Talking against the law is dangerous

[pastac]

1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
This is refering to Jesus2A minister of the sanctuary, This can be any of us who walk in that office of ministry and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. Refering to the tent that in that day stores the Ark
3For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.Speaking of the right to walk in the office includes ordination
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:Making a distinction between jrsus and man walking in the office of preist concerning the law
5Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. When Moses went to convene with God to get the law for the people who were in sin
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. New testament truth but linking to the old testament foundation
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. The first covenant including the law was filled with things that most could not live by but tried and many were victims of the rules of the law which had no mercy
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: A new covenant was mad new laws that referenced the new testament did not do away with the law but made it merciful through Jesus
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.Disobedience to the law is what cause the new covenant or revision of the law but the law was not done away with when Jesus died
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: I will put the covenant in their minds now here is where it gets sticky if the mind is not renewed it can not recieve the things of God on a spiritual level it becomes foolishness the word says
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Even with the new covenant they will be disobedient but Jesus will die and cover their sin so they will be under his blood atonement and the grace and mercy of God as a part of this new covenant

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.The old covenant has been revised and the new covenant is in place.As far as the word contridicting itself it is not possible only our understanding contridicts not the word
Now here is the whole reference to that snipit that was used to address a point I will highlight the parts tha refute your question or answer it hopefully.
Rom 3: 1-31
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
I hope this helps as far as getting upset I'm way past that at this point just trying to be a better Leader each day.

 

[ivanc0]

would you people STOP saying we are against the law. or saying we believe that that every jot and tittle has been done away with.

for every time you do this you continue to prove you do not understand a word we say. how can you sit there and judge us when you continually bear false witness against us because of your ignorance or outright refusal to understand what we believe.

the law still is in effect. 100 %. and every day people are being brought by that very same law to the salvation purchased with the blood of Christ. The schoolmaster continues to do its job, and it will until this heaven and earth pass away and there is no more need of it.

Do you think we are going to be spending an eternity in heaven all being made to be under the law God gave as a curse?

Jesus did not said "this heaven and earth pass away" it only said "until heaven and earth pass away" which is very different.
Earth may pass away, but heaven can't because there is where God Lives....... So this is a metaphor.

But how you conciliate with:

in Galats 3.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[fredjames]

It is true and still upholding the Old Law and burdening others to practice some of them is also dangerous, for it is written, spoken by the chosen servant vessel for CHRIST, to minister the Good News and peace onto the scattered Jews and the Gentiles, who was previously an excellent student of the Old Law and lived under them and even uplifted them in public, also who was taught by an excellent teacher of the Law in and for Israel. and who was warring against sin, to forsake them which came to alive in him upon the knowledge of the 'Law of the Letter'

This is the 'battle with sin', he confessed in Romans chapter 7 and finally saw and received the freedom that liberates all who have come to the faith in CHRIST, where the Living GOD 'sanctified/set apart' them for the New Testament. They put to death and buried(Baptism) that sinful flesh which was in condemnation, for constantly violating, a perfect 'Law of the Letter' working in the lives of Jews and a Law of the conscience working in the lives of Gentiles.

They all come from the same 'Law of the Letter'. In verse 3, "GOD (through HIS CHRIST and HIS HOLY SPIRIT) has done/accomplished what the Law of the Letter, weakened by the flesh, could not do" and therefore 'justice was served' in fulfilling the requirement judgement of a hungry and thirsty sin and death that was ruling the world.

They have all come to pass now witnessed as the accomplished Old Covenant by GOD HIMSELF, born and becoming a man in order to save all prisoners and slaves, bound by a thief and paid the required price in full, for their redemption and set them free, in order to further be protected and be safe, they may choose to serve a Good MASTER now.

The Old Covenant is also spiritual, one in GOD's Righteousness and another in the faith of GOD fearing men who ever lived and together in sin knowledge and sacrifices and further in religious and government rules and regulations and judgement. There are good and bad examples, spiritually and carnality, practices and acts. These are only to be remembered and encouraged as history of the dark ages that strife towards the Light. They are for reference purposes, in regards to creation, sin, faith, prophesy, reminder, warning and may be etc.

