Talking against the law is dangerous

[Zinzerio]

Now that you Injuries are cured, and you able to pray for me, which is actually fantastic.

Do not break your head with the Bible, God never Intended Moses law for the Gentiles, but it warned about an apostasy in which the pure doctrine of Grace will be contaminated.
So if you a Judaizant and more if you charging tithing to your fellows and putting it in your pockets, then ....REPENT!

Maybe this is why you hate me so much.

Ok i have to re-quote you on this you say that the law of moses was just for the jews ? and so i will ask you a question to make you think about this ideology that you have.

first we know that Satan sinned in heaven and he was booted out for disobeying God yes no ? (this was long befor the jews walked the planet and we know that Adam and eve also sinned in the garden so that can only mean one thing the law has always been and it will always be its that simple

and here i will show you one more thing which the law of the holy spirit
Romans 8

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

The Holy Spirit Gives Life

8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.

so now we know for sure that the holy spirit and the farther and the son has always been

 

[Brother_Don]

Titus 1:15-16, Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 2:11-13, For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;

 

[just-me]

Ezekiel 20:18-26 “I said to their children in the wilderness, ‘Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers or keep their ordinances or defile yourselves with their idols. I am the Lord your God; walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and observe them. Sanctify My sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’ But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness. But I withdrew My hand and acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. Also I swore to them in the wilderness that I would scatter them among the nations and disperse them among the lands, because they had not observed My ordinances, but had rejected My statutes and had profaned My sabbaths, and their eyes were on the idols of their fathers. I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live; and I pronounced them unclean because of their gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire so that I might make them desolate, in order that they might know that I am the Lord.”’

That’s Biblical, and it did come from God. It was not the law God gave to Moses. It can be related to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God gives up on those who are determined to keep sinning. 2 scriptures come to mind.
Romans 1:28-31 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I cannot speak against this judgment of God either, same as the laws He gave to Moses.

I just left the highlighted things you quoted as to shorten the post. Hope you don’t mind.

Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

I will however leave this in, because it is referring to the law God gave to Moses, and not the law of sin and death that I previously commented to.
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

1 Timothy 1:5-But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderersand immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. Sorr

Throw way the law and you are without the law. Being minus the law is lawless, likened unto not having a place to live makes one homeless. Break the law is also being lawless, for eventually the law will catch up to you and in judgment, find you guilty. You may not think it, but the “fruit of the spirit is Old Testament mostly in the law Gad gave to Moses. The reason there is no law against that is because the law is not against itself, it is then for the lawless. So if we throw away the law, because we are claiming salvation, then we are also throwing away the New Testament that confirms the law, and then we are right back to being lawless. God came to change us, not His words. Isn’t it nice that God sees our heart?

 

[Brother_Don]

1John 3:2-3 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure. 3:24, And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

 

[ivanc0]

Ok i have to re-quote you on this you say that the law of moses was just for the jews ? and so i will ask you a question to make you think about this ideology that you have.

first we know that Satan sinned in heaven and he was booted out for disobeying God yes no ? (this was long befor the jews walked the planet and we know that Adam and eve also sinned in the garden so that can only mean one thing the law has always been and it will always be its that simple

and here i will show you one more thing which the law of the holy spirit
Romans 8

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

The Holy Spirit Gives Life

8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the lI am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.

so now we know for sure that the holy spirit and the farther and the son has always been

Thanks lots for your post, now let me explain this.

Satan failed to obey Gods will. Not Moses law.
now
about the scripture:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death

My friend, this is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.

Jesus has set us FREE from the law of sin "Moses Law" and now we could if we want, live the "law of grace" (the law of the Holy spirit)

I do not Understand how is that you could not Undestand this after so many scriptures of Paul, about the "law=moses law" and the Grace.

Read again acts 15:5 and 10

Acts 15:5

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Acts 15:10

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?


Don't you see the coherence of Ideas?

