Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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NO, that is NOT what we teach and believe. We are saved by the GRACE of GOD, and in that process HE puts Faith in us as part of HIS free gift to us. GRACE is receiving from GOD what we absolutely do not deserve.
NO, again your concept of what we teach and believe is ALL WRONG. What we know to be the TRUTH, is that GOD's having SAVED us, brings our once Dead to the will of GOD human spirit, to become Eternally Alive to HIS WILL. THUS that new LIVING human spirit in us, WILL WANT TO PLEASE GOD as a way to LOVE HIM BACK for having SAVED US. The total Lack of that Desire to LOVE GOD by doing what Pleases HIM or the abandonment of it, never to return to GOD, simply validates that what they were calling FAITH, is a Counterfeit of the real McCoy. Genuine SALVATION (past tense) always produces LOVE for GOD that manifests itself in good works and hunger for HIS WORD. And feeding on HIS WORD, will always mature that Eternally Living human spirit, thus we get better at LOVING GOD, and it comes out as GOOD WORKS.
See how unbelievably far off your understanding of what we teach and believe is? Are there prodigals that wonder away from GOD? YES, but IF THEY REALLY WERE SAVED (past tense) they will, sooner or later, repent and return to LOVING GOD.
We are not bouncing, we are genuinely Walking that Narrow Road of LOVING and Submitting to Jesus Christ as our LORD and MASTER. You don't get a Yes or No answer, because your questions about our Beliefs are based on total falsehoods, making those questions invalid either way.
NO, again your concept of what we teach and believe is ALL WRONG. What we know to be the TRUTH, is that GOD's having SAVED us, brings our once Dead to the will of GOD human spirit, to become Eternally Alive to HIS WILL. THUS that new LIVING human spirit in us, WILL WANT TO PLEASE GOD as a way to LOVE HIM BACK for having SAVED US. The total Lack of that Desire to LOVE GOD by doing what Pleases HIM or the abandonment of it, never to return to GOD, simply validates that what they were calling FAITH, is a Counterfeit of the real McCoy. Genuine SALVATION (past tense) always produces LOVE for GOD that manifests itself in good works and hunger for HIS WORD. And feeding on HIS WORD, will always mature that Eternally Living human spirit, thus we get better at LOVING GOD, and it comes out as GOOD WORKS.
See how unbelievably far off your understanding of what we teach and believe is? Are there prodigals that wonder away from GOD? YES, but IF THEY REALLY WERE SAVED (past tense) they will, sooner or later, repent and return to LOVING GOD.
We are not bouncing, we are genuinely Walking that Narrow Road of LOVING and Submitting to Jesus Christ as our LORD and MASTER. You don't get a Yes or No answer, because your questions about our Beliefs are based on total falsehoods, making those questions invalid either way.
Since your criteria is constantly changing and never clearly defined I suggest you never will achieve a satisfactory answer. Just as well since you will reject any reasonable answer if you do not agree with it.
You operate with circular reasoning and ask a question to which you do not really want an answer.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You operate with circular reasoning and ask a question to which you do not really want an answer.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Faith only>>>>>>>>>>>>saved>>>>>>>>>>>then do works
That initial "faith only" is dead being void of works.
Who is it that God saves and why does he save them while leaving others lost? What separates/differentiates the saved from the lost?
(The devils have belief only yet will not be saved, so belief only cannot be what separates the saved from the lost)
Some quotes (in blue) from your post:
"Genuine SALVATION (past tense) always produces LOVE for GOD that manifests itself in good works and hunger for HIS WORD."
The implication of this is you have one saved BEFORE he even loves God, which is not possible at all.
"What we know to be the TRUTH, is that GOD's having SAVED us, brings our once Dead to the will of GOD human spirit, to become Eternally Alive to HIS WILL."
What if God does not bring my dead spirit to life and therefore I am lost. Whose fault is it that I am lost?
The prodigal son "came to himself" and returned to his father. So man has the will within himslef to choose to obey God or not, and those that choose to obey are the ones that will be saved, Heb 5:9.
Even though eternal life is spoken of in past tense in some verses, it is not something one possesses in this life.
1 Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."
Eternal life is a promise. A promise is something that has not yet been realized for if it has been realized, it is no longer a promise but reality.
Lk 18:30 "Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."
Everlasting life is in the world to come, not in this world. In1 Cor 15:53 Paul explains "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality"
One cannot possess eternal life in this mortal, corruptible eixistence.
Eternal life is spoken in past tense in the sense that God's promises are so certain sometimes those promises are spoken of in past tense even though it has not happened.
Joshua 6:2 "And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour."
God's promise to give Jericho to Israel was so certain, if they did as God said, that this verse speaks of God in the past tense as 'have given' them the city even though Israel was still camped outside the walls of the city.
In Rom 4 Paul quotes Gen 17:5 that says "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee."
God in the past tense said "I have made thee" even though Isaac through whom this promise would be fullfilled was not even born. Again, God's promises are so certain they are sometimes spoken of in past tense. In Rom 4:17 Paul, quoting Gen 17:5, said "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
So eternal life for those that continue to obey Christ, Heb 5:9, is so certain it is sometimes spoken of in past tense.
Again:
Faith only advocates says one is saved by a dead faith only. They claim it is AFTER one is saved that he does works.
What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian.
If they say "yes" then they are making those post-salvation works necessary to salvation.
If they answer no" then they are saying a Christian does not have to do any works; no repentance, no confession, no baptism, no good works in helping fellow Christians and yet still be saved.....(which of course is not possible).
So this is why they are bouncing around all over the place and trying to avoid giving a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the questions I ask.