Apostle Paul was that excellent student who studied under an excellent teacher, Gamaliel and practiced them, example Sabbath, Tithing, Circumcision, keeping of traditions and etc. These 'are words' written in the 'Law of the Letter' and upon walking in the SPIRIT, he rebuked the liberated church who have been deceived by imposters, by saying to them;

"If you practice one (one of anything written and required under the Old Law), you must practice all"

"If you break even to the least (least of anything written and required under the Old Law), you are under curse."

i believe and hope that no one as believers in the faith, will talk against the Old Law but they will be against those who still uphold the Old Law, bringing them into practices and teaching others to do so. They are just reacting imitating Apostle Paul reaction by using Holy Scriptures as a Living proof to rebuke false representation.

 

[just-me]

Talking positive about the words of God, in what is called the law, is not practicing the works of the law for self justification. With discussion that ends up in controversy, it appears many purposefully neglect the difference. Talking against the law for the purpose of defining salvation in Christ, is a contradiction to the sequence of events necessary, for Jesus came in due time.

Romans 5:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Galatians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

God endorsed the first things of old for good reason. Tear down the foundation in Christ, and the whole structure crumbles. Like the OP says..........it's very dangerous to talk against the law.

John 12:23-30 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

There is Spiritual significance in "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."

Have=BC
Will=AD

 

[chubbena]

Why you call apostle Paul foolish?

Read again what I said if you please.

 

[fredjames]

God endorsed the first things of old for good reason. Tear down the foundation in Christ, and the whole structure crumbles. Like the OP says..........it's very dangerous to talk against the law.

Can you please dear just-me, explain what you mean to say in this three sentences?

 

[ivanc0]

Read again what I said if you please.

here is what I said and what you said:

Originally Posted by ivanc0

Actually you right it is USELESS to quote from the OT if you trying to enforce a law, but if you teaching History, or show principles is ok,
But is paramount to remember, Jesus died in the cross to fulfill the law, so a new covenant could be established...
Galatians 3

King James Version (KJV)


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

.........
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


"Posted by Chubbena"
Foolish is those who want to be complete by the law - which no one here claims.
Foolish is those who keep accusing others of such.

Basically I agree with apostle Paul, The Law was a preparation for Christ!,.....but if you believe in Christ ... do you no longer needs the LAW.O

foolish Galatians,........
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I have never used the word foolish.... Was Paul and YOU. who used that expression.

 

[ivanc0]

Time is over! is time you answer my question!

Originally Posted by ZINZERIO

Originally Posted by ivanc0

Is not OK to disobey the commandments.

Now my question to you is: "Which are the commandments for the GENTILES?"
Ok lol we are back to question 1 again and the start of a new chess game yes,, i hope you did not have to travel to far to pick it up and i am very sory about that. I will try to keep my cool,

i have a 24 hour timer in place for each move ok

ring ....ring....you have offered an answer.....
Time is over! is time you answer my question!

 

[chubbena]

here is what I said and what you said:

Originally Posted by ivanc0

Actually you right it is USELESS to quote from the OT if you trying to enforce a law, but if you teaching History, or show principles is ok,
But is paramount to remember, Jesus died in the cross to fulfill the law, so a new covenant could be established...
Galatians 3

King James Version (KJV)


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

.........
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


"Posted by Chubbena"
Foolish is those who want to be complete by the law - which no one here claims.
Foolish is those who keep accusing others of such.

Basically I agree with apostle Paul, The Law was a preparation for Christ!,.....but if you believe in Christ ... do you no longer needs the LAW.O

foolish Galatians,........
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I have never used the word foolish.... Was Paul and YOU. who used that expression.

Then why you would say

Why you call apostle Paul foolish?

is beyond me.
And why you would say

Basically I agree with apostle Paul

is beyond me also.
As for myself, I agree with him. Period.

 

[just-me]

God endorsed the first things of old for good reason. Tear down the foundation in Christ, and the whole structure crumbles. Like the OP says..........it's very dangerous to talk against the law.

Can you please dear just-me, explain what you mean to say in this three sentences?

The Old Testament covenant, including the law, had to come first so we could see the significance of the New Testament. If we know Jesus is the creator of all things, then by talking down the law, we also talk down Him. Foundations cannot be built on sand. Solid ground is the foundation that is laid first for solid construction.

1 Peter 1:18-21 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you dearly beloved just-me, i accept what you say and is of truth founded, Old Covenant and New. They are both SPIRITUAL, but today 'one' in the flesh and blood and it's members stands excellent that defeated sin and death of the Old, in fulfilling its 'Law's requirement' (and not the practices of the Law) of the Old, which 'shall be fulfilled in us', if we continue in the things of the HOLY SPIRIT and not the things of carnality which also is warring against each other. As believers in 'the faith' of the 'New Covenant', which now fully consist of the words of spirit and life, confessed from JESUS of Nazareth, MESSIAH's own mouth, justified as the HOLY SPIRITUAL inspired knowledge of the Kingdom of GOD, written as the New Testament.

