Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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E
belief minus works = belief only
One does not have to add the word only or alone to have it part of the context,
If I tell yuo to come with the clothes on your back and nothing else. I do not need to say the clothes on your back alone or only, it is infered by the fact I said NOTHING ELSE.
the fact is, Your the one adding to those passages, You are adding the word works, When those passages say no works. so before you start judging people of adding something, you need to look no further than yourself.
They are not faulty questions, but just straight, pointed questions.
Can a Christian still be saved even if he NEVER does any good works?
Above you are aaking rheotoircal questions that show the CHristian MUST do works.
So you are answering my question with a "no" which makse the Christians salation CONDTIONAL upon those works. The Christian CANNOT maintain salvation without doing good works.
Can a Christian still be saved even if he NEVER does any good works?
Above you are aaking rheotoircal questions that show the CHristian MUST do works.
So you are answering my question with a "no" which makse the Christians salation CONDTIONAL upon those works. The Christian CANNOT maintain salvation without doing good works.
Yes, the Law of Christ, so where there is law there too is necessity of obedience to that law. so with what you posted above, what makes you think you do not have to obey this command or any other:
Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
The Church is Christ. Christ is the Head over the Body. The Body consists of human beings who have entered into that Body. It is the Holy Spirit that dwells in that Body, and guards and preserves the Body and the Gospel entrusted to it, as it was given to the Apostles in the beginning. It is that Church that is the pillar and ground of Truth, I Tim 3:15.
The Holy Spirit has been working against man imposed ideas upon Christ's Gospel for 2000 years. No man has ever succeeded in imposing his view upon Christ's Gospel. It has remained unchanged for 2000 years.
This is why I can easily determine that your theory is not of Christ, or the Holy Spirit. It is of man, Luther to be specific, who first broached the idea of "faith alone". It has NEVER been a teaching of scripture.
The Holy Spirit has been working against man imposed ideas upon Christ's Gospel for 2000 years. No man has ever succeeded in imposing his view upon Christ's Gospel. It has remained unchanged for 2000 years.
This is why I can easily determine that your theory is not of Christ, or the Holy Spirit. It is of man, Luther to be specific, who first broached the idea of "faith alone". It has NEVER been a teaching of scripture.
The answer to your question was given by Jesus. John 3:19-20. Pay close attention as there is an absence of works present.
Every man has the ability, the knowledge to choose between good and evil. Part if you will of the curse of sin upon mankind. Still comes down to belief. Broad way or narrow way its still belief. Joshua said it very simply choose ye this day whom ye will serve as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Every man has the ability, the knowledge to choose between good and evil. Part if you will of the curse of sin upon mankind. Still comes down to belief. Broad way or narrow way its still belief. Joshua said it very simply choose ye this day whom ye will serve as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
No, it is a faulty question, because there is no such thing as a christian who would never work.
No.
You add the word must.
I showed how they WILL
A huge difference between must and will.
Must denotes merit. Will denotes being empowered based on gratitude, and not merit
Wrong.
A christian can not lose salvation by not doing work. Because there is no such thing as a christian who would not work out of gratitude and power given them by what God did.
Your teaching merit. There is no merit in salvation. period
No.
You add the word must.
I showed how they WILL
A huge difference between must and will.
Must denotes merit. Will denotes being empowered based on gratitude, and not merit
Wrong.
A christian can not lose salvation by not doing work. Because there is no such thing as a christian who would not work out of gratitude and power given them by what God did.
Your teaching merit. There is no merit in salvation. period
K
Eternally-grateful I respect some one like you that wants to stick hard and fight for what they believe. I however have shown you yesterday when we talked multiple scriptures to prove my point, and I have also given a couple of bible study sites that talk about the issue at hand.
The best thing though is to have an open mind, do not close anything off especially with scripture cause even though I admit I could be wrong in some areas I use to think like you that one could not lose salvation. However through an intensive study I did with the bible and multiple well known preachers finding I found that there are way to many scriptures that point against this notion.
The reason I say keep an open mind is because even Jesus teaches that the full truth will not be revealed tell He returns, and also with Him saying the one who thinks they are wise will be made foolish.
The best thing though is to have an open mind, do not close anything off especially with scripture cause even though I admit I could be wrong in some areas I use to think like you that one could not lose salvation. However through an intensive study I did with the bible and multiple well known preachers finding I found that there are way to many scriptures that point against this notion.
The reason I say keep an open mind is because even Jesus teaches that the full truth will not be revealed tell He returns, and also with Him saying the one who thinks they are wise will be made foolish.
E
No. Because this person never had faith in Christ, Never repented or admited he was a sinner and in danger of eternal death based on what God has said.
This person turns the grace of God to licentiousness. And Jude responds to this quite well.
Jude 1
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God[SUP][b][/SUP] and our Lord Jesus Christ.
This person turns the grace of God to licentiousness. And Jude responds to this quite well.
Jude 1
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into liscentiousness and deny the only Lord God[SUP][b][/SUP] and our Lord Jesus Christ.
E
What you did was show me a few passages taken out of context. They did not prove your point, and I showed yuo WHY they did not prove your point.
