Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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but his love is for all mankind, the world in fact. Christ saved the world, that is how great His love was for all men. However, the perishing is in reference to those that believe. It is "should" not perish which is conditional. It does not say that that because one believes, he has not perished.
it is not about his love. It will follow those that reject him, in fact, His love will follow those who go to hell. The question is about faith, those with faith will not perish if they abide.
You would like it to be, but all the rest of scripture our personal salvation is not based on ONLY his love, but our faith.
scripture does not qualify believe, believing. Anyone who believes. Scripture also gives a large number of individual losing faith, exhorting against losing faith, and some directly stated that suffered condemnation because of their loss of faith.
His belief justified him. If he is going to be saved, he will live out that faith. Simple belief does not save. If it did, Satan would be saved. He even believed on Jesus Christ, knew Christ defeated him and he lost his power over death. But he is not going to obey Christ.
Yes, he was justified. Being justified does not save a person. It puts one into a correct relationship with Christ were salvation takes place.
it is not about his love. It will follow those that reject him, in fact, His love will follow those who go to hell. The question is about faith, those with faith will not perish if they abide.
You would like it to be, but all the rest of scripture our personal salvation is not based on ONLY his love, but our faith.
scripture does not qualify believe, believing. Anyone who believes. Scripture also gives a large number of individual losing faith, exhorting against losing faith, and some directly stated that suffered condemnation because of their loss of faith.
His belief justified him. If he is going to be saved, he will live out that faith. Simple belief does not save. If it did, Satan would be saved. He even believed on Jesus Christ, knew Christ defeated him and he lost his power over death. But he is not going to obey Christ.
Yes, he was justified. Being justified does not save a person. It puts one into a correct relationship with Christ were salvation takes place.
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We can, but you will stubbornly refuse to hear HIS VOICE, just like all other works righteousness Pharisees.
Romans 5:8-11 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:8-11 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
If one remains justified, then it means salvation. But simply being justified, as "justified by faith" is NOT salvation. It enters one into Christ, puts one in a correct standing with Christ, so that one can be saved through their faith, working with God working out their salvation with fear and trembling.
Also you cut the mention of chapter 19 also those disciples did not get baptised neither way , wich gives also evidence by example the two baptisms is a part of the faith or do you negate the faith by example ? This is only to re evaluate your teaching of rebellion of faith wich is deadly as you were deceived into thinking that just like many it is deemed necesary to the faith .
Cited from pureunadulteratedgrace blog: The words "fear and trembling" can mean your knees knocking with fear. However, Paul in most cases used it to mean "reverence and awe." I believe Paul was implying reverence and awe here, but it has more to do here with distrust in one's own abilities. Strong's Concordance states that a distrust in your own abilities can also be meant:2) with fear and trembling, used to describe the anxiety of one who distrusts his ability completely to meet all requirements, but religiously does his utmost to fulfil his duty
We can see this distrust of one's own abilities used in 1st Cor. 2:3-5:
[SUP] 3[/SUP]And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
[SUP]4[/SUP]And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
[SUP]5[/SUP]That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Here we can see that Paul used such words to describe distrust in his own abilities. He did not come with "enticing words of man's wisdom" (distrust in his own abilities), but in the power of God.
I find the message here to be similar to Philippians 2:12-13. Paul was telling the Philippians to continue working out their salvation with a distrust in their own abilities.
Paul told them to not to trust their own abilities as verse 13 gives the reason why:
[SUP]13[/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Site link: http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot.com/2011/09/philippians-212-13.html
We can see this distrust of one's own abilities used in 1st Cor. 2:3-5:
[SUP] 3[/SUP]And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
[SUP]4[/SUP]And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
[SUP]5[/SUP]That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Here we can see that Paul used such words to describe distrust in his own abilities. He did not come with "enticing words of man's wisdom" (distrust in his own abilities), but in the power of God.
I find the message here to be similar to Philippians 2:12-13. Paul was telling the Philippians to continue working out their salvation with a distrust in their own abilities.
Paul told them to not to trust their own abilities as verse 13 gives the reason why:
[SUP]13[/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Site link: http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot.com/2011/09/philippians-212-13.html
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Good, and if I may add
Work out YOUR salvation.
The salvation was already theirs, they were not working to receive it, they were working out what they were given.
We should all work this out with fear and trembling, as paul did. The somethign we would do would put out our light, and we would be unable to draw people to Christ with out lives.
Work out YOUR salvation.
The salvation was already theirs, they were not working to receive it, they were working out what they were given.
We should all work this out with fear and trembling, as paul did. The somethign we would do would put out our light, and we would be unable to draw people to Christ with out lives.
Faith is not simply to just believe it is a start to just believe when you believe you will act upon belief and trust and put to work what you have been taught its not about the work its about believing in the Word of our Lord that it be not our work but the works that our Lord does for us , it is written the works my father does because i obey the Father that is in me , it is he that does the work it is also written Jesus replied when you have finished serving simply say i have only done my duty to say we do not take credit for what we do is God's work . That we have taken His rest by trust by obedience done out of Love a true genuine faith doing things out of love and recognizing that it is not by our own works but that we have simply taken His rest in obedience and love . 1 john 3:16 and 1 john 3:2 ) doing this by example that others are led by example out of love and no greater love is that we lay down our lives for the brethren as Christ Our passover was laid down for us...
We must really be fishing here, Not a single one of these texts deals with beleivers in particular. They all reference the Work of Christ reconciling, redeeming the world. It is this Gift that is the beginning of our salvation, which makes our relationship by and through faith even possible.
All things were reconciled by His Blood, Col 1:20,
Christ reconciled the world, II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25, Rom 5:5-10.
It is his death and resurrection that gave life to all men, Rom 5:18, II Cor 15:22.
Christ overcame death, Heb 2:14, II Tim 1:10, the death of Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12.
It is the second part of this Gift that this discussion entails. His offer of being united with Him in a relationship now and for eternity. That relatioship has conditions, obligations for those in that relationship, and to inherit the promise at the end, one must be faithful, not loose faith.
All things were reconciled by His Blood, Col 1:20,
Christ reconciled the world, II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25, Rom 5:5-10.
It is his death and resurrection that gave life to all men, Rom 5:18, II Cor 15:22.
Christ overcame death, Heb 2:14, II Tim 1:10, the death of Gen 3:19, Rom 5:12.
It is the second part of this Gift that this discussion entails. His offer of being united with Him in a relationship now and for eternity. That relatioship has conditions, obligations for those in that relationship, and to inherit the promise at the end, one must be faithful, not loose faith.