Good Friday and Easter Sunday

[just-me]

it -does- matter because the erroneous 'wednesday theory' appears to be a source of severe pride and self righteousness and an attitude of condemnation for a number of people...

Jesus' death burial and resurrection has to match Exodus 12:26 through Exodus 15:25.

Exodus 12:26-28
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say , It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped .
28 And the children of Israel went away , and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

Exodus 15:22-25
22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
23 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah.
24 And the people murmured against Moses, saying , What shall we drink ?
25 And he cried unto the LORD; and the LORD shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet : there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,

It also has to match Jonah's time in the fish according to the words of Jesus Himself.

Matthew 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[Dude653]

the vast majority of passover traditions are not in the bible...

if you have four cups of wine...that isn't in the bible...
the specific number of matzot to be used isn't in the bible...
if you do the special hand washings...those aren't in the bible...
the salt water isn't in the bible...
the afikoman isn't in the bible...
the 'cup of elijah' isn't in the bible...
charoset...delicious but not in the bible...

and from the responses to this thread it appears that at least some people here have been doing it on a day other than the one indicated in the bible...oops...

with that said...i am not a legalist so feel free to do all those things and whatever others you want...but i hope you allow everyone else the same freedom too...

Ok, so the actual details of the passover sadar are not mentioned in the Bible, but the act of celebrating it is.One can easily do a bit of research to find out the details

 

[john832]

regardless of what names you use to refer to the days jesus was crucified and resurrected...the scriptural evidence proves that the crucifixion was on a friday and the resurrection was on a sunday...

Then simply count three days AND three nights from Friday Sunset to Sunday morning before daylight for me.

also easter has absolutely nothing to do with ishtar...they just sound somewhat alike...especially to people who don't know the hebrew alphabet from the roman alphabet... ishtar is from the akkadian for 'she who waters'...easter has a completely different word origin that ultimately goes back to the latin 'eostarum' which means 'dawn'... your associating the two makes about as much sense as claiming parakeets are divine because 'parakeet' sounds like 'paraklete'

You really need to look into Semiramis, Nimrod and Tammuz, later identified as Isis, Osiris and Horus. She is also identified as Astarte in the Greek...