Again, I was like you. I thought one could lose salvation. My mind was closed, I trusted the men who taught me that someone can walk away from God.
I did open my mind, That is how I got to where I am today. You are not showing me anything new, I used to believe as you do and made the same arguments.
True in many areas.
But John says I can KNOW I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
If I can know I have it, then it is not hidden. nor do I have to worry if it is hidden..
If I can lose salvation. I can not KNOW I have eternal life. It would be impossible to know somethign which may or may not be true.
And I have no hope.
if i have no hope. I can have no faith.
if i have no faith. Then I am not saved.
see how the downward spiral comes from a belief that eternal life is not eternal. and one can lose it?
Again, I was like you. I thought one could lose salvation. My mind was closed, I trusted the men who taught me that someone can walk away from God.
I did open my mind, That is how I got to where I am today. You are not showing me anything new, I used to believe as you do and made the same arguments.
True in many areas.
But John says I can KNOW I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
If I can know I have it, then it is not hidden. nor do I have to worry if it is hidden..
If I can lose salvation. I can not KNOW I have eternal life. It would be impossible to know somethign which may or may not be true.
And I have no hope.
if i have no hope. I can have no faith.
if i have no faith. Then I am not saved.
see how the downward spiral comes from a belief that eternal life is not eternal. and one can lose it?
Not a single one of thsoe verse said "belef only" saves. There is a world of difference between "belief" and "belief only". If you can change those verses by adding to them then ANYONE can ADD ANYTHING they want to and they no longer have God's word.
And was it a COINCIDENCE that Mk 16:16 or Lk 13<3,4 or Mat 10:32,33 was not on that list? Those are salvic verses as much as the ones that wre listed.
And was it a COINCIDENCE that Mk 16:16 or Lk 13<3,4 or Mat 10:32,33 was not on that list? Those are salvic verses as much as the ones that wre listed.
E
Again
your missing the point.
Paul is talking to people like you. trying to add works to the gospel of grace. He uses abraham to prove we are saved by faith apart from ANY WORK
James is talking to licentious people who have crept in, Who are hearers but not doers. Who claim to have faith, but have lied to themselves. because if they DID HAVE FAITH, They would be like abraham, And do works.
He is not contradicting paul. He agrees with paul
Paul said in eph 2 we are saved by faith. and those who are saved WILL WORK.
James is telling you and I, If we claim we have faith, but do not have the work EVERYONE SAVED BY FAITH WILL HAVE (eph 2: 10) then our faith is DEAD, NON EXISTANT/
your missing the point.
Paul is talking to people like you. trying to add works to the gospel of grace. He uses abraham to prove we are saved by faith apart from ANY WORK
James is talking to licentious people who have crept in, Who are hearers but not doers. Who claim to have faith, but have lied to themselves. because if they DID HAVE FAITH, They would be like abraham, And do works.
He is not contradicting paul. He agrees with paul
Paul said in eph 2 we are saved by faith. and those who are saved WILL WORK.
James is telling you and I, If we claim we have faith, but do not have the work EVERYONE SAVED BY FAITH WILL HAVE (eph 2: 10) then our faith is DEAD, NON EXISTANT/
Well lets correct you again...we comprise the body when we are made part of the body by Christ. We do not enter the body by the church. The Holy Spirit dwells in each individual believer not in the church corporate. The Holy Spirit leads believers into the truth of Gods word because He has heard it from God.
You are slick the church into which we are placed by God is not a building made with hands nor is it an organization run by men. There is a church, the house of God, which is to be the pillar and ground of truth but that is not the body. Paul is instructing Timothy on church order and conduct.
You love to mix figurative and literal so that everything is obscured. It seems that your romanistic tendencies are showing.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are slick the church into which we are placed by God is not a building made with hands nor is it an organization run by men. There is a church, the house of God, which is to be the pillar and ground of truth but that is not the body. Paul is instructing Timothy on church order and conduct.
You love to mix figurative and literal so that everything is obscured. It seems that your romanistic tendencies are showing.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
Your adding work.
Again, Belief minus work is belief and nothing else. which is belief only.
there is a difference between the word dollar. and the words dollar alone also.
but if I tell you I have a dollar. and nothing else. your not going to keep asking if I have anly other money, your going to know. I only have a dollar alone.
Come on man, you can not be that ignorant can you?
I do not have to add the word alone to ANY of those passages. It says belief, thats it. thats all I need to know
K
Eternally-grateful here is another problem there are people out there that are a part of a church. They are only taught what Jesus did for us on the cross. They believe and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, get baptized in His name, and repent for sins at time of confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Their church then tells them from this point forward they can live however they want no matter how good or bad, so some take that as a right to treat people like crap, keep stealing, live provocative lives, and even murder with out having to do anything else.
Well known teachers, preachers, and other members of God's church as come forward saying how this is dangerous teaching which leads some to fall away. They turn from Jesus of following their new master satan.
Well known teachers, preachers, and other members of God's church as come forward saying how this is dangerous teaching which leads some to fall away. They turn from Jesus of following their new master satan.