I do not think there is much of a gap in what we are both saying here, the OT saints were justified by faith, and faith brought us to/through the Law of Moses (the Jewish Law) which brought us to the doctrine of Christ with is by grace through faith we have been giving salvation to all who believe on Him, which includes obedient faith.
Salvation Not Possible Without Works
- Thread starter SeaBass
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Please read carefully it is done, not by any of my works. Father's through Son. that is what Father is now doing through Son giving the free gift of new life in the resurrected Christ to us, we do nothing but believe God>
Tell me please about this verse below, as to how anyone can improve on this except to believe God at God's word
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
As a whole is not God through out the word, revealing his Love and Mercy to us all, that do not do right by the nature of the flesh? That we are born selfish and not compassionate, except to those that love us back
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Since only God is good how can anyone else be good?
So then who makes one righteous God or my self works trying to get others pleased by what i do or don't do?
Is God pleased by any flesh other that Christ's?
Tell me please about this verse below, as to how anyone can improve on this except to believe God at God's word
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
As a whole is not God through out the word, revealing his Love and Mercy to us all, that do not do right by the nature of the flesh? That we are born selfish and not compassionate, except to those that love us back
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Since only God is good how can anyone else be good?
So then who makes one righteous God or my self works trying to get others pleased by what i do or don't do?
Is God pleased by any flesh other that Christ's?
May be you have the wrong interpretation of the word, for it is not the word that sets me free, it is the truth of the word that set me free and can you as well, seeing by your posts you might not be set free in Christ yet are you?
John 8:32
and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be freeindeed.
Praying for this to be in you as it is in all the Saints God has claimed
John 8:32
and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be freeindeed.
Praying for this to be in you as it is in all the Saints God has claimed
Lets continue from the verse 22 :
Colossians 1:22-23 (NKJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP] in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- [SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
So indeed the "if" in verse 23 indeed puts condition on continued salvation, you can in fact lose your salvation.
Colossians 1:22-23 (NKJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP] in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- [SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
So indeed the "if" in verse 23 indeed puts condition on continued salvation, you can in fact lose your salvation.
I believe and stand fast in this and is my part to rest in God's finished work through Son Christ
Colossians 1:20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Colossians 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Colossians 1:20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Colossians 1:23 if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
and only by Faith, (beleive can this be done) why?
because As a man thinks to flesh even in trying to be a good two shoes can't not ever of the flesh can man ever be perfect, only through Son God sees us as perfect and teaches us to have no thought just trust and God the Father as you pointed out does what is manifested to us
And you say not so why because maybe you are doing this and causing it, by your own flesh behavior trying to not sin: Which ius great that you want to do what is right, but being in unredeemed flesh you can't ans is why you are continuing in sin as what is what happened to me as well and I was in constant repentance never finalizing that through Son, Christ I am forgiven.
When I first realized this I got worse at sinning, kind of in a sense took it for granted, and felt worse and wanted to go back to the way I was doing it in constant asking for more forgiveness, until I finally saw by God from Father the truth I am forgiven by him through Son whether I sin or not, and that is when I saw; it is all Father and none of me and stepped over the finish line entering into his courts with thanksgiving and praise, have stepped back and forth a few times, learning to stay living above any and all circumstance, Father through Son has made us right with him period no matter if one sins or not
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
because As a man thinks to flesh even in trying to be a good two shoes can't not ever of the flesh can man ever be perfect, only through Son God sees us as perfect and teaches us to have no thought just trust and God the Father as you pointed out does what is manifested to us
And you say not so why because maybe you are doing this and causing it, by your own flesh behavior trying to not sin: Which ius great that you want to do what is right, but being in unredeemed flesh you can't ans is why you are continuing in sin as what is what happened to me as well and I was in constant repentance never finalizing that through Son, Christ I am forgiven.
When I first realized this I got worse at sinning, kind of in a sense took it for granted, and felt worse and wanted to go back to the way I was doing it in constant asking for more forgiveness, until I finally saw by God from Father the truth I am forgiven by him through Son whether I sin or not, and that is when I saw; it is all Father and none of me and stepped over the finish line entering into his courts with thanksgiving and praise, have stepped back and forth a few times, learning to stay living above any and all circumstance, Father through Son has made us right with him period no matter if one sins or not
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
if one does not stand in the Faith, no works here Brother Stand firm in the Faith of Christ. If i could do the works perfect then there is no need for Son Christ is there?
