Attack of the Judaizers

[JesusLives]

Here is another favorite verse the Judaizers love to quote:

They love to quote this verse because it says "law" which in their minds means "Mosaic law". However, in the Greek word for "law" in the above passage does not mean law at all. In Greek that word is "anomia" which means lawless. The KJV has it wrong and is leading nomian nuts on the freeway in the wrong direction. Look below at how a modern translation has translated this verse much more accurately than the 400 year old KJV

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 1 John 3:4 .

Doesn't lawlessness still mean transgression?

 

[Hoffco]

The law of God is not the law of sin and death, it is holy, good and spiritual and Jesus fulfilled it all. And now He orders us to keep His commandments. And we can do it as king David did, most of his life, by the new birth and the indwelling Spirit in Him and in us. The Old T. saints were saved as we are by God's eternal cov of GRACE. Rom,8:29-30. By faith we establish the law. NOW, it is the law of Christ we keep, not of Moses. Judaizers are not Christians. You can tell a real Judaizer in here ,, they condemn what the New T. says, openly denying the apos. Paul's statements . They claim we have to do works to become a Christian. NO WAY< We do good works after we are saved by GRACE. Yet ,the good works are necessary for salvation to be real. love to all. Hoffco

 

[JesusLives]

The Law of sin and death is the ministration of death written on stone which is the 10 commandments.

The Law of God I can't find in my bible. I read the KJV. Is the Law of God in your bible?

Sin is transgression of the law. So what are you beholding? Your sin or your Redemption?

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Truly not trying to be argumentative but I don't understand what it is you are really trying to say. That the 10 Commandments are sin?

When I say sin is transgression of the law it means to me that the 10 Commandments show me what sin is. If I go against God's law then I am transgressing the law of God and I have sinned. Jesus came to fulfill the law and since I have given my heart and life to Jesus His death on the cross covers my sin and I am forgiven. Because I love the Lord I want to keep His commandments because He has also said go and sin no more. Again the 10 Commandments show me what not to do and I can only keep them because the Holy Spirit is living in me.

 

[JesusLives]

While I agree that Jesus' work on the cross did not "destroy the law" but it fulfilled it. This is clearly taught in scripture. Yet you are sadly mistaken by thinking not a jot or tittle won't change, because it has. Concepts in scripture must be taken in context.


Judaizers love to quoate as you did but always leave off the last four words "UNTIL ALL IS ACCOMPLISHED". Jesus accomplised a change in the law on the cross. You simply must read all of the bible and not just the parts that supports your ideas.

The law has absolutely changed and the bible says so.

Jesus became our high priest and this means there was also a change in the law.

But not all is accomplished yet as Satan, sin, death are not yet destroyed and Jesus second coming has not happened yet. So God's law is still in effect.

 

[Hoffco]

JesusLives, You are acting like a Judaizer, and may be one. You are denying CLEAR teaching of the New T.. The book of Heb. tells us, the old priesthood is gone, and so are all the laws of the priesthood ,gone. for ever. Israel is going to rebuild their temple. etc. in unbelief of Jesus and denial of the New Cov. And God will punish them for doing so. When they say " peace and safety" all Hell brakes upon their heads. Jesus comes back at the MID point of the 70th week of Dan., and the wrath of God is poured out on the world and upon the nation of Israel , only a small remnant will be saved: 144,000 Jews are saved at the rapture, and those alive at Jesus 2nd. coming to earth to rule, will be saved, two thirds of the nation are killed. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Elin]

But not all is accomplished yet as Satan, sin, death are not yet destroyed and Jesus second coming has not happened yet. So God's law is still in effect.

You do not understand the NT.

Satan, sin and death have been defeated, as proven in the resurrection of Christ Jesus and the new birth.
All that is left is the current mop-up campaign.

God's law, the basis of the old covenant, is that all who do not obey it perfectly are condemned
(Dt 27:26).

It is still in effect only for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ,
who frees from the law of death because of sin (law of sin and death).

