 'to believe'

A thief is not an action, but it is the noun which describes the verb 'to steal'.

How can one be a 'president' if he does not 'run for president'?

How can one be something without perform a verb?

I am sorry, but this is the best I can describe the relationship between a noun and its verb.

Your doing good, I just don't understand why you stick to saying faith is a work. Maybe it's on my end, but in the end I see what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, do you have confidence? Notice I said 'have' which is a possession of faith (noun). To love is a work, to believe is a work, to hope is a work.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Your doing good, I just don't understand why you stick to saying faith is a work. Maybe it's on my end, but in the end I see what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, do you have confidence? Notice I said 'have' which is a possession of faith (noun).

Better edited this way I think

 

[cfultz3]

Your doing good, I just don't understand why you stick to saying faith is a work. Maybe it's on my end, but in the end I see what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, do you have confidence? Notice I said 'have' which is a possession of faith (noun). To love is a work, to believe is a work, to hope is a work.

In the same sense as you say, "To love is a work, to believe is a work, to hope is a work", I also say, "to believe" is a work (a deed). Because, without performing the deed, then one cannot be in possession of a title. For one to be a believer, they must first perform 'to believe'.

OIC, the word 'faith' can be a noun or a verb. As a noun, 'faith' means one's religious system (my faith is Christian). As a verb, it means, 'to place confidence into someone, something' (I have confidence in Jesus).

 

[Spokenpassage]

In the same sense as you say, "To love is a work, to believe is a work, to hope is a work", I also say, "to believe" is a work (a deed). Because, without performing the deed, then one cannot be in possession of a title. For one to be a believer, they must first perform 'to believe'.

OIC, the word 'faith' can be a noun or a verb. As a noun, 'faith' means one's religious system, as a verb, it means, 'to place confidence into someone, something'.

Above your post I edited it. I took off that last sentence.

Anyways, when it comes to faith and works in the bible, it's not the same. It's true faith can be confidence, or a putting of faith into something. When I say faith is not a work in pretty much saying it's something we cannot produce on our own to which we attain salvation. Faith in the bible refers to this too, otherwise James wouldn't put the word faith in proximity of the word works, same with Paul. Overall you understand what I'm saying right?

 

[cfultz3]

Your doing good, I just don't understand why you stick to saying faith is a work. Maybe it's on my end, but in the end I see what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, do you have confidence? Notice I said 'have' which is a possession of faith (noun). To love is a work, to believe is a work, to hope is a work.

After reading this post again, I see that you are understanding what I am saying. 'To love' is a deed. 'To believe' is a deed. 'To hope' is a deed.

Before we are lovers, we have to love.
Before we are believers, we have to believe.
Before we can hope, we have to be persuaded.

 

[cfultz3]

Above your post I edited it. I took off that last sentence.

Anyways, when it comes to faith and works in the bible, it's not the same. It's true faith can be confidence, or a putting of faith into something. When I say faith is not a work in pretty much saying it's something we cannot produce on our own to which we attain salvation. Faith in the bible refers to this too, otherwise James wouldn't put the word faith in proximity of the word works, same with Paul. Overall you understand what I'm saying right?

Yes, I do understand your point of view.

Consider the follow:

If it is not us putting confidence in the Son, then who is putting that confidence in Him?

 

[cfultz3]

Above your post I edited it. I took off that last sentence.

No problem....just ignore any replies from me containing it.