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If faith is a work it is a work that only God can do. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17 God creates faith in the heart of man through His word and His Holy Spirit. Isaiah says that the word of God goes forth and accomplishes that to which God has purposed it. Isa 55:11
All the works required for salvation God has done that is why God offers salvation as a gift to who so ever will receive it. God then seals us with His Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption when Christ shall present us with great joy before the Father in heaven. We are the heirs of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
All the works required for salvation God has done that is why God offers salvation as a gift to who so ever will receive it. God then seals us with His Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption when Christ shall present us with great joy before the Father in heaven. We are the heirs of salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Acts 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: ...
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
I am now by Faith a responder to the creator, where as before this truth came to be; I was an imitator ( initiator) trying to get God to respond to me by what I was doing or not doing
Then God showed me I am the creation not the creator as what flesh is a creator
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: ...
Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
I am now by Faith a responder to the creator, where as before this truth came to be; I was an imitator ( initiator) trying to get God to respond to me by what I was doing or not doing
Then God showed me I am the creation not the creator as what flesh is a creator
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Unconditional:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Satan is pretty smart at bringing certain issue's out of his dark book of plans. Just to get Christians up in arms and to take our minds off of Jesus and on to doing carnal warfare. Bring your minds back to the cross and what the cross did for the whole world. It is not Gods intent for us to take up arms, as it were, against people. We are instructed to pray and deliver the Good News Gospel to citizens of this world. If they hear of Grace and believe in their hearts of the love of God, they shall be saved. God has already forgiven all thru the action of the cross. So now, come on and get your noses out of other peoples business and do the work of God. It is a work of faith and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. If you work out of legalistic mind set, you work in vain.
So repeat truth to self and all:
[FONT="]I am complete in Christ who is the[/FONT][FONT="]
Head of all principality and power
(Colossians [/FONT][FONT="]2:10[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been crucified with Christ
(Galatians [/FONT][FONT="]2:20[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I am dead to sin (Romans 6:2).
I have been made alive with Christ
(Ephesians 2:5).
I am free from the law of sin and
death (Romans 8:2).
I am born of God, and the evil one
does not touch me (1 John [/FONT][FONT="]5:18[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I am holy and without blame
before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4;
1 Peter [/FONT][FONT="]1:16[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been given the peace of God
that passes all understanding
(Philippians 4:7).
I have the Greater One living in me
and greater is He who is in me
than he who is in the world (1 John
4:4).
I have received the gift of
righteousness and reign in life by
Jesus Christ (Romans [/FONT][FONT="]5:17[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have received the spirit of wisdom
and revelation in the knowledge of
Jesus (Ephesians [/FONT][FONT="]1:17[/FONT][FONT="]-18).[/FONT][FONT="]
I can do all things through Christ
Jesus who strengthens me
(Philippians [/FONT][FONT="]4:13[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I show forth the praises of God
who has called me out of darkness
into His marvelous light (1 Peter
[/FONT]
So repeat truth to self and all:
[FONT="]I am complete in Christ who is the[/FONT][FONT="]
Head of all principality and power
(Colossians [/FONT][FONT="]2:10[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been crucified with Christ
(Galatians [/FONT][FONT="]2:20[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I am dead to sin (Romans 6:2).
I have been made alive with Christ
(Ephesians 2:5).
I am free from the law of sin and
death (Romans 8:2).
I am born of God, and the evil one
does not touch me (1 John [/FONT][FONT="]5:18[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I am holy and without blame
before Him in love (Ephesians 1:4;
1 Peter [/FONT][FONT="]1:16[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have been given the peace of God
that passes all understanding
(Philippians 4:7).
I have the Greater One living in me
and greater is He who is in me
than he who is in the world (1 John
4:4).
I have received the gift of
righteousness and reign in life by
Jesus Christ (Romans [/FONT][FONT="]5:17[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I have received the spirit of wisdom
and revelation in the knowledge of
Jesus (Ephesians [/FONT][FONT="]1:17[/FONT][FONT="]-18).[/FONT][FONT="]
I can do all things through Christ
Jesus who strengthens me
(Philippians [/FONT][FONT="]4:13[/FONT][FONT="]).[/FONT][FONT="]
I show forth the praises of God
who has called me out of darkness
into His marvelous light (1 Peter
[/FONT]
Faith true in Father through Son produces Father's works of Son through me while i am at rest in Father's finished works since the foundation of this world as in Hebrews 3 and 4
I am rested and work while at rest , no stress, no worries, as just do, with no concern of being rewarded,
Thanks just thought to be clear, it is all God no matter what way anyone slices, dices and or cubes the truth of God's unfathomable love to any flesh, and is why without being born again all flesh love is fruitless and nothing more than a clanging symbol
I am rested and work while at rest , no stress, no worries, as just do, with no concern of being rewarded,
Thanks just thought to be clear, it is all God no matter what way anyone slices, dices and or cubes the truth of God's unfathomable love to any flesh, and is why without being born again all flesh love is fruitless and nothing more than a clanging symbol
E
No,
If people would use logic. they would say what you have faith in is the one who will get the credit.
If you have faith in self. You will work to save self. and yuo will boast about this
If you have faith of God. You will fall on your knees and trust in the work of God. And God gets ALL the glory.
If people would use logic. they would say what you have faith in is the one who will get the credit.
If you have faith in self. You will work to save self. and yuo will boast about this
If you have faith of God. You will fall on your knees and trust in the work of God. And God gets ALL the glory.
E
Yes.
From the time he is saved, until the time he does his first work he is saved, If he is like the thief on the cross. and dies before he has a time to work, he is still saved.
Now when are you going to answer. Can a person who has true faith, and lives long enough to do something, Can he NOT do any work?
Is his work based on his faith, or is his faith based on his work?
But you will not answer. Yuo will keep asking the same question, and demand answer, yet not answer anyone elses questions