The law is not in effect for those who believe in Jesus Christ and are in the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
of forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77) through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[JesusLives]

JesusLives, You are acting like a Judaizer, and may be one. You are denying CLEAR teaching of the New T.. The book of Heb. tells us, the old priesthood is gone, and so are all the laws of the priesthood ,gone. for ever. Israel is going to rebuild their temple. etc. in unbelief of Jesus and denial of the New Cov. And God will punish them for doing so. When they say " peace and safety" all Hell brakes upon their heads. Jesus comes back at the MID point of the 70th week of Dan., and the wrath of God is poured out on the world and upon the nation of Israel , only a small remnant will be saved: 144,000 Jews are saved at the rapture, and those alive at Jesus 2nd. coming to earth to rule, will be saved, two thirds of the nation are killed. Love to all, Hoffco

Jesus is our High Priest now standing before the Father interceding on our behalf and He has not come again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords yet. Daniel and Hebrews both are talking about the sanctuary and Hebrews especially tells us Jesus function as our High Priest. I am not a Judaizer even though I have been accused of it many times. I am a follower of Christ and He is my Lord and Savior.

 

[JesusLives]

You do not understand the NT.

Satan, sin and death have been defeated, as proven in the resurrection of Christ Jesus and the new birth.
All that is left is the current mop-up campaign.

God's law, the basis of the old covenant, is that all who do not obey it perfectly are condemned
(Dt 27:26).

It is still in effect only for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ,
who frees from the law of death because of sin (law of sin and death).

The law is not in effect for those who believe in Jesus Christ and are in the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
of forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77) through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

I say the law is still in effect because there are a lot of people who don't know Jesus and they need to know what the rules of God's government are so they know what sin is. Jesus came to fulfill the law not destroy it. I am saved by Grace not the law I know that but the law still stands to show us the way to Jesus and what He can do for us.

Yes Satan was defeated, but he still needs to be destroyed and that has not happened yet.

 

[danschance]

Doesn't lawlessness still mean transgression?

I assume so.

 

[Hoffco]

JesusLives, 2407,that sounded like a Christian; SO, why do you get labeled a Judaizer? Because you make the bad statement that the Law of Moses is in force ,until "A is fulfilled. That is wrong; the law is filled piece meal, one part at a time, as it fulfilled, it is dropped. Much prophecy is not fulfilled yet, so that part is still in force, OR on the books, until fulfilled and gone. Please, be more careful how you says it. Love to all, Hoffco Until "ALL" is fulfilled, is what I said , but my PC erasted it , sorry

 

[danschance]

But not all is accomplished yet as Satan, sin, death are not yet destroyed and Jesus second coming has not happened yet. So God's law is still in effect.

As Elin has stated, death, sin and satan have been defeated the by the death and resurrection of Christ. Here are some verse that state this.

[FONT=kepler-std !important]Galatians 1:4[/FONT]
who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

[FONT=kepler-std !important]1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.[/FONT]

[FONT=kepler-std !important]Colossians 1:13[/FONT]
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[FONT=kepler-std !important]John 16:11[/FONT]
and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

[FONT=kepler-std !important]Colossians 2:15[/FONT]
When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

 

[Hoffco]

2408 is great. Jesus saves. Now you sound like a Christian. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Satan is still free to do as he pleases, under God's control, He has not been destroyed yet, JesusSave is right. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[danschance]

I say the law is still in effect because there are a lot of people who don't know Jesus and they need to know what the rules of God's government are so they know what sin is. Jesus came to fulfill the law not destroy it. I am saved by Grace not the law I know that but the law still stands to show us the way to Jesus and what He can do for us.

Yes Satan was defeated, but he still needs to be destroyed and that has not happened yet.

If by law do you mean the Mosaic law? Christians are not under the Mosaic law. We are under the law of Christ.