"The first thing we must understand is that professing Christians were not the only ones who celebrated a festival called "Easter."
"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.
In those ancient times, there was a man named Nimrod, who was the grandson of one of Noah's son named Ham.
Ham had a son named Cush who married a woman named Semiramis.Cush and Semiramis then had a son named him "Nimrod."
After the death of his father, Nimrod married his own mother and became a powerful King.
The Bible tells of of this man, Nimrod, in Genesis 10:8-10 as follows: "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad,and Calneh, in the land of Shinar."
Nimrod became a god-man to the people and Semiramis, his wife and mother, became the powerful Queen of ancient Babylon.
Nimrod was eventually killed by an enemy, and his body was cut in pieces and sent to various parts of his kingdom.
Semiramis had all of the parts gathered, except for one part that could not be found.
That missing part was his reproductive organ. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod could not come back to life without it and told the people of Babylon that Nimrod had ascended to the sun and was now to be called "Baal", the sun god.
Queen Semiramis also proclaimed that Baal would be present on earth in the form of a flame, whether candle or lamp, when used in worship.
Semiramis was creating a mystery religion, and with the help of Satan, she set herself up as a goddess.
Semiramis claimed that she was immaculately conceived.
She taught that the moon was a goddess that went through a 28 day cycle and ovulated when full.
She further claimed that she came down from the moon in a giant moon egg that fell into the Euphrates River.
This was to have happened at the time of the first full moon after the spring equinox.
Semiramis became known as "Ishtar" which is pronounced "Easter", and her moon egg became known as "Ishtar's" egg."
Ishtar soon became pregnant and claimed that it was the rays of the sun-god Baal that caused her to conceive.
The son that she brought forth was named Tammuz.
Tammuz was noted to be especially fond of rabbits, and they became sacred in the ancient religion, because Tammuz was believed to be the son of the sun-god, Baal. Tammuz, like his supposed father, became a hunter.
The day came when Tammuz was killed by a wild pig.
Queen Ishtar told the people that Tammuz was now ascended to his father, Baal, and that the two of them would be with the worshippers in the sacred candle or lamp flame as Father, Son and Spirit.
Ishtar, who was now worshipped as the "Mother of God and Queen of Heaven", continued to build her mystery religion.
The queen told the worshippers that when Tammuz was killed by the wild pig, some of his blood fell on the stump of an evergreen tree, and the stump grew into a full new tree overnight. This made the evergreen tree sacred by the blood of Tammuz.
She also proclaimed a forty day period of time of sorrow each year prior to the anniversary of the death of Tammuz.
During this time, no meat was to be eaten.
Worshippers were to meditate upon the sacred mysteries of Baal and Tammuz, and to make the sign of the "T" in front of their hearts as they worshipped.
They also ate sacred cakes with the marking of a "T" or cross on the top.
Every year, on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox, a celebration was made.
It was Ishtar's Sunday and was celebrated with rabbits and eggs.
Ishtar also proclaimed that because Tammuz was killed by a pig, that a pig must be eaten on that Sunday.
By now, the readers of this tract should have made the connection that paganism has infiltrated the contemporary "Christian" churches, and further study indicates that this paganism came in by way of the Roman Catholic System.
The truth is that Easter has nothing whatsoever to do with the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We also know that Easter can be as much as three weeks away from the Passover, because the pagan holiday is always set as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.
Some have wondered why the word "Easter" is in the the King James Bible.
It is because Acts, chapter 12, tells us that it was the evil King Herod, who was planning to celebrate Easter, and not the Christians.
The true Passover and pagan Easter sometimes coincide, but in some years, they are a great distance apart.
So much more could be said, and we have much more information for you, if you are a seeker of the truth.
We know that the Bible tells us in John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
The truth is that the forty days of Lent, eggs, rabbits,hot cross buns and the Easter ham have everything to do with the ancient pagan religion of Mystery Babylon.These are all antichrist activities!
Satan is a master deceiver, and has filled the lives of well-meaning, professing Christians with idolatry.
These things bring the wrath of God upon children of disobedience, who try to make pagan customs of Baal worship Christian.
You must answer for your activities and for what you teach your children.
These customs of Easter honor Baal, who is also Satan, and is still worshipped as the "Rising Sun" and his house is the "House of the Rising Sun."
How many churches have "sunrise services" on Ishtar's day and face the rising sun in the East?
How many will use colored eggs and rabbit stories, as they did in ancient Babylon.
These things are no joke, any more than Judgement day is a joke.
I pray to God that this tract will cause you to search for more truth.
We will be glad to help you by providing more information and by praying for you. These are the last days, and it is time to repent, come out and be separate" - David Meyer

I don't know this guy, but he has the history correct.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

nope scripture doesn't say anything about seventy two hours - but it does say three days and three nights. Nor does scripture say that there isn't 24 hours in a day - why would I assume that the days were any different than they are now? EXCEPT for the fact that days were reckoned from sunset to sunset.

I don't see how I have 'insisted that scripture is in hopeless contradiction'.

Facts we know - 1) Christ died around 3:00pm and had to be buried before sunset that day because the following day was a 'high Sabbath', a special holy day, [John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)] . . . not the regular weekly sabbath. 2) He was to be in the grave three days and three nights. He was raised the third day [1 Cor. 15:4] 3) He was already gone very early in the morning of the first day of the week [Luke 24:1] - at the rising of the sun [Mark 16:2]; as it began to dawn the first day of the week [Matt. 28:1]; the first day of the week - while it was yet dark [John 20:1]

you would assume that the days were counted differently because -scripture- assumes that...as i proved from acts 10 where seventy-two hours is called 'four days'...

the first 'fact' you list is a misconception...it is scripturally and logically -impossible- for the sabbath after jesus' death to have been anything -other- than the weekly saturday sabbath...a festival sabbath on the sixteenth of the month simply -did not exist-...as i proved from scripture in my first post in this thread...

