AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[Zinzerio]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Can i ask you what you think of this passage here you put. ? obviously this is a jew talking about Jesus, i have never read this before But after reading i sense that theese people may be the Jews who by the looks of things are the ones still offended from being called hypocrites ? Because the way im seeing spiritualy is those who say Jesus is a curse are not following his word

 

[just-me]

it appears some lay people have invested their time in Old Testament studies. this would be a very good thing, if they understood what they were reading. but, these people are not trained scholars, and therefore are dangerous, since with so much time and effort invested, they must find a way to carry their findings (many of which are valuable) forward and force the old covenant to blend with or worse to be in effect alongside or even worse to be merely an addition or heightening of The New Covenant. they must interact with the church, apparently to reveal this return to Mosaic law.

sadly for them, the Old Covenant is abolished.

we have Christ the lord to thank for this, since a better covenant was needed.
yet, today's pharisees will not have it. what a shame they will not accept the inspired teachings of the greatest pharisee of all who called all his accomplishments under the law (blameless) before Christ interrupted his hell-destination (not just his membership in the sect of the pharisees) excrement.

dung if you prefer. all dung.

Words from the old Covenant as follows
Deuteronomy 13:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 6:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Words from the Old Testament that Jesus said, first to the Pharisees, and then to His disciples.

John 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Matthew 26:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

When did the New Covenant/Testament come?
Answer: After Jesus' death. This is not abolished, and is certainly not dung!!!!

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

You may want to rephrase your terminology.

 

[just-me]

Can i ask you what you think of this passage here you put. ? obviously this is a jew talking about Jesus, i have never read this before But after reading i sense that theese people may be the Jews who by the looks of things are the ones still offended from being called hypocrites ? Because the way im seeing spiritualy is those who say Jesus is a curse are not following his word

QUOTE=ZINZERIO;1473089] Can i ask you what you think of this passage here you put. ? obviously this is a jew talking about Jesus, i have never read this before But after reading i sense that theese people may be the Jews who by the looks of things are the ones still offended from being called hypocrites ? Because the way im seeing spiritualy is those who say Jesus is a curse are not following his word

That is for EG isn't it? I don't know why, but these posts are coming through a lot like this in that last few days.

see post 461. Be careful to address the right person everyone.

 

[Grandpa]

Words from the old Covenant as follows
Deuteronomy 13:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 6:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Words from the Old Testament that Jesus said, first to the Pharisees, and then to His disciples.

John 7:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Matthew 26:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

When did the New Covenant/Testament come?
Answer: After Jesus' death. This is not abolished, and is certainly not dung!!!!

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

You may want to rephrase your terminology.

His terminology is fine. He said the old testament is abolished, not the New Testament.

The old testament is only understood by the Light of the New Testament. And the Light of the New Testament shows us that the old testament is merely a shadow of what was to come. The old testament only describes what we could have in the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus gives us those things that we can never attain ourselves as His Gift by the Holy Spirit.

Now we can step out of the shadow and into His Light.

 

[Zinzerio]

So I had to cross look up your verse, because you have not actually posted the chapter and verse, because I figured context would explain a lot. And it DOES!!

First, it is Matt 5. That is the start of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus is preaching the Beatitudes. Wonderful teaching on the Kingdom of God.

DO NOT THINK I HAVE COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS, BUT TO FULFILL THEM!

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.[SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:17-20 ESV

Jesus is saying that the law does not save us, because we cannot possibly keep the laws, and neither could the scribes and Pharisees. I am not downgrading the importance of obeying God in all things, but Jesus clearly says in Verse 20, that if we think keeping the law makes us righteous, then we better be very careful that our law keeping exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, or we will never enter the Kingdom of God (Heaven is a Jewish euphemism for God in this phrase!)

Further, the word "abolish" or "relaxes" in Greek, is actually the word λύσω, which really means to loose or destroy. (It is the first verb you really parse, because it follows the rules perfectly in every tense!) So Jesus is saying he did not come to completely destroy the instructions or commandments (ἐντολῶν), but rather to bring a better way for us to not be constantly separated by sin from God, except for the sacrificial system. He fulfills the commandments because of who he is, and what he is going to do on the cross, not because of what we do! (Although I think if we all followed the words of the Beatitudes, and the 10 instructions of God found in Exodus 20:1-17 and repeated in Deut. 5:7-21, what a better world we would all have!)

