Talking against the law is dangerous
- Thread starter just-me
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Thank you for sharing your impressions. I haven’t been looking for an angle that would deviate from our Father’s divine plan completed by Christ Jesus, His Son. Speaking of alternatives I had to chuckle a little for that “seems to be a different “angle” to be righteous that doesn’t include what our Savior’s Father instituted so that His Son would arrive to rescue us in due season. I agree that it is wrong to mix faith that is spiritual, with works that is not. I think, through God’s grace He gave us the law as an avenue to His Son, our Creator. I know that there is no mention of the law in this “alternative” that you define. Do you agree that Jesus actually gave the law to Moses because He is the creator of all things including the law? Colossians 1:15-18
So if I am reading you right, after faith comes through Christ, we can get rid of what our Father in heaven ordained before Christ, even though His Son said that every word of His Father was for us to live by. That’s a clear-cut separation. I suppose then we could quote Luke 12:51-53a to prove this alternative of yours.
51 “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father;”
Forgive me for being facetious.
Ya, I agree, becaue that’s what I said before.
The principle Jesus endorses to the young man is to prioritize between the physical things and this life, and the spiritual things from God, because “no one comes unto the Father but by” Christ. I don’t think that’s very hard to understand. Jesus never said to ignore what His Father had said to Moses, and the Prophets.
I like the scripture you present. They are the inspired word of God, and the reminder is beneficial for me.
The works of the law “alone” never played a part in our holiness, perfection, and righteousness. Those had to come with a sincere heart in order for God to accept the sacrifice. It’s the same through the sacrifice of Jesus.
Now to answer your last question “why would anybody then turn back to the law to judge oneself according to deeds of the law?” I surmise that you clearly believe the law is behind a Christian and is in the past, never to be recognized again in any way shape or form. So I will quote Paul so his words can answer your question, and you can ”judge” for yourself, not according to the “deeds of the law” but according to what you think about the law on a very personal basis, just between you and Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:5-9 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I’m very saddened that you are unable to see the Spiritual principles in the law God gave to Moses before Christ.
John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Of course these words of Jesus don’t apply in your life because it was Old Testament. May God bless you with wisdom, and understanding.
So if I am reading you right, after faith comes through Christ, we can get rid of what our Father in heaven ordained before Christ, even though His Son said that every word of His Father was for us to live by. That’s a clear-cut separation. I suppose then we could quote Luke 12:51-53a to prove this alternative of yours.
51 “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
[SUP]52 [/SUP]For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father;”
Forgive me for being facetious.
Ya, I agree, becaue that’s what I said before.
The principle Jesus endorses to the young man is to prioritize between the physical things and this life, and the spiritual things from God, because “no one comes unto the Father but by” Christ. I don’t think that’s very hard to understand. Jesus never said to ignore what His Father had said to Moses, and the Prophets.
I like the scripture you present. They are the inspired word of God, and the reminder is beneficial for me.
The works of the law “alone” never played a part in our holiness, perfection, and righteousness. Those had to come with a sincere heart in order for God to accept the sacrifice. It’s the same through the sacrifice of Jesus.
Now to answer your last question “why would anybody then turn back to the law to judge oneself according to deeds of the law?” I surmise that you clearly believe the law is behind a Christian and is in the past, never to be recognized again in any way shape or form. So I will quote Paul so his words can answer your question, and you can ”judge” for yourself, not according to the “deeds of the law” but according to what you think about the law on a very personal basis, just between you and Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:5-9 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I’m very saddened that you are unable to see the Spiritual principles in the law God gave to Moses before Christ.
John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Of course these words of Jesus don’t apply in your life because it was Old Testament. May God bless you with wisdom, and understanding.
I take it then that you believe all of Jesus' teachings, before He died, are all historical? Some would say that definition is hysterical, but I say that statement could not be farther from the truth, and is very sad. His testimony of salvation was also given before His death.
Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
So are the we supposed to believe, by your statement, that Jesus taught us to forget all His Father has ever said, and go by His rules that make His Father's spiritual ordinances invalid? I read the Bible as Jesus came to rightly define the words of His Father so we could see the relevance of the truth, for Jesus and God are a unit of "One."
John 5:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true
John 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Judaizers don't believe Christ Jesus is the true Messiah. That is a label given to a person with a Pharisaical mind and heart. Now a Pharisaical mind will oppose anything God has every said according to their self made doctrine. They seek their own righteousness by the law (not God's law) that they established for themselves. Ring a bell?
