Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[KSublett]

Diana, now my mind will have me utter
A pleasing song in honour of your deity,

Wliile this my comrade strikes with nimble hand

The well-gilt brazen-sounding castanets. And Hermippus, in his play called The Gods, gives the word for rattling the castanets, r, saying —

And beating down the LIMPETS from the rocks. They make a noise like castanets

​

But Didymus says, that some people, instead of the lyre, are in the habit of striking oyster-shells and cockle-shells against one another, and by these means contrive to play a tune in time to the dancers, as Aristophanes also intimates in his Frogs.'

 

[Pie]

Hmm, I wonder how CoCers would feel about these acapella groups coming out. An artist like Peter Hollens uses only his voice (and some claps) to make his music. He uses technology by recording himself singing different tones and then plays them all together at once making it sound very similar to music made with instruments. It's quite beautiful. Anyways, he's not a christian singer... but if say a christian were to do such a thing using only their voice to sing hymns... would it be deemed evil?

I mean sure, they are using technology but CoCers don't seem to have a problem using technology, hence why they on their computers on these forums. Entire acapella groups don't even need technology... they can do it just with their voices in unison. Or would it be because some people are good at mimicking musical instrument sounds with their voice, that too makes it evil?

 

[T-REX]

...............HUH?

 

[MsLimpet]

Diana, now my mind will have me utter
A pleasing song in honour of your deity,

Wliile this my comrade strikes with nimble hand

The well-gilt brazen-sounding castanets. And Hermippus, in his play called The Gods, gives the word for rattling the castanets, r, saying —

And beating down the LIMPETS from the rocks. They make a noise like castanets

​

But Didymus says, that some people, instead of the lyre, are in the habit of striking oyster-shells and cockle-shells against one another, and by these means contrive to play a tune in time to the dancers, as Aristophanes also intimates in his Frogs.'

Scipture please? Chapter and verse please?

And beating down the LIMPETS from the rocks. They make a noise like castanets
But Didymus says, that some people, instead of the lyre, are in the habit of striking oyster-shells and cockle-shells against one another, and by these means contrive to play a tune in time to the dancers, as Aristophanes also intimates in his Frogs.'

I want to see scripture for this!

 

[KSublett]

Churches of Christ do not do ACappella. They engage in congregational singing. "a cappella" defines a group of neutered French Opra singers who sang ORGANUM or after the Pip Organ. Humanoids did not know about HARMONY which is not MELODY until the monks and composers began fiddling around with the keys of the simple pipe organs.

It was unlawful to play the organ in the Pope's presence in the only official mass in the Sistine Chapel. Chapel is CAPER which was named after a genera's goat-skin chapel. Cappella is really a SHE goat and "tragedy" is named after the goat song. The FALSETTOS could not compete with the neutered Opra singers so the pope USED the castratos to perform organum. That was a simple form of harmony. Both the Levites and the Catholic singers MUST BE MALE but they PERFORM the role of Women. And that's why so many people flee from apostate churches of Christ.

The Catholics neutered their "praise team" and when that was outlawed composes began to write TROUSERS SONGS which could be sung by the modern clergy singers in church. It has been claimed that these "praise singer" sing in that screechy style loose their ability to sound manly.

Congregational singing which did not exist until after the Reformation misses the point but it has never been used to deliberately so discord.

No one cares what you do on your own time but up to half of a congregation FLEES without understanding when the ACappella fells invade. The command is to SPEAK one to another and the more "musical" it becomes the less it is able to TEACH THAT WHICH HAS BEEN TAUGHT.

 

[posthuman]

Sad to hear that, but confusion and heretical teachings of demons. Care to give an example of some of things that happen, because that's sounds highly unlikely. The CoC simply goes according to the bible, so it's hard to see how any of that could of happen.

if KSublett is an accurate representation of the theology behind that man-made denomination which proudly parades it's monicker, then one need only read this thread with discernment to see examples of what i'm talking about.

if not, then the old guy is doing a great disservice to the organization, and their bishop ought to be upset about his affiliating these mad, convoluted rantings with an otherwise honorable institution.

 

[SeaBass]

Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but don’t argue about doubtful issues.
One person believes he may eat anything, but one who is weak eats only vegetables.
One who eats must not look down on one who does not eat, and one who does not eat must not criticize one who does, because God has accepted him.
Who are you to criticize another’s household slave? Before his own Lord he stands or falls. And he will stand. For the Lord is able to make him stand.
(Romans 14:1-5)

i don't criticize anyone who by closeness to idolatry or weakness is unable to understand & enjoy music as a supplication before God. i'm sorry if i ever gave that impression; if i did, i repent of it. what i am against is criticizing either the brother that does​ in such a way make his offering before the Lord.