 

[Zinzerio]

Ok i have to re-quote you on this you say that the law of moses was just for the jews ? and so i will ask you a question to make you think about this ideology that you have.

first we know that Satan sinned in heaven and he was booted out for disobeying God yes no ? (this was long befor the jews walked the planet and we know that Adam and eve also sinned in the garden so that can only mean one thing the law has always been and it will always be its that simple

and here i will show you one more thing which the law of the holy spirit
Romans 8

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

The Holy Spirit Gives Life

8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.

so now we know for sure that the holy spirit and the farther and the son has always been

i will explain this Romans eight on how i see it.

free from the law of sin means to you are free from Satan if you obey Gods law you are free from condemnation of the law which comes from Satan yes no For god so loved the world that he sent his one and only son and his son did not come to condemn the world but to be its saviour.

 

[Zinzerio]

Thanks lots for your post, now let me explain this.

Satan failed to obey Gods will. Not Moses law.
now
about the scripture:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death

My friend, this is exactly what I have trying to tell you.

Jesus has set us FREE from the law of sin "Moses Law" and now we could if we want, live the "law of grace" (the law of the Holy spirit)

I do not Understand how is that you could not Undestand this after so many scriptures of Paul, about the "law=moses law" and the Grace.

Read again acts 15:5 and 10

Acts 15:5

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Acts 15:10

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?


Don't you see the coherence of Ideas?

i will remind of one of the commandments and that is to love your neighbour
which also mean to love your farther, with all your heart Satan did not do this.
He broke as you put it Gods will but that is also one of gods commandments and also this grace come from being a child of God and loving your farther with all your heart and to love your farther with all your heart is to put away your old and become a new creation, if you can show God this then grace will be with you because Satan can not harm one of Gods children who continues not to sin as yopu start to beat all the sins that you may be tempted to do you also draw closer to the lord. Resist the devil and he will flee

 

[just-me]

Ok i have to re-quote you on this you say that the law of moses was just for the jews ? and so i will ask you a question to make you think about this ideology that you have.

first we know that Satan sinned in heaven and he was booted out for disobeying God yes no ? (this was long befor the jews walked the planet and we know that Adam and eve also sinned in the garden so that can only mean one thing the law has always been and it will always be its that simple

and here i will show you one more thing which the law of the holy spirit
Romans 8

New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

The Holy Spirit Gives Life

8 Those who belong to Christ Jesus are no longer under God’s sentence. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I am now controlled by the law of the Holy Spirit. That law gives me life because of what Christ Jesus has done. It has set me free from the law of sin that brings death.

so now we know for sure that the holy spirit and the farther and the son has always been

AMEN brother. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord and He will lift you up. (James 4:10) Why on earth does scripture say that the Lord will lift you up? What for, and what from? If we are saved, that's all that matters right? But saved from what?

AAHH. We are lifted up out from being under the law. We are changed into a new creature through Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

"Are become." Interesting phase isn't it? are... present tense.....become.... future tense. We now as believers can establish the law, through faith, as it was meant to be for God's children, because we see it as beneficial by His Holy Spirit.

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
James 2:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[ivanc0]

i will explain this Romans eight on how i see it.

free from the law of sin means to you are free from Satan if you obey Gods law you are free from condemnation of the law which comes from Satan yes no For god so loved the world that he sent his one and only son and his son did not come to condemn the world but to be its saviour.

There is not law of satan, at least in the bible, the law of sin that brings death is the "law of Moses"
and the law of the spirit that brings life, is the grace and the hope of resurrection. this came thanks to Jesus.
so is Saying that before Jesus we were all dead, and in sin because is impossible to live the law of moses with out breaking all the rules.
But Jesus made us Free of that law, gave us the law of Grace and hope of resurrection.

Where you have learn your bible? What denomination you follow?

Myself I have studied, catholics, Baptist, Pentecostals, Mormon, adventist and after lots of meditation and discussions with this people, I finally got the understanding of why this people have so different teachings.

 

[just-me]

i will explain this Romans eight on how i see it.

free from the law of sin means to you are free from Satan if you obey Gods law you are free from condemnation of the law which comes from Satan yes no For god so loved the world that he sent his one and only son and his son did not come to condemn the world but to be its saviour.

Yes. The law of sin and death is exactly opposite of the law of God.

