SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[Cassian]

Non responsive.

And in terms of your false representation of the meaning of "works" in the NT,
they never will.

But in terms of the NT meaning of "works" as works of the law, they have presented
Ro 1:17, 3:21; Eph 2:8-9.

However, your self-created blindness bars your own door to seeing God's truth
in his NT word written.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

When one cannot even represent the oppositions view accurately, but create a strawman, how are you going to give any evidence against it. It is not just me, but there are several other posters who have consistently explained it correctly, yet you and others need to mischaracterize it thus setting up a strawman to post supposedly against the opposition.

In this case, the "law of works" has never been a part of your oppositions argument. So why is it continually brought up?

So, again, where is the evidence that scripture actually teaches "faith only"?

 

[gzusfrk]

And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the Word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit, and brings forth some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Matthew 13:23

 

[Apostol2013]

Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:35, 38-39; Philippians 1:6;1 Peter 1:4-5), and Hebrews 6:4-6 confirms that doctrine.


If we could lose our salvation, then we could NEVER EVER get it back Hebrews 6:4-6

If it is possible to sin after salvation, then repent from that sin, and be brought back, then salvation was never lost in the 1st place.

A father does not disown his child every time they make a mistake. No! He disciplines them, but they remain loved, and remain His child.

The point is to get stronger and cleaner the point of losing salvationis knowing the sin and continuing so in that they crucify the lord once more bringing in rememberance as coming to a full knowledge of truth and doing it not to them there is no remission og sin , an unrepentant sin is the cause for

 

[Apostol2013]

An unrepentive sin is the main cause for losing salvation it is written woe to them that call evil good and good evil it is having and exersizing the faith our truth iy is Jesus our Christ Our example the Very God in the flesh that we ought to follow after him losing all self (dying to our flesh ) and following him (living in the Spirit our eternal estate of being with God ) it is written be holy for i sm Holy , it is written why do you call me Lord and do not the things woch i tell you , and a few verses above that it is written the disciple must be as perfect as His master , then we must stay at the door allways guardong the way to let the light shine that others get encouraged for it is also written hereby we perceive the love of Christ that jusy as He laid His life for us we ought to lay our lives down for the brethren , or how about i beseech you therefore by the mercies of Godthat you present your bodies as a living sacrifice for it is your reasonable service , to have mercy is to endure the faith by love out of the abundance of our hearts not of nesecity for the lord loves a cheerful giver we encourage one another by this , this is mercy done with love the love of Christ

 

[Elin]

The gospel which is to be obeyed is "Repent and believe!" (Mk 1:15)

Matthew 10:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP]And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Your point in relation to my post?

 

[Elin]

Didn't say you was joking.....I live in Missouri real close to Potosi Missouri....You want road instructions?...I will even buy the strap hHAHAHAHHAHHA

E-w-w-w-w-w. . .

I see a whuppin' comin'.

 

[notuptome]

An unrepentive sin is the main cause for losing salvation it is written woe to them that call evil good and good evil it is having and exersizing the faith our truth iy is Jesus our Christ Our example the Very God in the flesh that we ought to follow after him losing all self (dying to our flesh ) and following him (living in the Spirit our eternal estate of being with God ) it is written be holy for i sm Holy , it is written why do you call me Lord and do not the things woch i tell you , and a few verses above that it is written the disciple must be as perfect as His master , then we must stay at the door allways guardong the way to let the light shine that others get encouraged for it is also written hereby we perceive the love of Christ that jusy as He laid His life for us we ought to lay our lives down for the brethren , or how about i beseech you therefore by the mercies of Godthat you present your bodies as a living sacrifice for it is your reasonable service , to have mercy is to endure the faith by love out of the abundance of our hearts not of nesecity for the lord loves a cheerful giver we encourage one another by this , this is mercy done with love the love of Christ

This is nonsense. What or who can pluck the sinner from the hand of the Savior? What sin is not covered by the blood of the Savior?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Elin]

We are not examining teaching originating after the gospel writings.
We are examining the gospel writings themselves.

How did you miss that?

Elin,

Yes, I did not miss that. But
the Apostles did not write down everything that they taught to the early Church. Do you have all the exact copy of all the teachings, sermons Paul preached, taugth in Corinth for three years before he wrote the first letter?
Same for Ephesus. To actually know what these letters meant in the context of the whole Gospel given, the Oral teachings, we need the reports of the early Church.
We need their explanations of what they were taught.

So what are the Scriptures, chopped liver?

All that you say boils down to the omission of one basic Biblical principle; i.e.,

everything alleged to be taught by the apostles will agree with what is taught by the apostles in the NT,
for the Word of God does not contradict itself between what is written and what was orally transmitted.

That is the position you are in--alleging teachings by the apostles which contradict their NT writings.

And you feel free to ignore your contradictions of the NT because of your false belief that something apart from Scripture has the authority to override what it sates.

