AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[just-me]

Even if they wanted to they just couldn't for the temple where the Passover lamb was to be slaughtered is no more. For those you know - are they Jews or Christians?

Right... this scripture is related directly with what you said, and the Old covenant Temple, NOT GOD's WORDS.

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

"covenant" is an added italicized word. It is clear by the beginning of the chapter that the temple ordinances are being talked about. Then going into the next chapter this becomes more evident. Again, "covenant" is an added italicized word.

Hebrews 9:1-7 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

 

[chubbena]

for those of us who have found the "good news" of Jesus Christ, and have experienced it personally.

We have no fear of these things..

Sure you have and keep on doing and sure you have no fear.

 

[john832]

Even if they wanted to they just couldn't for the temple where the Passover lamb was to be slaughtered is no more. For those you know - are they Jews or Christians?

This is also the reason many of the Laws cannot be obeyed today. They involved an active Aaronic Priesthood and a Temple. There are some Laws that still should be obeyed today...

Exo 21:33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;
Exo 21:34 The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.
Exo 21:35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead ox also they shall divide.
Exo 21:36 Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

Has to do with doing right by your neighbor. All these folks that keep shouting the Two Great Commands seem to ignore these very rules that describe the way we do right by our neighbor.

In those days the roof was a living area just as we use a deck today. So...

Deu 22:8 When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence.

But some call this bondage to protect someone from falling off your deck and being injured or killed.

I really think those who shout against the Laws are just repeating what someone has told them and not looked into it for themselves and made their own decisions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sure you have and keep on doing and sure you have no fear.

I don't.

This world is not my home. My home is in heaven with my savior. I desire to be apart from this body and home with the Lord. So no one can take anything away from me. All they can take is this body. And believe you me, it is breaking down. I am getting old. When God says it is time to go home, i will be glad to go.

Of course, those who do not believe in eternal security can not have this hope. this joy, this lack of fear.

Thats to bad. God is offering it to you. Hopefully one day you will take him up on it.l

 

[peacefulbeliever]

so, if we summarize the Ten Commandments in to the Two Great Commandments, are the Ten now done away? Or are they safely hanging on the Two?

Let me ask you: Do you believe that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the LAW? I believe the Ten Commandments are fulfilled by doing the two.

A very lovely sentiment, but the Apostle Paul disagrees. He plainly says that there is a nature in him that is warring against the Godly nature and he still did things he should not...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

He was still looking to Christ to save him from his nature over twenty years AFTER his conversion. It didn't happen to him as you would suggest, he still did the things he should not and needed Christ to deliver him from the death penalty...

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Unlike some who have arrived at a sinless state, Paul said he fought his nature continually...

1. What didn't happen to Paul as I would suggest? What did I suggest?
2. Did I suggest that our flesh will not war against our Spirit if we love God and love others?
3. who shall deliver me from the body of this death? has nothing to do with a 'death penalty' - As long as we have a body we are in the flesh and the battle continues - when we die - we will be delivered from the body of death and in the resurrection we will receive our new bodies
4. I haven't read anywhere where anybody has said they have arrived at a sinless state.

1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

yep, me too!

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Yep, me too!

Now why would that instruction even be needed? After all, upon conversion one would NEVER think of stealing. *cough, choke*

Well, if we battle daily between our flesh and our Spirit then we may be tempted to steal so Ephesians tells us what to do so we won't have to steal. And *cough, *choke - NO ONE has said that upon conversion we are perfect

So, do we obey all, any or none? It is pretty much all or none...

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Which of God's Laws are we free to disregard and break with abandon? And who says that righteousness comes by the Law? Who has said salvation comes by the Law?

Take Notice: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all!!!!! And before this verse James speaks of having respect for the rich and despising the poor - ever done that? If it's all or none - then I suggest you start paying particular attention to the Levitical laws also because the Law is not just the Ten Commandments.

What is that yoke of bondage? Explain it to me if you will. Please show me how not committing adultery, not stealing, not taking the name of God in vain is a yoke of bondage.

a yoke zygos 1. a yoke A. a yoke that is put on draught cattle; B. metaph. used of any burden or bondage 1. as that of slavery; 2. of troublesome laws imposed on one, esp. of the Mosaic law - hence the name is so transferred to the commands of Christ as to contrast them with the commands of the Pharisees which were a veritable 'yoke'; yet even Christ's commands must be submitted to, though easier to be kept.

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

bondage douleia slavery, bondage; the condition of a slave
Gal. 4:4-7 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
I don't know about you but I am no longer a slave but a child of God. I don't know if you are a parent or not . . . I am a parent and a grandparent - I would never tell my child to do something that I know he couldn't do and because he couldn't do it - punish him for it. I give them rules that they can abide by.