John 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Romans 9:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Galatians 3:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Here is a crux of sorts. If we throw the law away, and make it void in our hearts, according to what Paul has written, the faith required to establish the law doesn't exist either.
Please stop for a second and think.... Am I like the Pharisees?
Or a follower of Christ?
1 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
So are the we supposed to believe, by your statement, that Jesus taught us to forget all His Father has ever said, and go by His rules that make His Father's spiritual ordinances invalid? I read the Bible as Jesus came to rightly define the words of His Father so we could see the relevance of the truth, for Jesus and God are a unit of "One."
John 5:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true
John 8:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Judaizers don't believe Christ Jesus is the true Messiah. That is a label given to a person with a Pharisaical mind and heart. Now a Pharisaical mind will oppose anything God has every said according to their self made doctrine. They seek their own righteousness by the law (not God's law) that they established for themselves. Ring a bell?
John 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Romans 9:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Galatians 3:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Here is a crux of sorts. If we throw the law away, and make it void in our hearts, according to what Paul has written, the faith required to establish the law doesn't exist either.
Please stop for a second and think.... Am I like the Pharisees?
Or a follower of Christ?
1 Corinthians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
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I'm not advocating that the law has changed. I am advocating that I am no longer under the condemnation of the law because the Lord Jesus has changed me and now I am dead to the law. The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law... But thanks be to God which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:56-57)
But if I attempt to resurrect that which has been destroyed I make myself a transgressor.
If I attempt to use the law in a secondary purpose I am no longer dead to the law but I have become open again to condemnation and death. Its much better to be in Christ where there is no condemnation.
But if I attempt to resurrect that which has been destroyed I make myself a transgressor.
If I attempt to use the law in a secondary purpose I am no longer dead to the law but I have become open again to condemnation and death. Its much better to be in Christ where there is no condemnation.
You make a good point here.
The old testament perfectly describes how to be blessed by God.
The only problem was that not very many understood. It took the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus and the giving of the Holy Spirit along with the expounding by Paul in order for us, common people, to be saved and understand, coming to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
But really, like you are pointing out, if we had the mind of Christ we would understand the OT perfectly and see the spiritual precepts contained in there.
There is no way ever that I would have ever understood without the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul. I would be just like all the other stubborn Jews thinking how smart and strong I was, thanking God that He didn't make me like the common sinners... Thank God for Jesus...
The old testament perfectly describes how to be blessed by God.
The only problem was that not very many understood. It took the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus and the giving of the Holy Spirit along with the expounding by Paul in order for us, common people, to be saved and understand, coming to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
But really, like you are pointing out, if we had the mind of Christ we would understand the OT perfectly and see the spiritual precepts contained in there.
There is no way ever that I would have ever understood without the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul. I would be just like all the other stubborn Jews thinking how smart and strong I was, thanking God that He didn't make me like the common sinners... Thank God for Jesus...
I agree with your statements, but I would say them a little different like "dead by, or through the law."
The other one would be "if I attempt to resurrect that (being sin) which has been destroyed, I make myself a transgressor, for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4a for "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Where I think the law has a double purpose, is because of this next verse, but I can understand what you are saying about the faith you have.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, ***we establish the law.
As I read the above, I think about these next 2 scriptures, while not thinking negatively of your statements. I just think it goes further than what you describe. Faith doesn't negate the law even though some will say that after faith the "schoolmaster" is abolished. That is a contradiction to the complete doctrine in the Bible that Paul teaches.
Hebrews 11:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Romans 8:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
***If the law is established by our faith, then to get rid of the law by the doctrine that we like, faith has nothing left to establish, and faith without works is dead being alone. (James 2:17) With this said, I'm not advocating that we are to abide by the law with the carnal mind of the physical, or the flesh, I'm saying to establish the law by faith in the Spirit of God who gave us both the law and faith.
Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
God bless you my friend. To some the above may look like scripture contradicts itself, but we know better.
The other one would be "if I attempt to resurrect that (being sin) which has been destroyed, I make myself a transgressor, for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4a for "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Where I think the law has a double purpose, is because of this next verse, but I can understand what you are saying about the faith you have.
Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31[/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, ***we establish the law.
As I read the above, I think about these next 2 scriptures, while not thinking negatively of your statements. I just think it goes further than what you describe. Faith doesn't negate the law even though some will say that after faith the "schoolmaster" is abolished. That is a contradiction to the complete doctrine in the Bible that Paul teaches.