 

[john832]

you would assume that the days were counted differently because -scripture- assumes that...as i proved from acts 10 where seventy-two hours is called 'four days'...

the first 'fact' you list is a misconception...it is scripturally and logically -impossible- for the sabbath after jesus' death to have been anything -other- than the weekly saturday sabbath...a festival sabbath on the sixteenth of the month simply -did not exist-...as i proved from scripture in my first post in this thread...

You have yet to prove three days and three nights means a day and a half to me.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The Jews were killing the Passover lambs on the afternoon of the 14th at about 3:00pm. Guess Who else died at that time? Perfect timing to coincide with the symbolism of the death of the Passover lambs, the Lamb of God died.

this is simply incorrect...jesus did not die while the passover lambs were being slaughtered...he had already eaten the passover seder which obviously took place -after- the lambs were killed...

 

[Street]

How can the dead do anything but walk around dead. If such is the case then how can they clean themselves??? How can we in the state that we are in as far as the dead is concerned ever get clean by ourselves??? That's what makes GraceAlone so paramount to growth.

 

[SarahM777]

this is simply incorrect...jesus did not die while the passover lambs were being slaughtered...he had already eaten the passover seder which obviously took place -after- the lambs were killed...

OK So how do you reconcile these verses in which John clearly says the Passover HAS NOT YET TAKEN PLACE?

John 13

13 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus.3 Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God;4 so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist.5 After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

21 After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”
22 His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24 Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.”
25 Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?”
26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29 Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor. 30 As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

John 18

28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace,because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

John 19


12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”
13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.
“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.
15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”
“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.
“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

John very clearly does NOT say it was the preparation day for the Sabbath but that it was the preparation day of the PASSOVER.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

you would assume that the days were counted differently because -scripture- assumes that...as i proved from acts 10 where seventy-two hours is called 'four days'...

the first 'fact' you list is a misconception...it is scripturally and logically -impossible- for the sabbath after jesus' death to have been anything -other- than the weekly saturday sabbath...a festival sabbath on the sixteenth of the month simply -did not exist-...as i proved from scripture in my first post in this thread...

Actually you haven't really 'proven' anything. . . . Rachel - 72 hours is not a concept that was just contrived . . . I never assumed the days were counted differently - you told me the days were not 24 hour days and that I shouldn't assume that the days then were the same as now.

I would just like to ask - if a day is 12 hours and a night is 12 hours - then stands to reason that what is considered a "day" is 24 hours. Now - if someone is supposed to be in the belly of a whale (or in the heart of the earth) for 3 days (3x12=36hrs) and 3 nights (3x12=36hrs) wouldn't that be 72 hours? AND how is that concept just invented in the past few decades? John 11:9-10 - does he not only urge us to walk in the day (light) so that we don't stumble; he even lets us know how many hours are in a day . . . . . and no one has a stopwatch out - but the word of God is pure and true - the words are placed where they are placed and say what they say in order to provide a truth - And I do apologize but could you please reference Acts 10 - where 4 days are 72 hours? I have read and re-read and I can't see it.

And excuse me but yes there were High Sabbaths or High holy days that occured in the middle of the week (would have been the 15th Nisan) and were not considered the weekly sabbath. John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)] - What is 'the preparation' speaking about; i.e. the preparation for the high day, special sabbath. . . . . .

 

[KohenMatt]

We celebrate many secular holidays that aren't mentioned in the Bible. Birthdays, Memorial Day, 4th of July, etc. These are all holidays that celebrate humans and our achievements. What's wrong with a holiday, based upon biblical concepts such as the crucifixion and resurrection, that celebrates God rather than humans? Bringing up Ishtar doesn't really make any sense because nobody is using this holiday to worship Ishtar. Instead they are using it to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I don't really understand the problem here. Yes, Easter isn't mentioned in the Bible. However what it celebrates is central to our faith: the resurrection of Christ.