You apparently are working at your salvation in the energy of your own flesh?> claiming it by Faith and is the contradiction
[h=3]Romans 8[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
You apparently are working at your salvation in the energy of your own flesh?> claiming it by Faith and is the contradiction
[h=3]Romans 8[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Were are any works in this at, and it goes on to say we are forgiven:
It is again Faith, are you in the Faith or trying to be Faithful, are we not faithful when we are in the Faith, king of like there are hearers and there are doers of the word.
the word is to believe and we will be saved if we believe and continue in this belief, we will be made to stand god promises this all over the word it is written by Faith if you believe you will be what God has called you to be, but not of works or their would be reason to boast but not before God
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
You believe right? this makes you a Saint now show it by trust in Father through Son it is done
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure
How does one purifieth himself when by Christ he is pure?, see what John is saying? We are pure so walk pure since we are pure by Chirst, this is done by nothing other than belief period no doubts. Any doubts and you are right back in what you escaped
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure
How does one purifieth himself when by Christ he is pure?, see what John is saying? We are pure so walk pure since we are pure by Chirst, this is done by nothing other than belief period no doubts. Any doubts and you are right back in what you escaped
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Your wrong.
If this was the case. Then the jews were right, And paul, Peter and the rest were in error.
You need to face the facts. Your faiht is in yourself. And you ability to do these commands, And not God. Because you have failed to realise the law can not be kept by anyone in a way which could save them, if it could; Christ died in vein (for no reason at all)
Good luck wiht your self righteousness.. .
If this was the case. Then the jews were right, And paul, Peter and the rest were in error.
You need to face the facts. Your faiht is in yourself. And you ability to do these commands, And not God. Because you have failed to realise the law can not be kept by anyone in a way which could save them, if it could; Christ died in vein (for no reason at all)
Good luck wiht your self righteousness.. .
What is this a list of proof texts taken randomly that have the word, flesh and spirit in them?
Some are not even applicable to the discussion.
On the other hand, none of them are regarding flesh at all. The question is does one's work in faith augment salvation (through faith) or is one saved by faith alone.
Some are not even applicable to the discussion.
On the other hand, none of them are regarding flesh at all. The question is does one's work in faith augment salvation (through faith) or is one saved by faith alone.
Which has nothing to do with man. Christ's work is finished for what He did. He saved the world/mankind from death and sin. He did not save you as an individual from the Cross. If so, then why are you even speaking of being saved by faith.
You are confused between the issue of what Christ did for us, which was for the purpose of man being united to Him,. We unite ourselves to Him by faith, so that one can be saved through faith.
There is a huge difference between what Christ did, and man's response to what He did. Christ gave us the free Gift of salvation from death and sin, and then offered union with Him. We can accept His offer or reject it. We can reject it at any time in our lifetime. There is nothing static regarding our relationship with Christ.
You are correct. Adam was created for a purpose. Once Christ reversed the fall for us,(which we cannot do), it is all about why God created us as human beings. Adam was not created just to be an object of admiration by God.
You are confused between the issue of what Christ did for us, which was for the purpose of man being united to Him,. We unite ourselves to Him by faith, so that one can be saved through faith.
There is a huge difference between what Christ did, and man's response to what He did. Christ gave us the free Gift of salvation from death and sin, and then offered union with Him. We can accept His offer or reject it. We can reject it at any time in our lifetime. There is nothing static regarding our relationship with Christ.
You are correct. Adam was created for a purpose. Once Christ reversed the fall for us,(which we cannot do), it is all about why God created us as human beings. Adam was not created just to be an object of admiration by God.
You have a complete misunderstanding of salvation. There is not a single human being that has NOT been redeemed by the Blood of Christ. Col 1:20 which you cited before, as well as John 6:39 attests to it. Every single human being has been given life, Rom 5:18, II Cor 15:22. This is the Gift of salvation (from death and sin). This life is the reversal of the death man suffered through Adam.
You have the same problem that homwardbound. He does not understand the difference of works of the law, which pertains to man saving himself from death and sin, which Christ did for us, from having been saved, man can now rejoin Christ in a union now and for eternity that is dependent on what man does with the Gift of salvation. What we are discussing here has NOTHING to do with the work of Christ. Man cannot effect or affect anything Christ did. What Christ did, has nothing directly to do with what is required of man, IF we decide to enter into Christ.
What Christ did for us, makes it possible for man to be united with God again. It has to do with why man was created in the first place. It has to do with what Adam was supposed to do before he sinned, and lost life for us all.
What Christ did for us, makes it possible for man to be united with God again. It has to do with why man was created in the first place. It has to do with what Adam was supposed to do before he sinned, and lost life for us all.
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Here is the commentaries on this verse of some highly respected theologians.
As you can see, even among Conservative Evangelical Theologians, they cannot seem to quite agree on what it means. I still LEAN towards natural birth because of the OBVIOUS comparison between Natural Birth ans Spiritual Birth in verse six. This was a continuous train of thought in a conversation, WITHOUT CHAPTER NUMBERS AND VERSE NUMBERS. I seems illogical to change the subject from one sentence to the next, therefore I take verse six to be HIS OWN EXPLANATION OF WHAT HE MEANT IN VERSE 5.
How about we ask HIM personally when we get to heaven.
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