Hebrews 11:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For by it the elders obtained a good report.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Romans 8:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Habakkuk 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
***If the law is established by our faith, then to get rid of the law by the doctrine that we like, faith has nothing left to establish, and faith without works is dead being alone. (James 2:17) With this said, I'm not advocating that we are to abide by the law with the carnal mind of the physical, or the flesh, I'm saying to establish the law by faith in the Spirit of God who gave us both the law and faith.
Galatians 2:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
God bless you my friend. To some the above may look like scripture contradicts itself, but we know better.
right and amen because the law gives life look here
[h=3]The Holy Spirit Gives Life[/h]8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.
[h=3]The Holy Spirit Gives Life[/h]8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.
hmm personaly i feel that one is trying to reach and understand but to understand that God having to give up his one and only son was in no means taking lightly by the Farther.
The earth shook and the veils tor open many people think thats it where saved by the that one act ,, WELL YES YOU MAYBE IF YOU COME TO THE LORD and you laden becomes light but not forgetting that some dont even know they drenched in sin.
or some are ignorant to the law that is written on there hearts ?
I think they do know in there heart that something is a drift. I feel this strongly and that i feel falls under everything from character (personality) greed hate jealousy on and on i feel strongly that there is absolutely no way that God would just let the death of son Go so easy and say that it your saved because of this one act.
Can you see this ? (yes) (no)
Peter and John Before the Council
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
The earth shook and the veils tor open many people think thats it where saved by the that one act ,, WELL YES YOU MAYBE IF YOU COME TO THE LORD and you laden becomes light but not forgetting that some dont even know they drenched in sin.
or some are ignorant to the law that is written on there hearts ?
I think they do know in there heart that something is a drift. I feel this strongly and that i feel falls under everything from character (personality) greed hate jealousy on and on i feel strongly that there is absolutely no way that God would just let the death of son Go so easy and say that it your saved because of this one act.
Can you see this ? (yes) (no)
Peter and John Before the Council
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
I dont know if you are a Judaizant or not but i know this what evr you think you know God knows more and for all i know i could still be a Judaical because i have looked up judaizant in the dictionary and i can not find it.
But are we Jews hmm maybe are ancestors where from Israel i believe and the death of the son on the cross was not taken very lightly look here
[SIZE=+3]Isaiah
[/SIZE][SIZE=+2]Chapter 58[/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]True Religion[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
1 Shout the message! Don't hold back.
Say to my people Israel:
You've sinned! You've turned against the LORD.
2 Day after day, you worship him
and seem eager to learn his teachings.
You act like a nation that wants to do right
by obeying his laws.
You ask him about justice,
and say you enjoy worshiping the LORD. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 You wonder why the LORD pays no attention
when you go without eating and act humble.
But on those same days that you give up eating,
you think only of yourselves
and abuse your workers.
4 You even get angry and ready to fight.
No wonder God won't listen to your prayers!
5 Do you think the LORD wants you to give up eating
and to act as humble as a bent-over bush?
Or to dress in sackcloth and sit in ashes?
Is this really what he wants on a day of worship?
6 I'll tell you what it really means to worship the LORD.
Remove the chains of prisoners who are chained unjustly.
Free those who are abused!
7 Share your food with everyone who is hungry;
share your home with the poor and homeless.
Give clothes to those in need;
don't turn away your relatives.
8 Then your light will shine like the dawning sun,
and you will quickly be healed.
Your honesty will protect you as you advance,
and the glory of the LORD
will defend you from behind.
9 When you beg the LORD for help,
he will answer, "Here I am!"
Don't mistreat others or falsely accuse them
or say something cruel.
10 Give your food to the hungry and care for the homeless.
Then your light will shine in the dark;
your darkest hour will be like the noonday sun.
11 The LORD will always guide you
and provide good things to eat
when you are in the desert.
He will make you healthy.
You will be like a garden that has plenty of water
or like a stream that never runs dry.
12 You will rebuild those houses left in ruins for years;
you will be known as a builder and repairer
of city walls and streets.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]13 But first, you must start respecting the Sabbath
as a joyful day of worship.
You must stop doing and saying whatever you please
on this special day.
14 Then you will truly enjoy knowing the LORD.
He will let you rule from the highest mountains
and bless you with the land of your ancestor Jacob.
The LORD has spoken! [/FONT]
But are we Jews hmm maybe are ancestors where from Israel i believe and the death of the son on the cross was not taken very lightly look here
[SIZE=+3]Isaiah
[/SIZE][SIZE=+2]Chapter 58[/SIZE] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]True Religion[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
1 Shout the message! Don't hold back.
Say to my people Israel:
You've sinned! You've turned against the LORD.
2 Day after day, you worship him
and seem eager to learn his teachings.
