SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

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Dec 12, 2013
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but the context will tell you what the subject would be.

In Titus 3:5 the works of Righteousness are those Christ did on our behalf, fulfiling the law, and saved mankind from death and sin. It is not refering to the works of righteousness which a believer does as in I John 3:7.
I don't know what works of merit would even be so the person who wrote it would be best to answer it.

Not by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE.....DUDE you can get glasses at Wal-Mart for a few dollars and to equate Titus 3:5 and the works indicated to Jesus on our behalf is to deny what it actually states.....

So.....how many works are required today to keep you secure in your false salvation?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Nope. . .

You really do not know, or understand, the Scriptures well enough to represent them correctly.

I will take the time to unravel and sort out this prinicple for you, so pay attention.

In your inadequate understanding of Scripture, you are:

Firstly, misrepresenting the meaning of righteousness.

Righteousness (justification) is (positional) right standing before God because of
forgiveness of sin through faith by grace, which is salvation (Lk 1:77) from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
on that sin.

Biblical principle #1:
Righteousness
(justification) = salvation.

Secondly, you are confusing two different issues and confounding them into one.

1) the issue of TRUE faith vs. COUNTERFEIT faith,

2) the issue of TO BE SAVED vs. HAVE BEEN SAVED.

Regarding issue 1) TRUE faith vs. COUNTERFEIT faith:

Firstly
, profession of faith is not necessarily possession of true faith, as we see in Mt 7:21-23.
So then, what is the difference between true faith and counterfeit faith,
and how do we know which is which?

The difference is shown in Mt 7:21-23.
True faith obeys, counterfeit faith does not.

Anyone who says they believe, but who does not obey, does not really have true faith,
they have counterfeit faith.
Only true faith automatically saves, counterfeit faith does not save.

Therefore, anyone who says they are saved, but who does not obey, is not saved,

not because he does not have the works necessary for salvation,


but because he does not have the true faith, necessary for salvation,


which true faith automatically saves without any works (Eph 2:8-9).

Disobedience simply manifests that one's faith is counterfeit, rather than true,
and one has not been saved by their counterfeit faith.

Biblical principle #2:

Those who do not obey are not saved, not because they do not have the works
necessary for salvation,

but because they do not have the true faith necessary for salvation,

which counterfeit faith is shown by their disobedience.


Secondly, the true faith which automatically saves is by grace, without any works,
it is 100% a gift of God (Eph 2:8-9).

And this is what you deliberately (it appears to me) confound with the second issue, following:

Regarding issue 2) TO BE SAVED vs. HAVE BEEN SAVED:

As it relates to faith, this issue is very simple.
Paul uses the example of Abraham to show the relation of
faith to righteousness [= salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77)].
Abraham was declared righteous before he had done any works.
His works didn't make him righteous, they simply showed that he was righteous because of his faith.

Only true faith, without works, automatically saves, as a gift of God (Eph 2:8-9).

If I say I have been saved, then I am saying I have true faith,
for only true faith automatically saves without works.
And if I have true faith, then I will be obeying, for true faith obeys.

If I say I am saved, but I am not obeying, I show that I have counterfeit faith, not true faith.
Counterfeit faith does not save.
So if I say I am saved, but show that my faith is counterfeit, then I am deceived, and am not saved.

Biblical Principle #3:
Works are not necessary TO BE SAVED,
works only show that I HAVE BEEN SAVED by a true faith.

These are what you misunderstand and confound
to arrive at your false, twice-condemned gospel (Gal 1:6-9).

Please do not make it necessary to explain these to you again.
Amen and I agree with this scriptural representation of the truth!.......
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Maybe you need to read the scriptures again, because they are pretty simple and pretty clear.
If you do not obey the Gospel, you will be lost.
The gospel which is to be obeyed is "Repent and believe!" (Mk 1:15)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Nope. . .that is your deliberate confounding of

1) true faith vs. counterfeit faith

. . . .with

2) to be saved vs. have been saved,

as shown in posts #551 and #552 above.

You deliberately confound to support your false, twice-condemned gospel (Gal 1:6-9).
Amen and I agree with this as well.....really it comes down to their inability to see biblical truth as you have to be saved (according to the bible) in order to understand the bible....works for or to keep salvation is a false gospel...condemned to hell and all who teach it are false teachers whose judgment is coming.....
 