Paul said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Gal. 5:18

14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Romans 6;14-15

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 1 Cor. 9:20

3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God[SUP]b[/SUP] and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,[SUP]c[/SUP] blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Phil 3:3-6

Note how Paul calls keeping the law "Loss". He first describes how he was one of the best Jews and then calls it loss for the sake of Christ. In 1 Cor 9:20, Paul states flat out he is not under the law. Some claim Paul remained a torah observant Jew, but his own words state otherwise.

 

[Elin]

I say the law is still in effect because there are a lot of people who don't know Jesus and they need to know what the rules of God's government are so they know what sin is. Jesus came to fulfill the law not destroy it. I am saved by Grace not the law I know that but the law still stands to show us the way to Jesus and what He can do for us.

Yes Satan was defeated, but he still needs to be destroyed and that has not happened yet.

It is your assumption, not Biblical teaching, that Jesus has not fulfilled all his work in the defeat of Satan, sin and death.

 

[danschance]

It is your assumption, not Biblical teaching, that Jesus has not fulfilled all his work in the defeat of Satan, sin and death.

I know what she is saying. Satan is still free to do evil. We are simply waiting for the sentence to be handed out. Satan will never be destroyed, but he will no longer be free to do harm, at some point. Does this mean the Mosaic law is still in force? Not at all. Look over the four verses above which Paul says he is not under the law.

 

[Elin]

I know what she is saying. Satan is still free to do evil. We are simply waiting for the sentence to be handed out. Satan will never be destroyed, but he will no longer be free to do harm, at some point. Does this mean the Mosaic law is still in force? Not at all. Look over the four verses above which Paul says he is not under the law.

Yes, those in Christ are not under the law, for their sin has been judged in Christ.

 

[ivanc0]

There was a specific sect, called The Circumcision, that was also dealt with in Scripture.
But the term Judaizer refers to anyone who preaches faith + Mosaic Law for salvation.

the laws of circumcision and the Sabbath are the 2 laws that the NT writers use to represent the whole Law of Moses. They are the representative laws, just as Elijah and/or Jeremiah are used to represent all the prophets.

...Hum.... Why you do not Include tithing in that list?

 

[ivanc0]

Recently I have noticed a greater influence of modern day Judaizers here at CC. A Modern Judaizer is that believes another gospel. They believe and post another gospel of Christ plus a portion of mosaic law. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to counter Judaizers of his day.

Paul wrote:
The false gospel of the Judaizers never leads one to salvation. They teach a contradiction of grace plus law. The Galation Judaizers taught that one must follow Christ and be circumcised. Today the modern Judaizers teach "Christ plus sabbath observance" or "Christ plus Kosher foods", etc. What they do not realize is that any gospel message of Christ plus anything is a false Gospel. A little leaven leavens the whole dough.

This is why Paul wrote:
This false gospel severs a person from salvation. They are not fit for the kingdom and those who follow them are at risk of being cut off from Christ.

I never wish to get into a debate over denominational theology because some things do not cause a loss of salvation. On the other hand, I feel compelled to warn Judaizers in hopes they turn from the false gospel to the true gospel which saves.

Nice Ideas, But you did not explained how this controversy started,
ACT 15

Paul and Bernabe were converting Gentiles (people of non Jew Race), on those days Jews will discriminate anyone who is non Jew.
Some Pharisees converted to Christ, But as they have that legalistic and tradition oriented mind, went to the places Paul were teaching to "fix things up", So they Try to push the gentiles into "CIRCUMCISION AND OBEDIENCE OF THE LAW OF MOSES".
Paul have a big argument with them, and as there was no agreement, they decided to go an ask the other apostles for their advice.
In this frame acts 15 says the "GENTILES DO NOT HAVE TO OBEY THE LAW".
Now this words seems to scary, No one in this Chat or Out of this Chat has ever been able to explain the council of Jerusalem to me, they always try to work around it.

Could please some one here explain more about the council of Jerusalem?

Thanks.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Yes, those in Christ are not under the law, for their sin has been judged in Christ.

Great post Elin!!!!!