AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[KohenMatt]

yes.

salvation;

1. Saved from eternal wrath
2. Saved from a life of conflict between you and God
3. Saved from the destruction which we were headed for if we continued in our sinful ways
4. Saved from a life of trying to find joy through drugs and alcohol, sex, entertainment, money, work, etc etc...
5. Saved from the fear that comes with knowing you are rightly condemned because of your alienation form god and life of sin
6. Saved from the fear of death, because you know your eternal future
7. saved from the fear of having to take care of yourself. because no one else will help you
8. Saved from the fear of suffering and tribulation which comes from living in a sinful world.
9. Saved from the popular saying "YOLO" (You Only Live Once) because you know this life is not all there is.

I am sure I have missed many, But I hope people get the point.

This is what God has saved us from. Yet from what I see and hear in here. People still fear these things. It is sad that the power and grace of God has not touched their lives, and they still have to live in fear. They say they have the words of truth, and those like myself have not. Yet their doctrine does not save them from most of the things God came to save us from!

Yep.
This is something I've had to correct people on regarding Passover, for example. I know of some people who do Passover as a means to salvation and forgivness, every year, year after year. Passover was done once for all of Israel. Every time after that was meant to be a remembrance. Jesus was crucified once for all of us. We need only to remember it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Karraster, where did you get this from? (and this one of the reasons typing is bad, because I am actually just asking and not attacking)

God's Word will stand forever. The Word also says when Messiah comes, Torah will be sent to the nations, we will keep the Feasts, everything will be restored. Why in the would would anyone let the adversary win by believing God's Laws are done away with? What? Did He institute them, then say nevermind because Christians are privileged? Only to restore them again when Messiah reigns on earth? Is God the same yesterday and today and forevermore?

1. Who said God was going to restore them? Is he going to re-institude blood sacrifice and stoning?
2. Who said they still will not be just as active, leading people to the king then as it does today?

One of these days you people may start to listen to what people are saying, and stop your silly false accusations.

But I know. that takes humility, One thing you will see from LAWyers, Very few have any humility,

when it comes to the law there are only two things which can occure.

Pride - I follow the law. so I am in Gods grace, and will be l blessed greatly by him because I am such a good person.

Humility - I can;t keep Gods moral objective, I still fail. And everything I recieve from God is through his mercy and grace, And I do not deserve any of it.

 

[JaumeJ]

I love Passover, and the more I remember it as celebrated once by the Lamb of Yahweh, the more off sounding is the pagan name, easter and the like. I can deal with Holy Week and Resurrection Day, but easter nope.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you don't seem to get is the Law was in force before Mt. Sinai. The seventh Commandment was in force at the time of Adam and Eve. The Law is not a temporary thing from Mt. Sinai to the crucifixion, it is eternal.

And I never said it was not now have I/

So why do you continue to say I think it was nt in effect then, or now??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The other side uses character assassination and accusing of others to make their points. I have gathered some of their reasons that they declare they are right in what God says:

Thats interesting.

Your side does this alot. And you can;t even see it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore? That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?

I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

Here we go again..

NO ONE IS SAYING THIS.

will you people get off your high horses and actually listen to what people are saying??

 

[Deadtosin]

I love Passover, and the more I remember it as celebrated once by the Lamb of Yahweh, the more off sounding is the pagan name, easter and the like. I can deal with Holy Week and Resurrection Day, but easter nope.

then this Easter (April 20th) you can celebrate my birthday with me

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep.
This is something I've had to correct people on regarding Passover, for example. I know of some people who do Passover as a means to salvation and forgivness, every year, year after year. Passover was done once for all of Israel. Every time after that was meant to be a remembrance. Jesus was crucified once for all of us. We need only to remember it.

And we remember it by doing it OFTEN in remembrance of him.

Just make sure the poor get fed, and the people who can afford to eat do not hog it all for themselves.

And make sure people do not get drunk, Let them drink the cup in moderation.

(At least this is what Paul warned us against)

 

[RedTent]

No, I don't think anyone is saying that.

But people ARE saying that! We aren't to read law any more, this in the law. When we have the Holy Spirit to lead us, we must not also be lead by the written law. OT is not to be followed, they say, because we have the NT. We can' have both they say. That is why we are upset.

 

[just-me]

One side of this argument says that God did not cancel when He sent His Son, and when it explains fulfilling and replaced that Christ did, it was in the sense of completed and made perfect, not in the sense of getting rid of. The other side talks of everything of the OT made obsolete, and the law must not be listened to any more. They say that such as grace and the Holy Spirit is not only wonderful to be relied on, but if you have them they mean other wonderful things must be eliminated.

The side for keeping all of God gives scripture to back up their position and reasons they think their position is God based.

The other side uses character assassination and accusing of others to make their points. I have gathered some of their reasons that they declare they are right in what God says: 1. You don't go to Christ for salvation, you are dead in your sins. (In other words, go to hell) 2. You are a hypocrite. 3. You despise Christ. !!!! 4. You hate and despise the New Testament. 5. Bringing up the OT makes you look foolish. !!!! 6. You spit in the face of salvation. (Another way of saying go to hell) 7. You refuse to listen to the NT.

These, they say, are the reasons to believe that much of scripture has to be gotten rid of because of the wonders of scripture that they know of.