Show me why this passage is false...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Perhaps the yoke of bondage is something different than the Law of God but please, show me how the Law of God is a yoke of bondage.

Why? Do you believe it is false? How can I show you something that I don't believe?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, do you keep the Commandments?

do I keep them as God said I must?

No. I can't. If I could I would be perfect.

Do I worry about keeping the commandments? No. Because when i follow the spirits leading, I will not break them.

Do i worry about what will happen if I do slip (And I will), No. God has already forgiven me, And i can learn from my mistake and move on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And grave misunderstanding that the first 39 books were old covenant and last 27 books are new covenant.

lol..Yet more false accusations.

You people never give up do you??

How you can look in the mirror every day and think you are so holy and just and innocent is just mind boggling.

Ps. The old covenant is the law of moses. Only given in part of three books of the OT.

The new covenant was promised in 3: 15. Confirmed to abraham in Genesis 12 and a few other places, And completed with Christ on the cross.

Oh wait, I should not KNOW this should I?

I have done away with the OT (rolls eyes)

 

[KohenMatt]

Even if they wanted to they just couldn't for the temple where the Passover lamb was to be slaughtered is no more. For those you know - are they Jews or Christians?

More of the Messianic type.

 

[Zinzerio]

1. Who said God was going to restore them? Is he going to re-institude blood sacrifice and stoning?
2. Who said they still will not be just as active, leading people to the king then as it does today?

One of these days you people may start to listen to what people are saying, and stop your silly false accusations.

But I know. that takes humility, One thing you will see from LAWyers, Very few have any humility,

when it comes to the law there are only two things which can occure.

Pride - I follow the law. so I am in Gods grace, and will be l blessed greatly by him because I am such a good person.

Humility - I can;t keep Gods moral objective, I still fail. And everything I recieve from God is through his mercy and grace, And I do not deserve any of it.

Jesu read from the torah that has ben proven thats all you need to concern your self with

 

[john832]

do I keep them as God said I must?

No. I can't. If I could I would be perfect.

Ah of course, so why try? After all there is grace to cover any and all actions regardless of intent.

Do I worry about keeping the commandments? No. Because when i follow the spirits leading, I will not break them.

And again, we see the Apostle Paul say the opposite...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Poor ole Paul had not reached that blessed level yet.

Do i worry about what will happen if I do slip (And I will), No. God has already forgiven me, And i can learn from my mistake and move on.

What, me worry? Why bother to learn from your mistake? It is meaningless because you have already been forgiven.

 

[Zinzerio]

lol..Yet more false accusations.

You people never give up do you??

How you can look in the mirror every day and think you are so holy and just and innocent is just mind boggling.

Ps. The old covenant is the law of moses. Only given in part of three books of the OT.

The new covenant was promised in 3: 15. Confirmed to abraham in Genesis 12 and a few other places, And completed with Christ on the cross.

Oh wait, I should not KNOW this should I?

I have done away with the OT (rolls eyes)

i ask you something you do the exact opposite.
you are breaking the law of christian chat which is respect other users which aso means love your neighbor as it is plain to see you obviously dont like the law but i will say no more.
if you know the law you know the bobby more which is the score.

 

[MidniteWelder]

who is trying to escape it?

Do you people think you are so high and mighty and righteous you can just go attacking other people?

The difference between you and I is I KNOW I AM A WRETCHED MAN, By you following your own precept of whatever part of the law you think is still valid, You evidently do not. Or you would not make such a claim.

What is written upon your heart EG?
What are you being convicted of that you are trying to project onto me as if I am still bound by sin.
The difference between you and I, is that I know that I have been released from it through Christ.
And yes I shall proclaim of it gladly as this is boasting in the Lord and not of myself.
It is his work through me that bears evidence of this. I no longer have to sin EG...neither do you.

Why do you act as if his commandments are grievous and that you are no longer to uphold them after a certain point in your walk with Jesus?
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:15
If.......you love me...YOU WILL keep my commandments.


Thus sayeth Jesus EG, what part of keep don't you understand?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

One side of this argument says that God did not cancel when He sent His Son, and when it explains fulfilling and replaced that Christ did, it was in the sense of completed and made perfect, not in the sense of getting rid of. The other side talks of everything of the OT made obsolete, and the law must not be listened to any more. They say that such as grace and the Holy Spirit is not only wonderful to be relied on, but if you have them they mean other wonderful things must be eliminated.

Ok, when I say it is fulfilled - just as you - it was completed - Now, if i complete a project; it is finished (just as Jesus said) and I put it to the side. No one has said that everything of the OT was made obsolete - the subject is the Law/the Mosaic/Levitical Law - the 613 rules for the flesh! Nothing is totally eliminated except the Levitical Ceremonial Laws - the ten commandments are in the NT with ways to obey them . . . There are many great things we can learn from the OT and beautiful scripture showing God's heart toward us.