ROm 14, Paul is dealing with matters of opinion, NOT matters of doctrine.

 

[souljahblyndslym]

AINT NOBODY GOTT TYME 4 DIS

 

[KSublett]

Smile! This is not Scripture. You should print out a copy and read it while the preacher is dancing and prancing and pointing and snapping and frothing because he can't obey the command to PREACH the Word (only) by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. Besides, Christ did not spiritually gift his ROLE in Ephesians 4 nor give him a DOLE. That may be why strong delusions bring on the urge to sing, clap and dance. That's why the male population is increasingly disguised as empty pews.

Athenaeus, The Deipnosophist 3.31

Why should you listen to a preacher speaking about hiself and looking silly when you can READ all of the important historic literature ALL OF WHICH gives musical performers a bad rap

 

[Jabberjaw]

Smile! This is not Scripture. You should print out a copy and read it while the preacher is dancing and prancing and pointing and snapping and frothing because he can't obey the command to PREACH the Word (only) by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. Besides, Christ did not spiritually gift his ROLE in Ephesians 4 nor give him a DOLE. That may be why strong delusions bring on the urge to sing, clap and dance. That's why the male population is increasingly disguised as empty pews.

Athenaeus, The Deipnosophist 3.31

Why should you listen to a preacher speaking about hiself and looking silly when you can READ all of the important historic literature ALL OF WHICH gives musical performers a bad rap

What does this have to do with
[h=2]Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship[/h]

 

[KSublett]

ROm 14, Paul is dealing with matters of opinion, NOT matters of doctrine.

That's true: Doubtful Disputations is discussing anything of human opinion or "preference." He silences everyone and everything but that which does not edify or educate. The Sects in the Roman marketplace all had diet patterns and all were "Just out of paganism." Ok says Paul. The assemby is to speak that which is written for our learning.

Some would still eat meat and some would just eat "beans." That has nothing to do with the kingdom so DO NOT LET THAT get into the ASSEMBLY. So, Romans 14 FORBIDS doubtful disputations or private diversities SO THAT the assembly could edify or EDUCATE. That might take a long time.

If I want to pluck my banjo that's fine. However, banjos do not EDUCATE So Keep It Silent Silly because the ONLY reason other people maybe travel a long distance and stay all day is to hear and learn "that which is written for our LEARNING." Bless their hearts, why does the LEARNING Word not prevent them from wanting to fiddle around while Jesus teaches when we Teach that which He commanded to be taught. Bless their hearts again, where did Jesus say anything bout instruments which were outlawed from the church in the wilderness onward?

 

[SeaBass]

not to mention using the internet -- i mean, here we are using mechanical devices to fellowship, praise, worship and encourage each other, right? the greatest part of the internet is porn! so is it wicked for us to take it captive and use it for God's glory?

if we accept this way of thinking, weren't all of the gospel writers also under condemnation by it for using a mechanical device like papyrus & stylus to spread the Word?

it's ridiculous, and the extent to which OT scripture is twisted and maligned to justify it is ghastly.

Can you respond to jabberjaw's post #608?

In the great commission, Mt 28:19,20, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go" into all the world and preach the gospel. Yet in that context Jesus nowhere authorized a particular means of transportation/communication. Since Jesus did not authorized a specific means as to how to "go' then what mode of transportation/communication were the disciples to use??

 

[MsLimpet]

The Bible teaches us that we must prove and test all things and only hold fast to that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21). If we cannot go to the Bible and prove what we are doing, then we cannot participate in it with God’s blessing (Rom. 12:2; Mt. 7:21).People try to justify the use of mechanical instruments in New Testament worship by saying, the Bible doesn’t say we can’t use them. But,, this is not how we are to read and study the Bible.

Instead of going to the Bible to see if a practice is specifically condemned, we should go to the Bible and see if it is authorized by God and, pleasing to Him. We have to find out if what we are doing is acceptable to God (Eph. 5:10; Phil. 1:10). If we cannot prove what we do, then we should not do it (1 Thess. 5:21).