Skipp,

There's a difference though in civil and secular holidays, and holidays that are intended to worship God, but only exist because people were worshipping pagan gods first. No one today would be celebrating resurrection sunday if some people who didn't truly love God decided to start a celebration mixing Ishtar and Jesus.

 

[john832]

this is simply incorrect...jesus did not die while the passover lambs were being slaughtered...he had already eaten the passover seder which obviously took place -after- the lambs were killed...

Well although scripture says this, it must be incorrect because it doesn't fit a Good Friday, Ishtar Sunday myth?

So the authority for the truth is what the Jews did in Christ's day not what the scripture says?

Ok, then explain to me about being taken down from the stake before the high day while being crucified on the high day.

Now count three days AND three nights from Friday sunset to before dawn on Sunday.

 

[john832]

Actually you haven't really 'proven' anything. . . . Rachel - 72 hours is not a concept that was just contrived . . . I never assumed the days were counted differently - you told me the days were not 24 hour days and that I shouldn't assume that the days then were the same as now.

I would just like to ask - if a day is 12 hours and a night is 12 hours - then stands to reason that what is considered a "day" is 24 hours. Now - if someone is supposed to be in the belly of a whale (or in the heart of the earth) for 3 days (3x12=36hrs) and 3 nights (3x12=36hrs) wouldn't that be 72 hours? AND how is that concept just invented in the past few decades? John 11:9-10 - does he not only urge us to walk in the day (light) so that we don't stumble; he even lets us know how many hours are in a day . . . . . and no one has a stopwatch out - but the word of God is pure and true - the words are placed where they are placed and say what they say in order to provide a truth - And I do apologize but could you please reference Acts 10 - where 4 days are 72 hours? I have read and re-read and I can't see it.

And excuse me but yes there were High Sabbaths or High holy days that occured in the middle of the week (would have been the 15th Nisan) and were not considered the weekly sabbath. John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)] - What is 'the preparation' speaking about; i.e. the preparation for the high day, special sabbath. . . . . .

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to peacefulbeliever again

 

[KohenMatt]

the vast majority of passover traditions are not in the bible...

if you have four cups of wine...that isn't in the bible...
the specific number of matzot to be used isn't in the bible...
if you do the special hand washings...those aren't in the bible...
the salt water isn't in the bible...
the afikoman isn't in the bible...
the 'cup of elijah' isn't in the bible...
charoset...delicious but not in the bible...

and from the responses to this thread it appears that at least some people here have been doing it on a day other than the one indicated in the bible...oops...

with that said...i am not a legalist so feel free to do all those things and whatever others you want...but i hope you allow everyone else the same freedom too...

You're right. I don't do many of those things myself. When you look at scripture, there isn't a whole lot of specific instruction on how to celebrate Passover, just that it's to be celebrated with a few key instructions. So people definitely have the freedom to do that, assuming the traditions are not in direct conflict with Scripture.

My point though, is at least Passover is in the Bible and is an instruction given by God for His people to celebrate.

Easter and Christmas are not.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Keep this firmly in mind.



Well so much for your fanciful idea that Christ was crucified on the 15th, the First Day of Unleavened Bread, the HIGH DAY.

The Last Supper and time of the Passover Feast

Now remember about no work and the shops being closed?

Mar 15:46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
Mar 15:47 And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.

So Christ is entombed and the stone rolled in place. Sealed as it were.

Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

Now remember this was about sunset and the tomb is sealed.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Bringing the spices - To embalm the body of our Lord: but Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea had done this before the body was laid in the tomb. See Joh_19:39, Joh_19:40. But there was a second embalming found necessary: the first must have been hastily and imperfectly performed; the spices now brought by the women were intended to complete the preceding operation.

Where did they get the spices? Remember in that day a lot was used…

What is significant is the amount of spice brought to the tomb; it is estimated to be anywhere between seventy-five to hundred pounds. This is a huge amount; the common poor person would not be able to afford any spices to bury their loved ones. Those better off could afford some but not usually this amount. This is enough spice for the burial of a king.

Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

So, we have the death and burial and then the First Day of Unleavened Bread. They could not obtain spices because all the stores are closed. So when did they get the spices? Friday, they obtained them Friday and then rested according to what?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

What Sabbath is commanded in the Commandments? The Feast Days? Nope, the seventh day Sabbath. The second Sabbath that week.

So here is the scenario…

Wednesday – Christ crucified and buried just before sunset.

Thursday – The First Day of Unleavened Bread, the High Day, no work is done and no spices obtained or prepared

Friday – the women obtained and prepared spices and then rested according to the Commandment.

Saturday – Sabbath, no work and no spices

Sunday – Women go there before dawn (John 20:1, still dark) and Christ is already gone.

The Good Friday, Ishtar Sunday myth fits none of the scriptures.

the jewish leaders -did- arrest jesus during the passover...that is clear from scripture because he was arrested right after the seder... of course they hadn't -wanted- to arrest jesus during the feast...but things obviously didn't go according to plan...their attempts at arresting him before the feast had failed...and they were dependent on judas iscariot who led them to jesus during the passover night... evidently they were desperate to get rid of jesus and prioritized that over every other consideration including their previous desire to arrest him before the feast...

your scenario is unworkable and unbiblical...here is the actual sequence of events...with scripture evidence for the statements involving the spices and the burial...

-friday-
passover day...the first day of unleavened bread...which had begun thursday night with the seder...
the crucifixion of jesus...death of jesus around 3:00 in the afternoon...
joseph of arimathea requests jesus' body from pilate...the request is granted...matthew 27:27:57-58...mark 15:43-45...luke 23:50-52...john 19:38...
nicodemus brings myrrh and aloes for the burial...john 19:39...
joseph and nicodemus bury jesus in the tomb...observed by mary magdalene and mary mother of joses...matthew 27:59-61...mark 15:46-47...luke 23:53-55...john 19:40-42...
the stone is placed in front of the tomb...matthew 27:60...mark 15:46
the women prepare spices at home in the remaining hours of friday...luke 23:56...
weekly sabbath begins at sunset...

-saturday-
the weekly sabbath...considered a 'high sabbath' because of its relation to the passover week...second day of the feast of unleavened bread...
the women rest...luke 23:56...
priests and pharisees demand permission from pilate to secure jesus' tomb...permission is granted...a seal is placed on the tomb and a guard is posted...matthew 27:62-66...
the women are able to buy more spices after sunset...mark 16:1...

-sunday-
day of firstfruits...third day of the feast of unleavened bread...
the resurrection of jesus...
the women go to anoint jesus' body with their spices...mark 16:1-3...luke 24:1...
the women discover the empty tomb...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Well the three days and three nights is in Mat 12:39-40. We also have...

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

within three days.

Mat 17:23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

on the third day

Mat 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

after three days

The only period of time that can fit these three different descriptions is exactly three days and we know that a day is an evening and a morning.

i already proved from acts 10 that partial days were counted as days in their own right...

wednesday to sunday would have been counted as -five- days according to scripture's own day counting convention...so your theory contradicts matthew 27:63 and john 2:19 which both say jesus rose after three days...

so your insistence on seventy-two hours...a modern fringe tradition...sets matthew 12:39-40 in contradiction against the rest of scripture...

you know your interpretation is wrong when it -creates- contradictions!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

And the reason for that is because the High Day, the First Day of Unleavened Bread, the fifteenth of the month, began at sunset.



In other words, the very One who spoke this...

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

In other words the One who spoke the above missed it and was actually offered as the Passover on the fifteenth? On the high day?