God's law is fulfilled through Christ. The law of sin and death is fulfilled through the fleshly, and carnal mind

 

[john832]

Your understanding is the veil.

The law always had one purpose. There is no secondary purpose.

The law was designed to show the whole world their need for a Saviour.

And here all this time...

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I thought it was to teach me how to love God and how to love my neighbor...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Law converts...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The Law protects us and keeps us from terrible consequences...

Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Once we are saved we can see what the Lord Jesus has done in us by the Holy Spirit to cause us to walk in His Statutes and obey His Law. But if we come out from under His Covering of Grace, even for a moment, to attempt to Keep His Law in our own strength it begins to do what it was always designed to do. Condemnation and Death.

Can anyone, even saved Christians, look back at the law and say "I'm perfect now. I remember when I used to be imperfect. Now all that condemnation and death is actually beautiful." The only thing I find beautiful about the law is that it brings me running back to my Saviour, each time, every time... sorry sorry I thought I was awesome for a minute, I didn't realize that it was all You...

The ONLY thing?

Psa_40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Sounds to me like having the Law in your heart (the essence of the New Covenant, Jer 31:31-34) is a delight. Being taught the Law brings blessings...

Psa 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Psa 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psa 119:126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.
Psa 119:127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

Oh to have the heart of David...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

In fact, David will be king over all Israel in the Millenium...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Me? I love God's Law.

 

[Zinzerio]

There is not law of satan, at least in the bible, the law of sin that brings death is the "law of Moses"
and the law of the spirit that brings life, is the grace and the hope of resurrection. this came thanks to Jesus.
so is Saying that before Jesus we were all dead, and in sin because is impossible to live the law of moses with out breaking all the rules.
But Jesus made us Free of that law, gave us the law of Grace and hope of resurrection.

Where you have learn your bible? What denomination you follow?

Myself I have studied, catholics, Baptist, Pentecostals, Mormon, adventist and after lots of meditation and discussions with this people, I finally got the understanding of why this people have so different teachings.

Ok please i not ask you which denomination you are simply because me and you have potential of becoming brothers in Christ so for this reason i not ask because denominations as you know only get in the way and anything that gets in the way of two brothers coming to agreement is not of God look here
Matthew 18:20 (New International Version - UK)



Matthew 18:20

New International Version - UK (NIVUK)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.’

And as you say the greatest commandment is love your neighbor so what would be the opposite of that in Satan law hmm .

We know already he does not obey the lord and his law would not be Gods laws his law would be hate your neighbor with all your heart Yes no ? i think yes

 

[ivanc0]

Yes. The law of sin and death is exactly opposite of the law of God.

God's law is fulfilled through Christ. The law of sin and death is fulfilled through the fleshly, and carnal mind

Sorry guys you distorting the bible.
No matter if we under Moses law or under the grace if we sin and follow satan suggestions, we will be in big trouble in front of God and Jesus.

But under "Moses Law" you have no hope of redemption , but under the new rules given by Jesus you have the opportunity to repent, and live the "grace" that is just another form to say the will of God.

I do now Understand the way you think and why you protesting so much. Unfortunately some one has teach this theory to you, so you could no really see the the work of Jesus.

Please be careful read revelation 3:9. It talks about people who want to live moses law without being a Jew.

Now remember Moses law is for the "House of Israel" is not a covenant for the Gentiles.

 

[just-me]

In fact, David will be king over all Israel in the Millenium...

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Me? I love God's Law.

I might have misunderstood your statement of " In fact, David will be king over all Israel in the Millenium..."
Christ Jesus is of the house of David, and He shall rule.
I say AMEN on everything else you mentioned.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Revelation 19:13-16 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Mark 12:35-37 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

Psalm 110:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Revelation 2:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[haz]

I will just quote some of Romans chapter 1, and then say I agree with it.

Romans 1:19-20 (KJV)
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death

So I understand from your answer to my question, the doctrine you follow says that Christians must obey the law (10 commandments plus the rest as described in Exodus chapt 20-23), and if we do not obey it then we are worthy of death because we did not have the Holy Spirit within us motivating us to do our responsibility in obeying the law.

What level of obedience does God require?