Verse 20 comes with a huge qualifier of verse 5:19 that we simply cannot earn our way into the Kingdom of God!

The rest of the Sermon in chapter 5 of Matthew continues with all the ways we cannot obey the law, including anger, lust, divorce, oaths, and retaliation.

Then comes the key verses which we need to harken to. Love your neighbor, your enemies, and pray for those that persecute you.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ [SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt 5:43-45

Chapter 6 deals with:
Giving to the Needy (a big issue in both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant!)
The Lord's Prayer
Fasting in secret
Laying Up treasures in heaven
Not being anxious but trusting in God

Chapter 7 deals with:
Not judging others
Ask and it will be given
The Golden Rule
A Tree and its Fruits
I never knew you (referring to those who have done mighty works, but never known the Lord: a warning for the Prosperity
Gospel!)
Build your house on the Rock

And finally, Jesus ends the Sermon on the Mount and people were astonished at this teaching - because he was teaching as one who had authority.

"[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, [SUP]29 [/SUP]for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes." Matt 7:28

Following Jesus is never about us keeping the law, but rather following the words and the person of Jesus Christ. He is the authority, and he is the way, the truth and the life.

And when you pull a verse like Matt 5:19, which comes from such an important part of the Bible - Jesus public teaching to the ordinary people, you need to look at the context of the whole Sermon, which is three chapters long!!

And do notice, that other than divorce (adultery) really, the whole Sermon is fresh and exciting. It is not about keeping 613 Old Testament laws, or the Sabbath (I think if it was that important, Jesus would have mentioned it here!) or any other Old Testament laws, nor about Feast Days or how to worship God (with or without instruments??)

It is about new laws, written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, when we walk with Christ!

“This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,” Hebrews 10:16

Getting back to the title of the OP, this is why keeping the commandments are not enough to make you a Christian!

I agree with everything you say but not the last sentence because if your not a christian then you would not be bothered what so ever to try to keep his commands and please God, The commands are also about love and not necessarily about just being obedient and following rules the commandment are also about loving your fellow Israelites in Christ.

I feel if you are with God you feel his rejoicing and you know when you have broke one of his commands

 

[Zinzerio]

That is for EG isn't it? I don't know why, but these posts are coming through a lot like this in that last few days.

see post 461. Be careful to address the right person everyone.

yes sorry i dont know either

 

[phil112]

phil, where's your sense of humor?................

I have an excellent sense of humor. Sacrigilious "humor" ain't funny.

 

[Zinzerio]

I have an excellent sense of humor. Sacrigilious "humor" ain't funny.

pleased to here it.

Question is this a commandment spoke in the new testament this question anyone can answer

Matthew 7:1-1
Good News Translation (GNT)

Ask, seek, knock

[SUP]7 [/SUP]‘Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]‘Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? [SUP]11 [/SUP]If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! [SUP]12 [/SUP]So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law of moses and the Prophets.

Please notice this is one of the GOSPELS speaking about the law of moses and the teachings of the profits.

 

[KSublett]

Jesus and His work on the cross is the Sabbath. Can you have rest with out Him?

That's true: He invited the small groups to come outside the camp or gates: "Come to me all ye that are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you REST." He invited us being freed from the religious burdens to "Come learn of Me." I rest on the seventh and first days.

Sabbath means REST and not Saturday: REST was a command of God to protect the working class from the nobility and religionists:

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exodus 34:21 Six days thou shalt WORD, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

cesso , cessavit verbum docte dicere?
A.To be inactive, idle, at leisure, to do nothing: b. Of things, to be at rest, to rest, be still, inactive, unemployed, or unused
“cur Berecyntiae Cessant flamina tibiae,” [stop a pipe, flute orig. made of bone; “cantus tibiarum cornu
Work which was stopped was "sending out ministers of God."

The Qahal, synagogue, ekklesia or church was permitted to assemble on these REST days to hold a holy convocation
EXCLUSIVE of Work such as vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric.
INCLUSIVE of Rest, Reading and Rehearsing the Word of God.