We must walk by biblical faith which can only come from God’s word (Heb. 11:6; 2 Cor. 5:7; Rom. 10:17). Therefore, where there is no word of God, there can be no walking by faith. We are not to assume or presume; instead, we must find out if what we are doing is glorifying God and acceptable to Him (Eph. 5:10; Col. 3:17; 1 Cor. 10:31). One cannot use mechanical instruments in New Testament worship because there is no divine authority from God.

 

[posthuman]

ROm 14, Paul is dealing with matters of opinion, NOT matters of doctrine.

Paul is by doctrine established by Christ Himself instructing those with different opinions to get along with each other.
he sets down doctrine, the same doctrine, when he wrote to Titus instructing him how to deal with habitual liars and irascible false teachers:

Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth.
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
(Titus 1:14-15)

 

[SeaBass]

i used to respect the COC. we went to one when i was a child, but now maybe i understand why my mother eventually took us out of it.

thank you Ksublett for clearly showing us that it is a den of confusion and heretical teachings of demons.

We clearly see the error your mother took you into.

 

[KSublett]

What does this have to do with
Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship

Simple JabberJaw, ALL recorded literature explains why a Christian who is a Disciple would not be caught dead singing and playing an instrument in the SCHOOL OF THE WORD.

Paul and even Simple Simons would know lots about the Classics and understand. If you read the Classics and Church fathers you would be embarassed to sing, clap, play instruments and gyrate in the presumed "holy place." That would have gotten the Levite Sorcerers executed.

Paul and the rest of Scripture is like a table of contents: he writers POINTERS to the Old Testament or the Classics and YOU will not have a clue if you are singing and clapping instead of LOOKING where He points.

 

[SeaBass]

That's true: Doubtful Disputations is discussing anything of human opinion or "preference." He silences everyone and everything but that which does not edify or educate. The Sects in the Roman marketplace all had diet patterns and all were "Just out of paganism." Ok says Paul. The assemby is to speak that which is written for our learning.

Some would still eat meat and some would just eat "beans." That has nothing to do with the kingdom so DO NOT LET THAT get into the ASSEMBLY. So, Romans 14 FORBIDS doubtful disputations or private diversities SO THAT the assembly could edify or EDUCATE. That might take a long time.

If I want to pluck my banjo that's fine. However, banjos do not EDUCATE So Keep It Silent Silly because the ONLY reason other people maybe travel a long distance and stay all day is to hear and learn "that which is written for our LEARNING." Bless their hearts, why does the LEARNING Word not prevent them from wanting to fiddle around while Jesus teaches when we Teach that which He commanded to be taught. Bless their hearts again, where did Jesus say anything bout instruments which were outlawed from the church in the wilderness onward?

Singing is a command, matter of law/doctrine, Eph 5:19 and not a matter of opinion.

 

[SeaBass]

Paul is by doctrine established by Christ Himself instructing those with different opinions to get along with each other.
he sets down doctrine, the same doctrine, when he wrote to Titus instructing him how to deal with habitual liars and irascible false teachers:

Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth.
To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
(Titus 1:14-15)

Singing is commanded, matter of law/doctrine.....not opinion.

 

[MsLimpet]

Singing is commanded, matter of law:doctrine.....not opinion.

Eph 5:19 and not a matter of opinion.

 

[posthuman]

The Bible teaches us that we must prove and test all things and only hold fast to that which is good (1 Thess. 5:21). If we cannot go to the Bible and prove what we are doing, then we cannot participate in it with God’s blessing (Rom. 12:2; Mt. 7:21).People try to justify the use of mechanical instruments in New Testament worship by saying, the Bible doesn’t say we can’t use them. But,, this is not how we are to read and study the Bible.

good then. explain by scripture how what was an acceptable supplication to God in the OT (sooo many examples) and will be after His return (revelation 5:8) is wickedness in the interim?

will you point at animal sacrifices and say they are no longer required? wonderful! Christ became our sacrifice, and we ourselves are instructed to become living sacrifices.

it was good for an Israelite to take the vows of a Nazerite, but there were many righteous men who were not Nazerites. The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and we rejoice in His presence!

you rejoice too! whether to you that is to be silent and still yourself, to blow a flute and dance or strum a harp and sing, to cast yourself prostrate on the ground or just to smile, lift up your hands and sway, it matters nothing to me. what is in your heart is what makes your actions acceptable.

rejoice! God is Great! He has brought even us filthy gentiles into His kingdom and by His righteousness washed us cleaner than pure snow!