Is Jesus God?

[ji]

Jesus is in the Father, and the Father was in Jesus as He was in the flesh in the form of the Holy Spirit. You know already that all was created by Jesus, Yeshua. You know already the Child born to us is called Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of Peace, God Almighty, Everlasting Father, and He is Lord.

Providing you have read all of the Word, you know that Yahweh states on several occasions, "I am your Salvation." Salvation is the translation of the name Jesus or Yeshua completely to English. He also has declared, "I am your King." We have but One King.

It is obvious you do not want the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to be One.

It is obvious you want to tear the revelation of just how to explain how this mystery is to be explained before Yahweh, Jesus, Yeshua, God, Lord, Holy Spirit, and more actually reveals the full understanding to all. This is true of all who are dangerously close to destroying themselves with what is falsely called knowledge in place of faith.

I know Jesus is God, because of personal revelation when the Holy Spirit entered into me, and the Father drew me to Him, and they are One.

Continue making jokes about Jesus talking to Himself. If that is the case all who pray in the Holy Spirit are doing the same.

No one has used the words, "playing dumb," in regard to your posts or their own; it does not sound like a brother in Yeshua, no, not at all. God bless you with His light.

very clever,you have a lot to answer from one of the previous comments i made...very smart and cunning to avoid it and then justify that 'It is obvious you do not want the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to be One.'
So you think am imagining them to be separate like separate Gods or something?lol...


wow,very clever.... and so not coming to the point...
Godhead is Godhead,there is an order,am not saying they are different Gods...
Its trinity that is the odd term used..which makes it look like all are just one and no need to to be addressed separately.
Godhead makes things clear from OT to NT..

answer this why did Jesus say 'the hour no one knows but the Father alone'...?

 

[ji]

Agreed,
I believe there are still people who try to reason Jesus the human as being God.
Instead of understanding that Gods Words, being born directly from his spirit within...and voiced through word
who spoke all things into existence... it was God's spoken word, part of himself, which was manifested in the form of a man.

You have your body, your spirit, which reconcile within to form your thoughts and your will, and your words voice your message.
Can our words speak things into existence?
No
But Gods words can.
Can you convey to me what you're thinking without speaking?
No
But God can although those who don't have ears to listen must be told his thoughts with audible voice or by reading his spoken words to overcome their own thoughts and be taught.
Why else did Jesus say all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.
All authority is in what God says.

your words somewhat make sense to me
Thanks...

 

[oldhermit]

how will you explain hwat Jesus meant as 'no one knows the hour except the Father' ?
you think i consider Godhead as 3 separate people or something?

What you are asking is how can Jesus be God and at the same time be subject to limitations. Am I correct?

 

[john832]

the flesh in which The Word was manifested in died, The Word did not pass away

So did Christ really die for our sins? Or did He just shed His skin?

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ says here HE was dead, not a shell or a skin, but HE, HIMSELF died and became alive evermore.

 

[ji]

What you are asking is how can Jesus be God and at the same time be subject to limitations. Am I correct?

nope,that i understood...
Jesus is part of Godhead came in flesh.
but this
MidniteWelder's post:


Agreed,
I believe there are still people who try to reason Jesus the human as being God.
Instead of understanding that Gods Words, being born directly from his spirit within...and voiced through word
who spoke all things into existence... it was God's spoken word, part of himself, which was manifested in the form of a man.

You have your body, your spirit, which reconcile within to form your thoughts and your will, and your words voice your message.
Can our words speak things into existence?
No
But Gods words can.
Can you convey to me what you're thinking without speaking?
No
But God can although those who don't have ears to listen must be told his thoughts with audible voice or by reading his spoken words to overcome their own thoughts and be taught.
Why else did Jesus say all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.
All authority is in what God says.

makes sense to me.
Its like God send His parts one by one during various ages of time.
i think things are becoming more clear for me.
The whole time i thought like they were like separated units in one circle or unit.
But now i realize its all one and Jesus was indeed God's word that came in flesh..
The part i missed was that when one fragment of it is here,the rest is still up there.
It makes complete sense now

 

[oldhermit]

nope,that i understood...
Jesus is part of Godhead came in flesh.
but this makes sense to me.
Its like God send His parts one by one during various ages of time.
i think things are becoming more clear for me.
The whole time i thought like they were like separated units in one circle or unit.
But now i realize its all one and Jesus was indeed God's word that came in flesh..
The part i missed was that when one fragment of it is here,the rest is still up there.
It makes complete sense now

Perhaps you need to think a little deeper about how scripture represents the nature of God. Would you be willing to examine this on another level?

 

[ji]

Perhaps you need to think a little deeper about how scripture represents the nature of God. Would you be willing to examine this on another level?

how..........?

 

[ji]

Perhaps you need to think a little deeper about how scripture represents the nature of God. Would you be willing to examine this on another level?

Please go ahead,explain with Holy Scripture,am listening...

 

[oldhermit]

how..........?

Well, the first step would be to examine how the human mind responds to biblical representations about God and how this formulates images of God in our minds.