That never changed for the synagogue where the Word (only) was PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine.

When God abandoned the Jacob-cursed tribe of Levi to worship the starry host they polluted or profaned the sabbath (REST) by slaughtering and burning innocent animals which God had not commanded (Isaiah 1; Jeremiah 7) because He is not in want of the WORKS of human hands and is not worshipped in HOUSES built by human hands (Acts 7 etal)

The festivals were only form military-aged males and were not "worship services."

The Godly Jews did not hold worship services on the sabbath but were QUARANTINED to their isolated villages while the sacrificial system was behind walls hidden from the godly people.

SABBATH does not mean WORSHIP: Sabbath means REST as in COOL it. The Christian rest is called PAUO and has the same restriction beyond attending the School of the Word.

Paul affirms that the Law given because of transgression did not interfere with or change the spiritual covenant God in Christ made with Abraham. Only the Civil-Military-Clergy complex engaged in sacrifices and thereby profaned the Sabbath without further guilt because they had been abandoned to worship the starry host.

 

[KohenMatt]

So how is it done?

Who keeps His Perfect Law?

Only Jesus.

 

[Karraster]

I haven't read the whole thread, but are people actually arguing that none of the ten commandments matter anymore? That being a Christian means you can covet your neighbors wife, murder, have idols, etc?

I truly hope such an insidious and false doctrine has not spread in the church.

bump. great post!

 

[KohenMatt]

And my point is "Which laws??"

Not the 613 Torah laws, but the ones written on our hearts. I am certain that would include the 10 instructions, but we are to obey Christ - and that includes a lot harder things than just the 10 instructions, or the Levitical laws!

All of the laws and commands God has given His people throughout the Scriptures.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WELCOME TO FAMILY FEUD:

Name one thing "YOU" did to deserve eternal life:

I ummm.....

No I umm....

No that was it,, IIIII....

It would be easier to name the millions of things I did to deserve eternal death

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And my point is "Which laws??"

Not the 613 Torah laws, but the ones written on our hearts. I am certain that would include the 10 instructions, but we are to obey Christ - and that includes a lot harder things than just the 10 instructions, or the Levitical laws!

Amen, In fact in Matt 5. Jesus shows how the ten are not even complete if taken literally.

 

[cfultz3]

Amen, In fact in Matt 5. Jesus shows how the ten are not even complete if taken literally.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT.....you do agree with me on something

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can i ask you what you think of this passage here you put. ? obviously this is a jew talking about Jesus, i have never read this before But after reading i sense that theese people may be the Jews who by the looks of things are the ones still offended from being called hypocrites ? Because the way im seeing spiritualy is those who say Jesus is a curse are not following his word

the curse of the law was death.

Paul answered how Jesus became the curse for us. By hanging on the tree.

It means he took the punishment imposed by the law that we deserved. And paid the price of redemption.

He speaks of this in another passage.

Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

The handwriting of requirements was the law. "cursed is everyone who does not confirm all the words and obey them"

 

[MidniteWelder]

If the topic diverts to deserve, the focus has just been diverted to the wrong motive.
God judges by motive right?
The topic is not about deserve
The topic is regarding keeping his commandments

As it's already been mentioned once and shouldn't have to be said twice to believers.
If one loves God, we are asked to keep them not because one fears the punishment of the curse.
But because we love him.

OT ---ECC 12:13
Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
NT---1 John 5:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments.

It says..This is the love of God Why is it so difficult to comprende'

Written and said in both new and old testament
as well as by WHOM?
by Jesus Christ our Lord and savior himself the very author of the commandments in the first place.

Q.“Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

A. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.