You act like a nation that wants to do right
by obeying his laws.
You ask him about justice,
and say you enjoy worshiping the LORD. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 You wonder why the LORD pays no attention
when you go without eating and act humble.
But on those same days that you give up eating,
you think only of yourselves
and abuse your workers.
4 You even get angry and ready to fight.
No wonder God won't listen to your prayers!
5 Do you think the LORD wants you to give up eating
and to act as humble as a bent-over bush?
Or to dress in sackcloth and sit in ashes?
Is this really what he wants on a day of worship?
6 I'll tell you what it really means to worship the LORD.
Remove the chains of prisoners who are chained unjustly.
Free those who are abused!
7 Share your food with everyone who is hungry;
share your home with the poor and homeless.
Give clothes to those in need;
don't turn away your relatives.
8 Then your light will shine like the dawning sun,
and you will quickly be healed.
Your honesty will protect you as you advance,
and the glory of the LORD
will defend you from behind.
9 When you beg the LORD for help,
he will answer, "Here I am!"
Don't mistreat others or falsely accuse them
or say something cruel.
10 Give your food to the hungry and care for the homeless.
Then your light will shine in the dark;
your darkest hour will be like the noonday sun.
11 The LORD will always guide you
and provide good things to eat
when you are in the desert.
He will make you healthy.
You will be like a garden that has plenty of water
or like a stream that never runs dry.
12 You will rebuild those houses left in ruins for years;
you will be known as a builder and repairer
of city walls and streets.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]13 But first, you must start respecting the Sabbath
as a joyful day of worship.
You must stop doing and saying whatever you please
on this special day.
14 Then you will truly enjoy knowing the LORD.
He will let you rule from the highest mountains
and bless you with the land of your ancestor Jacob.
The LORD has spoken! [/FONT]
This is something I don't believe any of us should argue, we all know that our own righteousness is as filthy rags. We all know we fall short and need that unmerited favor, grace, to be saved. We can't argue that Jesus didn't give commands, we can't argue that we will never stumble, all of that information has clearly been presented.
I guess I just don't see how there is division over the topic of law when to me it seems like we all have a common knowledge. I don't know if there is a misunderstanding or what. We know we can't save ourselves yet we are told to live as if we are saved, set apart, a holy people...not every believer is always going to be a shining example of Christian, but we ARE supposed to try. I don't think many people on either side would argue that what we do isn't going to save us.
I guess I just don't see how there is division over the topic of law when to me it seems like we all have a common knowledge. I don't know if there is a misunderstanding or what. We know we can't save ourselves yet we are told to live as if we are saved, set apart, a holy people...not every believer is always going to be a shining example of Christian, but we ARE supposed to try. I don't think many people on either side would argue that what we do isn't going to save us.
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And finally my brothers and sisters
Matthew 5:17-20
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
The fulfilment of the law
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
so yes to preach the law and not know the reasons quite clearly why they where given is a big no no
Matthew 5:17-20
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
The fulfilment of the law
[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
so yes to preach the law and not know the reasons quite clearly why they where given is a big no no
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hmm good question i think that one could take a while, but as you know its not for us to judge where God is in there life, like you carnt say he is not deserving of Gods love we are called to encourage people to repent and be saved, i dunno to be honest is my honest opinion it depends i think if they choose the lord or not, i dont think people who already saved sways that thought like oh ok someone might say erm people are unaware or joe blogs got hit by bus he didnt have time to repent , but we have to remember that some things don't actually get talked about by children of god so is it important to salvation ? .
I Think it is if you know your using it has a tool to mislead or cause division , because as well you know many can not come to an agreement of the law or maybe there just set one aspect of the law and not all of its law ,, the best answer i have for you IS God judges the motives,
There are those though who know no better so we do have to be careful who we falsely accuse of purposly try to devide with the law,
Context
For God So Loved
16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.…
here again we again again say that his one and only son did not die for nothing or suffer the burdens of the world for nothing,
he did this for you and i to have some chance of making it the farther knows what hes doing make no mistake .
I Think it is if you know your using it has a tool to mislead or cause division , because as well you know many can not come to an agreement of the law or maybe there just set one aspect of the law and not all of its law ,, the best answer i have for you IS God judges the motives,
There are those though who know no better so we do have to be careful who we falsely accuse of purposly try to devide with the law,
Context
For God So Loved
16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.…
here again we again again say that his one and only son did not die for nothing or suffer the burdens of the world for nothing,
he did this for you and i to have some chance of making it the farther knows what hes doing make no mistake .