Jan 19, 2013
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See my post #231 that shows free gifts come with condtions and meeting those conditions cannot earn that free gift.
See my post #558 that shows free gifts are wrought by the power of God and not by man performing any works.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No, the refusal to understand is yours.

God's free gifts are works of his power, not based on man's meeting "conditions."

Faith
is a free gift (Php 1:29; 1Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) by the power of God--no conditions for man to meet.

Repentance is a free gift (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18; 5:31) by the power of God--no conditions for man to meet.

Salvation is a free gift (Eph 2:8-9) by the power of God--no conditions for man to meet.

You don't know the difference between God's free gifts and man's works,
and make God's free gifts into man's works for salvation.
Amen to this as well....he/they refuse to see the truth, as a man that has believed a false gospel is two fold the child of hell and blind to the simple truths that are found in the scriptures...
 
Aug 15, 2009
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The gospel which is to be obeyed is "Repent and believe!" (Mk 1:15)
Matthew 10:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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NO, it has always had the same meaning, the same meaning as given to the Apostles originally. The Gospel was given Once to the saints. It has not changed since that beginning. Because it has never changed we can very easily today, 2000 years later, check against false teachings. A false teaching, always of men, have all originated after the Original Gospel.

yes, it does. It always has had ONE meaning, the Original meaning.

I am, but you are espousing a theory that originated by a man, Luther, at the Reformation 1500 years after the Original was given.

Yes, Christ as Head over His Church, and the Holy Spirit whose purpose is to guard both the Body of Christ and the Gospel entrusted to it. The Church is the ground and pillar of Truth, I Tim 3:15. He guards it against false teachings that it does not teach.

You can argue with the Head, Christ. He seems to have a much different persective than your unscriptual principle of "sola scriptura".
After 500 years of chaos, confusion and division any human being could recognize that scripture alone does not have any authority, but only man imposing his vaunted interpretations against it.

[/COLOR]
You should rethink your heretical stance as it is you that is embracing a false gospel of a different kind that has no power to save....works cannot save or keep saved and you are trusting in your works for salvation<--heretical and =LOST!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Great demonstration of you lack of contextual understanding. You pull out a fragment of a verse and build your doctrine upon it without considering what it is saying.
Paul is most certainly not teaching that grace can be received in vain. Wow you really are unbelievable.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Such confounding has to be deliberate and intentional.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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If your a real disciple of Christ you will obey his commands he gives us grace because he knows we are not perfect and will fail. While I agree we are saved by grace alone if it were not so we would all be screwed. Myself included. However grace is not an excuse to do whatever you want, but is given as a gift to show how much he loves us. We still need to obey that allows him to work through us leading to greater works.
I agree and will add....NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS OP WHO BELIEVES IN MERCY AND GRACE BY FAITH WILL TEACH AND OR SAY THAT WE CAN LIVE ANYWAY THAT WE WANT TO LIVE.....THE CONTENTION IS...

1. Saved by faith through grace based upon the completed work of Christ and the mercy of God as opposed to

2. Saved and or kept saved by our works...

One above is biblical, two gains nothing but hell as it is a gospel of a different kind, has no power to save and is double cursed by God to hell.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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You posted that one saved WILL WORK. Yet the title of the thread says salvation is ONLY possible WITHOUT works.

More contradictions.
More deliberate, intentional and contradictory confounding of true faith vs. counterfeit faith with
will be saved vs. have been saved,
as shown in posts #551 and #552 above.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Matthew 10:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Would you like to put that verse INTO CONTEXT?


16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24 The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!
26 “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[b] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[
c]

37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 “Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”
 
Jan 19, 2013
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What if I gave your kids, out of my good grace, a free trip and free passes to Disney World.

Will you tell your kids just sit here and do nothing and you will see Disney World?

Or will you have your kids do the work of packing their bags, going to the ariport, boarding the plane, landing In Florida, getting a car to take them to Disney Land?
All of which has nothing to do with your paying the price of the tickets.

The trip and passes are still free for them, no matter what they do.