The side for keeping all of God gives scripture to back up their position and reasons they think their position is God based.

I have used scripture and have seen others use scripture. I think sometimes we just get frustrated and that goes for both sides. Especially when questions are asked and not answered.

The other side uses character assassination and accusing of others to make their points. I have gathered some of their reasons that they declare they are right in what God says: 1. You don't go to Christ for salvation, you are dead in your sins. (In other words, go to hell) 2. You are a hypocrite. 3. You despise Christ. !!!! 4. You hate and despise the New Testament. 5. Bringing up the OT makes you look foolish. !!!! 6. You spit in the face of salvation. (Another way of saying go to hell) 7. You refuse to listen to the NT.

I have had things said to me that are in no way true . . . . even included in your first paragraph.

These, they say, are the reasons to believe that much of scripture has to be gotten rid of because of the wonders of scripture that they know of.

And in this last paragraph also - No one believes that much of scripture has to be gotten rid of . . . most of this is because of misunderstanding what is being said or reading more into what is being said.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

lol..Yet more false accusations.

You people never give up do you??

How you can look in the mirror every day and think you are so holy and just and innocent is just mind boggling.

Ps. The old covenant is the law of moses. Only given in part of three books of the OT.

The new covenant was promised in 3: 15. Confirmed to abraham in Genesis 12 and a few other places, And completed with Christ on the cross.

Oh wait, I should not KNOW this should I?

I have done away with the OT (rolls eyes)

But wait a minute - aren't the first 39 books called the Old 'Testament' and the last 27 books called the New 'Testament'?

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

 

[Deadtosin]

If I try not to sin I will eventually fail. If Christ stays in my mind and in my heart then Christ dwells in me. His heart becomes my heart. I no longer try not to sin, because Jesus is my strength. Get it? One is me, the other is Christ. I fail, He doesn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is written upon your heart EG?

I think Paul can say it much better than I can..

Rom 1:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

What are you being convicted of that you are trying to project onto me as if I am still bound by sin.
The difference between you and I. is that I know that I have been released through Christ.

God has written his entire law in our hearts. He did it in creation.

it is us who turned from him, and caused him to make a law in stone. Not he who turned against us.

Why do you act as if his commandments are grievous and that you are no longer to uphold them after a certain point in your walk with Jesus?

Why do you continue to lie about me? Why do you continue to bear false witness and say I claim something I have never said? is this all you people know how to do??

News flash bro. I grew up like you. I grew up being taught what you are saying, I made the same argument, I was spoonfed, and my blindness did not allow me to actually see what people would say, so I continued to do as you are doing now. bear false witness against them.

i was freed by opening my mind, DO you want this freedom?

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:15
If.......you love me...YOU WILL keep my commandments.


Thus sayeth Jesus EG, what part of keep don't you understand?

Who said I did not? You know how many commands there are? There are so many commands from genesis 1: 1 to revelation 22: 21 I do not think we can know them all.

Now why do you want to focus on the law. And not focus on what really makes a christian feel the joy of God?

 

[chubbena]

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore?

Nope, they are saying that the law of love has replaced the Law spoken by the Word of God through Moses and the prophets.

That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?

Nope, you cannot unless you do these out of love.
If your neighbor does not love his wife and beats her up, you may offer your tender loving care to her. There's no law against love.
If a friend has a terminal disease and is suffering, you may send him to Dignitas and pay for the service - or - if a woman carries a defective fetus she may consider absortion. There's no law against love.
You may carry 24 carat gold cross, fish symbols and such as long as deep in your heart you do this for the love of god. There's no law against love.

I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

This type of love and freedom has spread in the church since 1st century.
Absurd? Certainly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesu read from the torah that has ben proven thats all you need to concern your self with

No.

I don;t

He read from the torah to prove who he was. Just as Paul did as he reasoned from scripture to prove who Jesus was.

So why do I need to concern myself with it?

You think I ignore it? If I did. I would not know God and who jesus was now would I?

 

[chubbena]

More of the Messianic type.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[chubbena]

lol..Yet more false accusations.

You people never give up do you??

How you can look in the mirror every day and think you are so holy and just and innocent is just mind boggling.

Ps. The old covenant is the law of moses. Only given in part of three books of the OT.

The new covenant was promised in 3: 15. Confirmed to abraham in Genesis 12 and a few other places, And completed with Christ on the cross.

Oh wait, I should not KNOW this should I?

I have done away with the OT (rolls eyes)

I must have said something right. How can this truth be known?!