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I would like to see the explanation as to why they broke their legs (Christ excepted) and took them down off the stakes in a hustle before the high day if they were hanging there on the high day.

the slaughtering of the passover lambs was at twilight according to God's command...

exodus 12:6..."You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight."

jesus did not die at twilight...scripture says he died in the middle of the afternoon...so your insistence that jesus died as the passover lambs were being killed is in direct contradiction to scripture...it is just a quaint but -false- tradition you hold to...

and as i already pointed out...jesus had already eaten the passover seder with his disciples before he died...you can't eat the seder before the lambs are killed...

regarding why it was necessary to take jesus down from the cross the same day he was crucified...there is this law...

deuteronomy 21:22-23..."If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance."

a body hanging overnight defiles the land...so to leave jesus on the cross after sunset would have defiled the land in the middle of the feast of unleavened bread...it would have been a -major- scandal that would have brought the entire remainder of the feast to a screeching halt...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

By the way, one of the abominations that He hates is this...

Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Now what time of the day could you face East and worship the sun? Sunrise. Ishtar morning sunrise service.

actually the sun is in the eastern half of the sky until noon...not just at sunrise...

also ishtar was not a solar deity anyway...so your attempt to connect sunrise services with ishtar worship does not follow...

 

[Dude653]

Ishtar was a fertility goddess

 

[Starcrash]

having established that jesus was crucified on a friday...it is relatively easy to prove that jesus rose on a sunday...here are the relevant scriptures...

matthew 28:1..."Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave."
mark 16:2..."Very early on the first day of the week, they *came to the tomb when the sun had risen."
mark 16:9..."Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons."
luke 24:1..."But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared."
john 20:1..."Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene *came early to the tomb, while it *was still dark, and *saw the stone already taken away from the tomb."

the unanimous testimony of all four gospel writers is pretty much non debateable...jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week...a sunday...


so in conclusion i have proven from scripture that jesus could not have been crucified on any other day but a friday...and that he rose from the dead on a sunday...scripture simply does not allow any alternative such as a wednesday crucifixion...

Since this discussion has become sidetracked from our discussion and it doesn't appear that I'll get any response about the reliability of the source material (the gospels), let's assume for the moment that they are true. Even granting their truth, they still don't establish what you think they did about the time of Jesus' rising.

Consider what the bible says about the time of Jesus' resurrection -- nothing! Sure, there are 4 stories about what happened after it, but none of them pinpoint the time that Jesus rose. By the time the women arrived, Jesus was already "resurrected"... it didn't happen in their presence. If Jesus had risen on Friday night around midnight, the narratives still could have gone exactly the same way.

"But the stone was rolled away in their presence!" you gasp desperately. So what? A man who could walk through walls wasn't stopped by a stone. And the angel in that same gospel even said that Jesus was no longer there. So why would you claim the time of the visitation by the women as the time of Jesus' resurrection?

I guess if you were still clinging to faith and needed to prove your point (and I assume you are), you might point to the gospel of John in which Jesus appeared to Mary right there at the tomb. So what? He couldn't have left and come back? That's how it would have had to worked for the angel to be telling the truth in Matthew where he claimed "He is not here". So I ask yet again, why do you think this was the time for the resurrection?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Yep, I ignored your two step around the scriptures by trying to justify it with what the Jews did. They are not the source of truth...

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Num 28:16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
Num 28:17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
Num 28:18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:

The fifteenth day is the high day and the bodies had to be taken down before this.



OK, help me out here,

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

The second day here is not numbered from the second sunset. It began at dark.

If a day runs from sunset to sunset and there is a dark period and a light period, when did Jesus Christ eat the Passover with His disciples? On the beginning of the fifteenth? Contrary to Lev 23 and Num 28? And then does that mean Crhist was crucified on the high day? Yet He had to be taken down before the high day?



Which is also a Sabbath, a High Day, in direct contradiction to this...

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.




Then read this carefully...

Luk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
Luk 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

Verse 54 says that they took His body down on the preparation day, NOT ON THE SABBATH, THE HIGH DAY.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

They then rested on the Sabbath which was according to the Commandment. The Fourth Commandment.



So He did not die on the Passover?

Num 28:16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
Num 28:17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

Numbers 28 plainly shows that the Passover is the fourteenth and the First Day of Unleavened Bread is the fifteenth.