 

[MidniteWelder]

You completely misapplied everything I said. Jesus did not cease to be God by becoming flesh. I am not certain that you quite grasp the implications of God becoming flesh.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

We see God. and the Word, and manifested in the flesh referring to the same as one.

Am I missing a scripture somewhere?
May I ask where I have implied that Jesus(The word, His living Word) ceased being God by being manifested in the flesh?

Many treat the bible as an object to behold.
But his words are alive and well in our soul lest they would do no work nor hold any authority in our lives.
It is the bread which feeds our spirit, holding the power of life everlasting.

Are you and your own words not one?
Where do Gods words come from?
What was manifested in the flesh?

 

[oldhermit]

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

We see God. and the Word, and manifested in the flesh referring to the same as one.

Am I missing a scripture somewhere?
May I ask where I have implied that Jesus(The word, His living Word) ceased being God by being manifested in the flesh?

Many treat the bible as an object to behold.
But his words are alive and well in our soul lest they would do no work nor hold any authority in our lives.
It is the bread which feeds our spirit, holding the power of life everlasting.

Are you and your own words not one?
Where do Gods words come from?
What was manifested in the flesh?

I have already addressed all of this earlier on this thread in great detail. If you are interested in an explanation please review posts #357, 363, and 365 as I discussed them with Donkeyfish.

 

[ji]

So did Christ really die for our sins? Or did He just shed His skin?

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ says here HE was dead, not a shell or a skin, but HE, HIMSELF died and became alive evermore.

you have a point there,...actually i was going to say that Jesus was given a body of flesh and finite form and in my ignorance i was going to say that that's how He became the express image of God...lol..how silly of me...
Because in OT there are passages where He manifested in front of Moses,Isaiah..
well,this is beyond logic to argue...
lol..am back in square one..
Jesus Christ is the Express image of God.That existed before Creation.
Now from the Godhead,Christ took the form of man and that half man/half God or, man and God at the same point level He attained might be the part from which His new mission took form and after the mission completed He rose up from the dead(by the Power of God the Father) as Redeemer of mankind being in that 'human understanding-over comer' and Firstborn from the dead-express image of God.

Jesus before Creation -Express image of God through which God created everything including Heavens and Angels.
Jesus in flesh -came down to earth in human flesh leaving His Heavenly Glory.

Risen Jesus- Rose up from the dead understanding human conditions and restored back to Godhead retaining His glory and achieved a new state as He intercedes for mankind.He now knows what its like to be human as well as being God.

 

[ji]

Well, the first step would be to examine how the human mind responds to biblical representations about God and how this formulates images of God in our minds.

That can be different depending on people...
i recently had a vision(still got to confirm..given it in Prayer to God),its very easy to go into imagination...so...
its better if you can give a better explanation...
Its ok if you cannot,anyways am convinced now that They are one and its beyond our thinking to understand how Godhead works

 

[oldhermit]

That can be different depending on people...
i recently had a vision(still got to confirm..given it in Prayer to God),its very easy to go into imagination...so...
its better if you can give a better explanation...
Its ok if you cannot,anyways am convinced now that They are one and its beyond our thinking to understand how Godhead works

Are you interested?

 

[JaumeJ]

I could be clever, but not in this forum.

At the time He was human, for me and for all who are saved by Him. He is also the Lamb of Yahweh. He has many titles. As for the Godhead dogma you put forth, yes, that word is used in the Word, refering to Christ as the Godhead, as a man is the head of his wife, so Jesus is the Head of the Body....

I am not being clever, I am being faithful to what I have been taught by the Word, guided by the Holy Spirit.

very clever,you have a lot to answer from one of the previous comments i made...very smart and cunning to avoid it and then justify that 'It is obvious you do not want the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to be One.'
So you think am imagining them to be separate like separate Gods or something?lol...


wow,very clever.... and so not coming to the point...
Godhead is Godhead,there is an order,am not saying they are different Gods...
Its trinity that is the odd term used..which makes it look like all are just one and no need to to be addressed separately.
Godhead makes things clear from OT to NT..

answer this why did Jesus say 'the hour no one knows but the Father alone'...?

 

[KSublett]

God's WORD or Logos is God's Regulating or governing Principle. God's METHOD of LORDSHIP is not ANOTHER PEOPLE. God MADE JESUS OF NAZARETH to be both LORD and Christ: Jesus was NOT the LORD or GOVERNING principle of God until God MADE him that. Word or LOGOS is defined as a PERSON only in the pagan system where Mercury or Hermes was the son of Zeus. God speaks ANTITHESIS proving that Jesus was given lordship or GOVERNING AUTHORITY of all of the pagan's father, spirit (mother) and hatched son. Christ is not a GOD WORD. Jesus was ANOINTED by God to be the MESSIAH: Jesus was of the SEED of Abraham and that whole lineage but not the SEED of God as in pagan "families."