Is it perfect obedience as described in James 2:10?
Or is a lessor level of obedience enough?
and if it's a lessor level of obedience, can you give specifics from scripture?

 

[ivanc0]

I need to sleep, tomorrow is a big working day, Please try to refute my posts, I really will love to be shown to be wrong, then I will have to rethink and pray more.

But if I show you wrong don't be upset, Humans we have that ability to change their thinking when shown wrong.
We are not human tape recorders, we think!

 

[Zinzerio]

Sorry guys you distorting the bible.
No matter if you under Moses law or under the grace if you sin and follow satan suggestions, we will be in big trouble in front of God and Jesus.

But under "Moses Law" you have no hope of redemption , but under the new rules given by Jesus you have the opportunity to repent, and live the "grace" that is just another form to say the will of God.

I do now Understand the way you think and why you protesting so much. Unfortunately some one has teach this theory to you, so you could no really see the the work of Jesus.

Please be careful read revelation 3:9. It talks about people who want to live moses law without being a Jew.

Now remember Moses law is for the "House of Israel" is not a covenant for the Gentiles.

Many people try to twist these clear Bible texts that tell us that the Ten Commandments will stand forever by saying that these verses are written for the jews only or these verses are spiritual, or that forever does not really mean forever, or in some other way try to cloud the meaning. Many so called Christians today claim that the Ten Commandments were only for the Jews, but they are quick to say that they are not allowed to lie, murder, commit adultery, or break any other of the Ten Commandments except the Sabbath commandment


We saw that Jesus Himself, tells us to live by every word out of the mouth of God in Matthew 4:4. “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” Directly out of the mouth of God came the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:3-17. These are the ONLY verses in the Bible that God, Himself, wrote. And God, Himself, wrote them to make us realize their importance and to make us realize that they would forever be in effect. That is why He wrote them on tables of stone

 

[just-me]

Post 312 I'll quote Paul to answer your question. God's words say it so much better than I can.

Acts 24:10-14 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


AMEN Paul. that's exactly what I think and believe.

So I understand from your answer to my question, the doctrine you follow says that Christians must obey the law (10 commandments plus the rest as described in Exodus chapt 20-23), and if we do not obey it then we are worthy of death because we did not have the Holy Spirit within us motivating us to do our responsibility in obeying the law.

What level of obedience does God require?

Is it perfect obedience as described in James 2:10?
Or is a lessor level of obedience enough?
and if it's a lessor level of obedience, can you give specifics from scripture?

If you think I'm advocating obedience in the flesh, or by works only without faith, you have not read my previous posts. Again quoting Paul

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 8:5-8 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

i think you need many payers my friend because the grace you speak about is also seen in this scripture [SIZE=+2]Paul says in Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” A law that is established is certainly not abolished or nailed to the cross.[/SIZE]


and i feel strongly that grace also come from loving your neighbor which we know if you follow that command you no longer sin correct do you see and please feel free to pray for me .

Why is it some scripture is believed but not all scripture together which makes up the 'whole' word of God? You want to pound Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. And how do we establish that law? THROUGH FAITH Then you come in and say this - directly contrary to the word of God - 'A law that is established is certainly not abolished or nailed to the cross'. But yet God's word tell us this:
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; . . . . . . .

I feel also that grace is a reward to for not sinning and grace is also when one become light in burden yes no i think yes

And when you no longer sin that particular sin you might be sinning you have grace from that sin like when you no longer hate people you have grace from the sin of hate. yers no ?

Grace is NOT A REWARD for not sinning . . . that just about makes me sick to my stomach. Grace is God's unconditional, unmerited love toward us and God doesn't just love when we do not sin - we need his love more when we do err and to help keep us from erring.

And we know in here also look here We see in First John 3:4 that sin is breaking any of the Ten Commandments. “Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
1 John 3:4

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

I think we all know what sin is because without the law there is no sin - without the law we would not have the knowledge of sin. But let's read - 1 John 3:1-4

Behold, (Behold!!) what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and if doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (this is the only time we will be completely sinless - law or no law) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

So beautiful . . . .

 

[just-me]

Luke 18:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?