The Day after the Sabbath here is a Sunday. The Wave Sheaf is ALWAYS on Sunday, it cannot be any other day. Here is why...

Lev 23:9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Now up to this point, there is nothing to indicate this must be a Sunday but let's read on...

verses 12 through 14 explain about the wave sheaf but do not speak to what day it is, so we'll pick it back up in verse 15...

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

Pentecost always falls on a Sunday as we see in verse 16. The morning after the seventh Sabbath must alway be the morning of the first day of the week, Sunday. If one counts fifty days from Sunday, we come to a Sunday.

By the way, read Lev 23 and you see that the Wave Sheaf is not a Sabbath. It is not a Holy Convocation...

Lev 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev 23:12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
Lev 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Notice it is the morning AFTER the Sabbath, but is not a Sabbath or holy convocation?




Odd, you have never read of the Quartodecimani? Never heard of the Quartodeciman controversy?

The Quartodeciman controversy arose because Christians in the Roman province of Asia (Western Anatolia) celebrated Passover on the 14th of the first month (Aviv), while the churches in and around Rome observed the practice of celebrating Easter on the following Sunday calling it "the day of the resurrection of our Saviour". The difference was turned into an ecclesiastical controversy when synods of bishops held in other provinces condemned the Asian practice.[4]

Background[edit]

Of the disputes about the date when the Christian Pascha should be celebrated, disputes known as Paschal/Easter controversies, the Quartodeciman is the first recorded.

In the mid–second century, the practice in the Roman province of Asia was for the pre-Paschal fast to end and the feast to be held on the 14th day (the full moon) of the Jewish lunar month of Nisan, the date on which the Passover sacrifice had been offered when the Second Temple stood, and "the day when the people put away the leaven".[5] Those who observed this practice were called Quartodecimani, Latin for "fourteenthers", because of holding their celebration on the fourteenth day of Nisan.

The practice had been followed by Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna (c. 69 – c. 155), one of the seven churches of Asia, and a disciple of John the Apostle, and by Melito of Sardis (d. c. 180).[5] Irenaeus says that Polycarp visited Rome when Anicetus was its bishop (c. 153–68), and among the topics discussed was this divergence of custom. Irenaeus noted:


Neither could Anicetus persuade Polycarp not to observe what he had always observed with John the disciple of our Lord, and the other apostles with whom he had associated; neither could Polycarp persuade Anicetus to observe it, as he said that he ought to follow the customs of the presbyters that had preceded him.[6]

Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So if you think that a 14th Passover and three days and three nights is something brand new, you have missed a lot of history.

first of all i did not try to justify anything 'with what the jews did'...i proved my point from ezekiel and matthew and mark and luke...so your derision is against scripture...not me or any jews...

but i must say this is the first time i have seen one of the judaizing types claim they don't care 'what the jews did'

in any case ezekiel and three of the gospels prove that the passover and the feast of unleavened bread were the same feast...they were not two feasts with passover as an extra day before the feast of unleavened bread...

genesis 1 is numbering days...not sunsets...so your reference is irrelevant...

your comments about the 'high day' have already been addressed in my previous responses...

your comment about luke 23:56 actually disproves your point...the day after the crucifixion the women rested on the weekly sabbath which was required by the ten commandments...

your discussion of the waving of the sheaf is pretty pointless since it all just agrees with what i said...the waving of the sheaf always took place on a sunday...and the day before it was always a sabbath...

that sabbath before the waving of the sheaf is the 'high sabbath' mentioned in the gospels...the saturday immediately following jesus' death on friday...

the remainder of your post is pretty ironic...after falsely accusing me of trying to justify something with 'what the jews did'...you are trying to justify your error with something you claim a post new testament church did...

anyway the quartodeciman controversy was about whether christians should celebrate a passover at its old testament mandated time or celebrate the resurrection on sunday when it happened...the actual days of jesus' death and resurrection were not in dispute...and the modern seventy-two hour fringe tradition was not involved either...