Your self-evident error is an irresolvable contra-Biblical difference between us,
which removes all bases upon which to examine the Scriptures with you.

After all, it was meant to be a Tradtion, something passed down from one generation to the next by teaching and preaching, not be written text.

And you know this how?

That is really lame,
in light of the fact that God's Word in the OT was written down for his people,
and was not entrusted to oral transmission alone, and that record goes all the way back to the origin
of the earth and mankind, as given to Moses by God, as was everything that Moses recorded.

On what basis, other than your lame reasoning, do you assume that God would not have his word written for his NT people, rather than entrusted to oral transmission alone?

Your false beliefs allow you to contradict the word of God written with impunity,
resulting in your false, twice-condemned gospel (Gal 1:6-9).

Your self-created blindness has barred your own door to God's truth in his Word written.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

How can scripture be apart or contradict the source from which they were taken. I know of no teaching that contradicts scripture. They confirm scripture which all was guarded and preserved by the Holy Spirit within the Body of Christ. To doubt means you don't trust the Holy Spirit can keep His word.

Non-responsive to the question.

We have irresolvable differences that remove all bases for examining the Scriptures with you.

You accept an authority outside the Scriptures which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state.

Your self-evident error means

you are wasting your time and ours here.

 

[Elin]

Non responsive.

And in terms of your false representation of the meaning of "works" in Paul,
they never will.

But in terms of Paul's meaning of "works" as works of the law, they have presented
Ro 1:17, 3:21; Eph 2:8-9.

However, your self-created blindness bars your own door to seeing God's truth
in his NT word written.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

When one cannot even represent the oppositions view accurately, but create a strawman, how are you going to give any evidence against it. It is not just me, but there are several other posters who have consistently explained it correctly, yet you and others need to mischaracterize it thus setting up a strawman to post supposedly against the opposition.

In this case, the "law of works" has never been a part of your oppositions argument. So why is it continually brought up?

So, again, where is the evidence that scripture actually teaches "faith only"?

Addressed above.

You are wasting your time and ours here.

 

[Vaudeville]

When one cannot even represent the oppositions view accurately, but create a strawman, how are you going to give any evidence against it. It is not just me, but there are several other posters who have consistently explained it correctly, yet you and others need to mischaracterize it thus setting up a strawman to post supposedly against the opposition.

In this case, the "law of works" has never been a part of your oppositions argument. So why is it continually brought up?

So, again, where is the evidence that scripture actually teaches "faith only"?

Romans 3
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Cassian]

Non-responsive to the question.

We have irresolvable differences that remove all bases for examining the Scriptures with you.

You accept an authority outside the Scriptures which can authorize what the Scriptures do not state.

Your self-evident error means

you are wasting your time and ours here.

The real meaning you cannot accept the authority of Christ and His Gospel as He gave it and preserved it.
True to the nature of man, man must be in authority, in this case over scripture and what it means.
Don't feel alone, you have ample company in the thousands that have done the same as you.

History is not on your side. YOu have Christ's Gospel which has never changed in 2000 years, along side of 500 years of sola scriptura where nothing has yet been determined just what scripture might mean. Men are falling all over each other trying to outdo the next with the next best scheme. You are welcome to the world of sectarian division and chaos.
You should keep your head in the sand otherwise you might get dizzy with all the swirling going on.

 

[Cassian]

Romans 3
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

a long post that is irrelevant to the topic. Again, you don't even understand your opponents position. I have not seen a single opponent of the view indicate anywhere that they did NOT believe that man is justified by faith and not works.

I surely believe in Justification by faith. But your problem is that simply being justified does not save a person. It puts one INTO Christ, puts man into a correct relationship, and man takes possession of his salvation, but he does not have title to it until the end, IF he remains faithful. And being faithful means he does the work of faith, works of righteousness, bears fruit. NO fruit, means no faith, means no salvation, he will not inherit the promise to be with Christ. Very simple instructions from scripture. Never does it teach "faith only" actually condemns it.
So, where is the evidence that "faith only" is a teaching of scripture?

 

[notuptome]

a long post that is irrelevant to the topic. Again, you don't even understand your opponents position. I have not seen a single opponent of the view indicate anywhere that they did NOT believe that man is justified by faith and not works.

I surely believe in Justification by faith. But your problem is that simply being justified does not save a person. It puts one INTO Christ, puts man into a correct relationship, and man takes possession of his salvation, but he does not have title to it until the end, IF he remains faithful. And being faithful means he does the work of faith, works of righteousness, bears fruit. NO fruit, means no faith, means no salvation, he will not inherit the promise to be with Christ. Very simple instructions from scripture. Never does it teach "faith only" actually condemns it.
So, where is the evidence that "faith only" is a teaching of scripture?

Luke 17:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

a long post that is irrelevant to the topic. Again, you don't even understand your opponents position. I have not seen a single opponent of the view indicate anywhere that they did NOT believe that man is justified by faith and not works.

