SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Yeah, but according to you we need these things IN ADDITION TO JESUS for salvation...
WAS the sacrifice of Jesus good enough to please the Father? YES OR NO!
IF YES...then HIS substitutionary death was sufficient, pleases the Father and earned my salvation...
IF NO.....then Jesus is a weak God if he needs my help to save me....
YES...or .....NO...Which is it Sea Perch?
WAS the sacrifice of Jesus good enough to please the Father? YES OR NO!
IF YES...then HIS substitutionary death was sufficient, pleases the Father and earned my salvation...
IF NO.....then Jesus is a weak God if he needs my help to save me....
YES...or .....NO...Which is it Sea Perch?
1 Cor. 9:24-27
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; [SUP]27 [/SUP]but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; [SUP]27 [/SUP]but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
Yeah no doubt as I can see it now....
Here son I have a birthday gift for you...if you cut the grass and split the wood for the wood stove.....
or
Here Honey....I have a new ring for you.....if you scratch my back and do the dishes...
Can you imagine the audacity and slap in the face of Jesus to say what he accomplished was not sufficient and He needs our help to keep us saved or save us.....
Here son I have a birthday gift for you...if you cut the grass and split the wood for the wood stove.....
or
Here Honey....I have a new ring for you.....if you scratch my back and do the dishes...
Can you imagine the audacity and slap in the face of Jesus to say what he accomplished was not sufficient and He needs our help to keep us saved or save us.....
E
Thank you. You just proves you do not need to work to be saved. Because God already knows if your faith is real or not.
So now your going the other way. God does need you to work to accept your faith, which is it??
No.
God just needs faith.
He knows those who truly have faith will work. and those who have mere(dead faith) belief will not work.
That is why God is the one who decides when to save someone and not men.
So now your going the other way. God does need you to work to accept your faith, which is it??
No.
God just needs faith.
He knows those who truly have faith will work. and those who have mere(dead faith) belief will not work.
That is why God is the one who decides when to save someone and not men.
No it means that individual man has always been incorrect. No man has ever imposed his own ideas upon scripture. The Holy Spirit has guarded and preserved Christ Gospel as it was given ONCE in the beginning to the saints. It has not changed in 2000 years.
always man's fault.
quite the opposite. To rightly divide the Truth one must know the Truth. Divide means to teach. How can you teach somethiong you know nothing about.
This is what all these men have done in the last 500 years. They imposed their meaning upon scripture first, then they procede to divide it within the paradigm of their own interpretation, just like you are doing.
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I would say that of your view. It has never been a teaching of scripture from the beginning. You have not given one piece of evidence that the Apostles taught what you state to the early Church.
As all false teachers, they must rely only upon their own personal interpretation, rather than what scripture actually means. The surest test of false teaching is that if it has not been believed from the beginning it is false.
How can you do that when you don't know what they mean. You are even now trying to determine what it means, and in so doing you are relying upon yourself, a man. You should heed your own words here. Do not depend on man, they have always been wrong, as so you would be also.
But he was taught the scripture. He did not study to determine for himself what they might mean. You have never been taught the Gospel either. You have simply yanked a text, called the Bible, isolated it from its full content, and from its context and set it up so you as an individual can determine just what it might mean. The Bible is NOT a textbook, nor a treatise. It is not the Truth. Christ IS TRUTH. His revelation of which scripture is a part, is a witness to that Truth.
I have never claimed scripture is in error. Jesus condemned the Jews for their traditions adding to the OT oracles, and now we have men creating all kinds of traditions based on their personal interpretation of a text.
Sola scripture is error because man separated the meaning from it so they could determine for themselves what it should mean. The Holy Spirit did not give the Apostles the Bible. They gave to them God's revelation. It is this revelation that was taught in the early Church. They did not even have a Bible as you know it until the 4th century.
[/quote] I learned that Protestants with sola scriptura could not possibly be the ONCE given Gospel. If Christ promised never to leave or forsake His Body and that the Holy Spirit would guard the Gospel and that it would remain as unified as He is with the Father, Protestantism is NOT the Gospel.
It has made Christ's Gospel null and void with its smorgasborg practice of developing one's own religion.
always man's fault.
quite the opposite. To rightly divide the Truth one must know the Truth. Divide means to teach. How can you teach somethiong you know nothing about.
This is what all these men have done in the last 500 years. They imposed their meaning upon scripture first, then they procede to divide it within the paradigm of their own interpretation, just like you are doing.
[/B][/COLOR]
I would say that of your view. It has never been a teaching of scripture from the beginning. You have not given one piece of evidence that the Apostles taught what you state to the early Church.
As all false teachers, they must rely only upon their own personal interpretation, rather than what scripture actually means. The surest test of false teaching is that if it has not been believed from the beginning it is false.
How can you do that when you don't know what they mean. You are even now trying to determine what it means, and in so doing you are relying upon yourself, a man. You should heed your own words here. Do not depend on man, they have always been wrong, as so you would be also.
But he was taught the scripture. He did not study to determine for himself what they might mean. You have never been taught the Gospel either. You have simply yanked a text, called the Bible, isolated it from its full content, and from its context and set it up so you as an individual can determine just what it might mean. The Bible is NOT a textbook, nor a treatise. It is not the Truth. Christ IS TRUTH. His revelation of which scripture is a part, is a witness to that Truth.
I have never claimed scripture is in error. Jesus condemned the Jews for their traditions adding to the OT oracles, and now we have men creating all kinds of traditions based on their personal interpretation of a text.
Sola scripture is error because man separated the meaning from it so they could determine for themselves what it should mean. The Holy Spirit did not give the Apostles the Bible. They gave to them God's revelation. It is this revelation that was taught in the early Church. They did not even have a Bible as you know it until the 4th century.
[/quote] I learned that Protestants with sola scriptura could not possibly be the ONCE given Gospel. If Christ promised never to leave or forsake His Body and that the Holy Spirit would guard the Gospel and that it would remain as unified as He is with the Father, Protestantism is NOT the Gospel.
It has made Christ's Gospel null and void with its smorgasborg practice of developing one's own religion.
You cannot reason with someone who quotes O.T. scripture dealing with a physical aspect when it is applied to N.T. theology and eternal salvation....NAAMAN and his healing has exactly what to do with becoming a child of God thru faith? NOTHING!
Again we see another twisty pretzel from Sea Perch.....
Again we see another twisty pretzel from Sea Perch.....