Who is talking against the Law? There are ignorant people who are bringing the practices of the Law of sin and death into the liberated church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Old Testament covenant, including the law, had to come first so we could see the significance of the New Testament. If we know Jesus is the creator of all things, then by talking down the law, we also talk down Him. Foundations cannot be built on sand. Solid ground is the foundation that is laid first for solid construction.

1 Peter 1:18-21 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

So we build our foundation on the law.

ok.. You build your foundation on the law. I will build mine on Christ.

Christ is the cornerstone, And the apostles and prophets are the foundation stones

 

[fredjames]

Beloved, please do not misunderstand dearly beloved just-me, he is one of us in CHRIST, who love GOD's every Word to understand clearly.

As it is written for believers, to only those who are the followers (in practices to the every Word of GOD) of the LORD;

"Abide in My Words and abide in My Love for one another. Without me you can do nothing."

 

[just-me]

Peace be with you dearly beloved just-me, i accept what you say and is of truth founded, Old Covenant and New. They are both SPIRITUAL, but today 'one' in the flesh and blood and it's members stands excellent that defeated sin and death of the Old, in fulfilling its 'Law's requirement' (and not the practices of the Law) of the Old, which 'shall be fulfilled in us', if we continue in the things of the HOLY SPIRIT and not the things of carnality which also is warring against each other. As believers in 'the faith' of the 'New Covenant', which now fully consist of the words of spirit and life, confessed from JESUS of Nazareth, MESSIAH's own mouth, justified as the HOLY SPIRITUAL inspired knowledge of the Kingdom of GOD, written as the New Testament.

Who is talking against the Law? There are ignorant people who are bringing the practices of the Law of sin and death into the liberated church.

I agree that we are not supposed to allow Pharisaical practices, defined in scripture, into the true church of Jesus Christ. On the same token, we are not supposed to squelch the reality of any words God has ever spoken for the sake of disallowing these Pharisaical practices. This later kind speaks against God's law in order to keep this false doctrine away from the church. The intensive might, I say MIGHT be of good intention, but a blanket rejection of that part of God's word defeats the purpose of Christ Himself. There are many in CC who jump to the conclusion that anyone speaking positive about the law is automatically one who is endorsing Pharisaical doctrines. Jesus defined it right when he was speaking to the Pharisees saying.
"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?" John 7:19 (KJV)

The spiritual mind can understand that the law is not against Christ. The carnal mind which sees the law only in it's physical aspects, think that any mention of the law God gave to Moses is no good for learning after we are born again through Christ Jesus. By these premature assumptions, before properly discerning others motives when the law is mentioned as good for Christains, they are caught up in "speaking against the law" of God, which is dangerous to say the least.

Paul saw the law as spiritual because He saw it the way it was supposed to be seen after his conversion. He was once blinded, but then he saw, not only with his natural eyes, but with his spiritual eyes, and God healed both.

Romans 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 3:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Speaking against any part of God's word stifles faith that should be increased.

Luke 17:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

2 Corinthians 10:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

 

[danschance]

Can you please dear just-me, explain what you mean to say in this three sentences?

Is it really dangerous to speak against the law? Who is speaking against the law? No one at all?

I and others are saying the Mosaic laws are with and for the old covenant. The laws of Christ are for the new covenant. Exactly how is this speaking against the law?

 

[fredjames]

Dearly beloveds, i am encouraged in the labor for the lambs and sheep of the Living GOD, and also for your supports and am encouraged but may they all be for CHRIST, as by HIS Help learn to 'abide', forgetting our'elves'.

Thank you and may the Good GOD, the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, bless you together with HIS kindness and peace.

 

[just-us-2]

Food for thought...

 

[Least]

Hi Just-us-two,

The picture made me think of Psalm 55.

Psalms 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psalms 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
Psalms 55:18 He hath delivered my soul in peace from the battle that was against me: for there were many with me.
Psalms 55:19 God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.

 

[just-me]

I am coming to the conclusion that the people with the most reputation points are scratching something. Maybe. But who am I to judge? LOL

2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[Vaudeville]

I am coming to the conclusion that the people with the most reputation points are scratching something. Maybe. But who am I to judge? LOL

someone, by the look of it. it appears you're disappointed people are not convinced by all your hard work trying to make the new covenant just a better version of the old.