I surely believe in Justification by faith. But your problem is that simply being justified does not save a person. It puts one INTO Christ, puts man into a correct relationship, and man takes possession of his salvation, but he does not have title to it until the end, IF he remains faithful. And being faithful means he does the work of faith, works of righteousness, bears fruit. NO fruit, means no faith, means no salvation, he will not inherit the promise to be with Christ. Very simple instructions from scripture. Never does it teach "faith only" actually condemns it.
So, where is the evidence that "faith only" is a teaching of scripture?

Exactly. But I can almost 100% guarantee you they will argue against you anyways. It doesn't matter how much scripture you show them, they have chosen what they want to believe, and regardless what the Bible says, they will believe what they want.

 

[notuptome]

The real meaning you cannot accept the authority of Christ and His Gospel as He gave it and preserved it.
True to the nature of man, man must be in authority, in this case over scripture and what it means.
Don't feel alone, you have ample company in the thousands that have done the same as you.

History is not on your side. YOu have Christ's Gospel which has never changed in 2000 years, along side of 500 years of sola scriptura where nothing has yet been determined just what scripture might mean. Men are falling all over each other trying to outdo the next with the next best scheme. You are welcome to the world of sectarian division and chaos.
You should keep your head in the sand otherwise you might get dizzy with all the swirling going on.

Peter must have been real dizzy as well. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God does it all man does nothing of his own merit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The real meaning you cannot accept the authority of Christ and His Gospel as He gave it and preserved it.
True to the nature of man, man must be in authority, in this case over scripture and what it means.
Don't feel alone, you have ample company in the thousands that have done the same as you.

History is not on your side. YOu have Christ's Gospel which has never changed in 2000 years, along side of 500 years of sola scriptura where nothing has yet been determined just what scripture might mean. Men are falling all over each other trying to outdo the next with the next best scheme. You are welcome to the world of sectarian division and chaos.
You should keep your head in the sand otherwise you might get dizzy with all the swirling going on.

more fluff, No content.

Not to mention total ignorance. Man must be in authority? Says who? God does not say this, Not to mention we have a whole book which you claim MUST BE interpreted and ruled over by men whoch shows what happens when god puts man in charge.

Abraham - Commited adultry and tried to take things into his own hands
Moses - Did not obey God and because of it did not enter the promised land.
David - Became an adulterous murderer
Elijah - Immediately after the miracle of fire from heaven, went and hid and cried woe is me
Peter. Denys God three times, had to be publically chastened by Paul for his sin against the church.

God did not leave men in charge, He knew better CHRIST IS IN CHARGE, NOT MEN.

History is not on your side, unless you want to follow a bunch of murdering thieving men who claimed to be men of God and killed anyone who di dnot bow to their gospel. The men who ruled the visible church from the 3rd century until the reformation did more damage to the church that the jews in the time of Christ could ever think of doing.

As Elin has asked you. WHy are you hear? You do not want to discuss anything, only attack and puff yourself and other men up.

There is no GOD in your gospel. ONLY MEN

 

[eternally-gratefull]

a long post that is irrelevant to the topic. Again, you don't even understand your opponents position. I have not seen a single opponent of the view indicate anywhere that they did NOT believe that man is justified by faith and not works.

I surely believe in Justification by faith. But your problem is that simply being justified does not save a person. It puts one INTO Christ, puts man into a correct relationship, and man takes possession of his salvation, but he does not have title to it until the end, IF he remains faithful. And being faithful means he does the work of faith, works of righteousness, bears fruit. NO fruit, means no faith, means no salvation, he will not inherit the promise to be with Christ. Very simple instructions from scripture. Never does it teach "faith only" actually condemns it.
So, where is the evidence that "faith only" is a teaching of scripture?

this is what happens when one listens to men and Not God

Justification is a legal term, It means to be declared innocent of all guilt and all charges brought against you. Your church has a history of making symbols and religious defenition of literal things which have true literal meanings.

No one will enter heaven UNLESS they are justified. Justification is what makes one who is guilty clean so that they can enter the presence of God. If one is not justified, they are not saved, and are still dead in their sin.

Stop listening to men and start listening to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly. But I can almost 100% guarantee you they will argue against you anyways. It doesn't matter how much scripture you show them, they have chosen what they want to believe, and regardless what the Bible says, they will believe what they want.

yet more attack.

You have been shown tons and tons of scripture also. Yet you continue to believe what you want.

Are you ever going to actually discuss things? You were asked quite a few questions earlier, yet not a peep. why is that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter must have been real dizzy as well. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God does it all man does nothing of his own merit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

poor Peter, He got it so wrong. Thank God we had some men in the 3rd sentury who could set him straight, or we would all be lost with no hope.. (rolls eyes)

 

[Cassian]

Luke 17:19

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Where does it say, faith only?
it says he was made well. He was put into a correct relationship with Christ. Meaning, He was justified by his faith. so, again it is not even relevant to the topic, since it is not about being justified by faith.