Sounds like a description of a walking talking oxymoron. I see it as you do. GBU

 

[just-me]

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore? That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?

I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

It has. Being a vet I will tell you that "friendly fire" is the worst kind. What makes this even worse than that, instigators of controversy is not friendly. They show themselves as enemies to supposed fellow believers. Spiritual pain like I have never seen.

 

[Zinzerio]

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Some People Here are trying to say that if you follow Jesus you became a "Jew"

Others are saying that the Gentiles are people without God.

The being a Jew Or a Gentile is a racial issue. even if a gentile convert to Judaisim he still a gentile.

The Jew race have a Jew religion but do not mix them gentile for a jew mean not of the jew race.

In Jesus all humans are the same, but the jew did a convenant to keep the law of Moses the Gentiles Jumped directly to Grace.

Y you Good in the eyes of God you became part of the family of abraham.

what you must understand is once upon a time the only people who believed Jesus was the messiah was the Jews themselves. and then obviously after that his word was spread many recieved many have not yet

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But people ARE saying that! We aren't to read law any more, this in the law.

No. People are not saying that.

do you get off on making false accusations against people?? My God what is wrong with people in this chatroom. are you so afraid to admit your wrong in some things you will belittle, attack. bear false witness against anyone just so you can be seen as correct and get your friends to like your post?

sorry to be blunt red. But this is for the birds!

When we have the Holy Spirit to lead us, we must not also be lead by the written law. OT is not to be followed, they say, because we have the NT. We can' have both they say. That is why we are upset.

when you have the leading ot the HS, You will not have to worry about the OT law now will you?

do you go around reading the state laws federal laws where you live? I sure hope you do or how else can you follow them? How else are you going to know what is against the law? You better study them every day of your life because you just might forget one of them and fall into sin of breaking the law of your land.

Sometimes people just do not think!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It has. Being a vet I will tell you that "friendly fire" is the worst kind. What makes this even worse than that, instigators of controversy is not friendly. They show themselves as enemies to supposed fellow believers. Spiritual pain like I have never seen.

Oh you have not felt pain yet.. You think this is bad. Wait till you stand in front of the savior and realise just how sinfull you are. And how God wanted you to do this, but you were to busy preaching everyone must follow the law.

 

[KohenMatt]

Something that I think would be helpful for BOTH sides of this whole "Law/Obedience issue" is to stop throwing around generalizations. Not everyone is doing it, but some are. Statements such as "You people", "Judaizers", or "People like you", can uneccesarily lump people into 1 of 2 categories. Personally, I'm not as adamant about hard and fast obedience as others, but I often get lumped into that assumption. The same thing happens with those who learn from the law and even apply some of it to their lives, but don't advocate keeping all of it, they can be labeled as anti-OT.
For clairty's sake, it might be better to address specific people in the debate, instead of throwing out the broad labels.

Just a suggestion. Feel free to implement or dismiss at your own discretion.
Peace,
Matt

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Something that I think would be helpful for BOTH sides of this whole "Law/Obedience issue" is to stop throwing around generalizations. Not everyone is doing it, but some are. Statements such as "You people", "Judaizers", or "People like you", can uneccesarily lump people into 1 of 2 categories. Personally, I'm not as adamant about hard and fast obedience as others, but I often get lumped into that assumption. The same thing happens with those who learn from the law and even apply some of it to their lives, but don't advocate keeping all of it, they can be labeled as anti-OT.
For clairty's sake, it might be better to address specific people in the debate, instead of throwing out the broad labels.

Just a suggestion. Feel free to implement or dismiss at your own discretion.
Peace,
Matt

lol.. there is a difference.

Your right. You are different, and although some may categorize you as this. You are far from it. Unlike others who do act just like the jews.

The problem is I think is they you try to discuss, then you get lied about, Attacked. Mocked, etc etc etc. And this just continues until there is no peace.

 

[Zinzerio]

It appears that the Jews (Scribes and Pharisees) thought it heresy for Paul to teach the Jews and Gentiles to forsake Moses’ teachings by not being circumcised, and to not live by the religious customs of the Jews. (Acts 21:21).

There is a reason for this why the Jews don't believe 1 they got offend because Jesus said go and preach to the uncircumcised and not the Jews and also in Jerusalem there where 2 people who got gatherings from 4 to five hundred people who claimed they where the messiah also. The JEWS where called hipocrits by Jesus they did not like it and so like others they turned away from God.

 

[chubbena]

Yep.
This is something I've had to correct people on regarding Passover, for example. I know of some people who do Passover as a means to salvation and forgivness, every year, year after year. Passover was done once for all of Israel. Every time after that was meant to be a remembrance. Jesus was crucified once for all of us. We need only to remember it.

Even if they wanted to they just couldn't for the temple where the Passover lamb was to be slaughtered is no more. For those you know - are they Jews or Christians?

 

[john832]

And I never said it was not now have I/

So why do you continue to say I think it was nt in effect then, or now??

OK, do you keep the Commandments?

 

[chubbena]

But people ARE saying that! We aren't to read law any more, this in the law. When we have the Holy Spirit to lead us, we must not also be lead by the written law. OT is not to be followed, they say, because we have the NT. We can' have both they say. That is why we are upset.

And grave misunderstanding that the first 39 books were old covenant and last 27 books are new covenant.