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God
.....will raise up unto thee a PROPHET from the midst of thee,
.....of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deuteronomy 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me,
.....They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a PROPHET from among their brethren, like unto thee,
.....and will put MY WORDS in HIS mouth;
.....and HE shall speak unto them all that I shall command him
Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass,
.....that whosoever will not hearken unto MY words
.....which HE shall speak in MY name, I will require it of him.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
.....which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers,
.....A PROPHET shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren,
.....like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever HE shall say unto you.
Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul,
.....which will not hear that PROPHET,
.....shall be destroyed from among the people.

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER and Jesus is His PROPHET who speaks ONLY what He hears from the ONE GOD THE FATHER.

The Word or LOGOS is never a person but God's Regulating or Governing Principle. God's RULE or LORDSHIP was exercised by the MAN Jesus of Nazareth: A PROPHET like Moses.

In Isaiah 8 the Spirit OF Christ in the prophets said of those who DO NOT speak that Word THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Christ gave the spiritual gift of APT elders commanded "to teach that which has been taught." The command to the Church in the wilderness onward was to PREACH the Word by READING the word: Paul uses an ugly word for those who corrupt or sell their learning at wholesale.

Jesus sent Evangelists OUT to seek those lost spirits who are not OF the World. In the full comission He allowed them to take the "begging bag." A preacher is a KERUSSO or PRESBYTER which is defined as a HERALD. A herald delivers the sealed letter without opening it and modifying it for song and sermon and does NOT charge on the receiving end.

 

[MidniteWelder]

So did Christ really die for our sins? Or did He just shed His skin?

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ says here HE was dead, not a shell or a skin, but HE, HIMSELF died and became alive evermore.

Yes he died for our sins.
He was always present, yet came manifested in the flesh only once. Died in the flesh only once.
He had to come in the form of a man since death first came in the form of a man; resurrection of the dead also had to come in the form of a man.

1 Cor 15:21
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

2 Cor 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


He was made sin yet perfected when resurrected on the third day in his heavenly body.

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and tomorrow,
and the third day I shall be perfected.
1 Cor 15:39
39Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

 

[john832]

Yes he died for our sins.
He was always present, yet came manifested in the flesh only once. Died in the flesh only once.
He had to come in the form of a man since death first came in the form of a man; resurrection of the dead also had to come in the form of a man.

1 Cor 15:21
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.

2 Cor 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.


He was made sin yet perfected when resurrected on the third day in his heavenly body.

Luke 13:32
And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and tomorrow,
and the third day I shall be perfected.
1 Cor 15:39
39Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

My question is "Was He really dead? or did He just shed a skin of flesh while He continued elsewhere?"

 

[MidniteWelder]

I have already addressed all of this earlier on this thread in great detail. If you are interested in an explanation please review posts #357, 363, and 365 as I discussed them with Donkeyfish.

I read them and still agree with you.

Lemme ask this...was it Christs words who came in the flesh or Gods words.
Is Christ the head of himself, or God the head of Christ.

Likewise, do your words have authority over you, or you have authority over your words.
Does you and your words testify of one another. (you back what you say)

Also...when Christ came in the form of a man, did he act upon his own power or the power and authority of the Father who sent him.
Likewise, you as a man, and (Im not detracting from the deity of Who our Lord Jesus Christ is)
What I am saying is that the miracle is ....Christ came in the form of a man just as you and I are.
With compassion and empathy he was able to experienced everything we do.
I believe this is so we have no excuse to say to God...
"Well yeah its easy for you to say God...Jesus...you're perfect and got it easy up there in heaven"

No we cant say that any longer if Christ went through every hardship we do and more.
Hunger, pain, sleep deprivation, temptation, contending with the devil, etc etc.
He bled, he wept, he angered, got frustrated and upset but still. He showed that we can do it without sinning.

He also made it clear others would do and continue what he had been doing.
Others who are not God and also are men.
He came as a servant to the Father as a man not empowering himself as God but doing all through God who empowered him...
...to show it can be done.
That we don't have to give in to the flesh even though we now are present in the flesh, just as he came.
That even though the flesh may be weak the Holy Spirit within us is greater.
And that Gods word, holds power and authority and salvation if we have faith and believe in him.
And this is how we combat the enemy and help to deliver others from the enemies grasp.
God uses his people, to do his good work.
We are those people. Not just the ones we read about in the bible.

I'm not contending with you my brother, perhaps just coming at things from a different perspective.

God Bless

 

[oldhermit]

I read them and still agree with you.

Lemme ask this...was it Christs words who came in the flesh or Gods words.
Is Christ the head of himself, or God the head of Christ.

Likewise, do your words have authority over you, or you have authority over your words.
Does you and your words testify of one another. (you back what you say)

You are limiting your definition of 'Word' to the exercise of linguistic expression in what ever form this may take. This is not how the Holy Spirit is using this word in John 1. The title 'Word' represents a function of God. To understand what I mean by this I would need to first explain to you some elementary concepts of triadic function. Would you be open to looking at some of these concepts in the way that scripture presents them?