I can almost imagine Jesus saying this matter of factly as if suggesting..
Psh. What? you know the commandments..come on man

Escaping it is cowardly
Escaping it is trying to get out of it
Escaping it by making excuses is attempting to escape responsibility by making excuses which is ...cowardly
We are not given a spirit of fear nor called to be cowardly

Nowhere does it say we deserve anything.
We know we have nothing that has not been given...this includes eternal life, salvation, faith, perseverance under persecution to STILL uphold the law and not suggest or portray the cowardly excuse of.
I'm just a man so I can't do it.
God would not have asked you to follow him(follow him how?)
How about starting with following what he said.
If it were impossible Jesus would have told us so
Yet with God all things are possible
For the bible tells me so.
It said all things. Not just moving a little 'ol mountain
But yeah, keeping just 10 little commandments.
10
can you do it?
can you count to ten
can you memorize ten?
who makes it difficult you or God?



Im human so Im not perfect so I cant do it.
Baloney!

 

[RedTent]

No. People are not saying that.

do you get off on making false accusations against people?? My God what is wrong with people in this chatroom. are you so afraid to admit your wrong in some things you will belittle, attack. bear false witness against anyone just so you can be seen as correct and get your friends to like your post?

sorry to be blunt red. But this is for the birds!

when you have the leading ot the HS, You will not have to worry about the OT law now will you?

do you go around reading the state laws federal laws where you live? I sure hope you do or how else can you follow them? How else are you going to know what is against the law? You better study them every day of your life because you just might forget one of them and fall into sin of breaking the law of your land.

Sometimes people just do not think!

I have tried to state your position as concisely and clearly as I can. Instead of going into my person character, tell me what I misunderstand about what your side says.

People are to read the laws of a state, even study them. I even took a refresher course on the driving laws. For one job I had I was required to thoroughly know and keep track of every law of every state in the US regarding payroll. A good portion of scripture is "law". Now, is your position we may not read any law daily, we may never check the written law, or what. "you better study them every day" is not a clear statement of your position or mine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT.....you do agree with me on something

lol bro. We agree on alot, I am sure of that!

 

[KSublett]

When God tried to speak to the Israelites at Mount Sinai they refused and demanded that Moses be their mediator. Moses prophesied and the NT confirms that they would be blind and deaf unto ANOTHER PROPHET like Moses Came. In 2 Corinthians 2 Paul said that the people could not READ the Old Testament nor HEAR it when it was PREACHED by being READ.

The Ten Commandments were written BEFORE the people fell back into Egyptian Idolatry: the tablets were broken and never repeated in the original form. God gave THE LAW OF MOSES because of TRANSGRESSION and these laws "were not good" because they could not be kept. However, these were civil laws and religious laws to PROTECT the godly people from the NOT COMMANDED Civil-Military-Clergy complex whom Stephen in Acts 7 affirms were "turned over to worship the STARRY HOST."

The Jewish Encyclopedia affirms what the Laws of the Monarchy make clear that whatever they called their "gods" Amos and Stephen gives us the NAMES of the Astrial Deities the Jews worshipped. This was called Sabazianism: GODLY jews attended SYNAGOGUE and were quarantined from the sacrificial system at the temple pictured in older illustrations as a ziggurat.

"Despite the differences between the Mosaic and the Egyptian cults, it can hardly be denied that Egyptian influence on Jewish musical practices were quite significant. They would stand to reason because of the high quality of egyptian cultic music.

The tambourine or timbrel, a hoop of bells over which a white skin was stretched, came from Egypt. Miriam used this instrument to accompany the singing and dancing on the shores of the Red Sea (Ex. 15).

The trumpet blown for decampment, at the gathering of the people and on different cultic occasions, especially during sacrifices (2 Chron. 30:21; 35:15; Num 10:2), was the signaling instrument of the Egyptian army.
The sistrum, according to 2 Sam 6:5, was used by the Israelites and bore the name m[SUP]e[/SUP]na'an[SUP]e[/SUP]im. It was the same as the Egyptian kemkem which was employed in the cult of Isis. [Re Miriam and Apis]

The solemnity celebrated on the occasion of the transferring of the Ark to Sion, as well as the dances of the daughters of Israel at the annual feast of the Lord of Shiloh (Judg 21:21), were similar in thier musical embellishments to Egyptian customs in the liturgy and at parades. As Herodotus reports,women sang the praises of Osiris while likenesses of the gods were born about and, during the festival of Diana at Bubastis,choirs of men and women sang and danced to the beating of drums and the playing of flutes." (Quasten, Johannes, Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, p. 65)