Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Cassian]

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NO, I told you the TRUTH, exactly like GOD said it. GRACE is receiving what we have not earned and do not deserve. That Grace and Faith are a free gift, unearned and undeserved. AND James was telling you that those Free gifts sown in us by the Holy Spirit, will produce a harvest of GOOD WORKS, validating that HE really did save us and that the Holy Spirit really does dwell in us.

Ephesians 2:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),

Ephesians 2:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, that no man should glory.

Romans 11:6 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Titus 3:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Galatians 2:16 (ASV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Like I said, I DID TELL YOU THE TRUTH, but you chose to reject the Truth.

The Saving Faith that the Holy Spirit gives to us, not only SAVED US, but will produce in us the desire to receive Jesus Christ as LORD, so that we submit to Him in obedience out of LOVE for HIM. Faith that fails to produce that, is NOT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, but only of the human intellect. It is not head knowledge about HIM that SAVES, it is HEART KNOWLEDGE of genuinely KNOWING HIM as our LORD and MASTER. Therefore a true Christian's obedience is always an act of LOVE for our Master, not the False Doctrine of "I have to earn part of my Salvation."

Where does it ever state that God/Holy Spirit gives saving faith?

All of those texts you used, especially the underlined parts don't just apply to believers. They actually apply to every human being. But Paul is speaking to believers and that the purpose of Christ's work was for us to believe in that work, and by that faith in Christ be justified, made right. It is Christ's work that makes our personal salvation possible.

 

[VCO]

What has no credibility from scripture is that one is saved (cannot ever lose salvation) upon a moment of belief. that all the rest that we do is just fodder, has no consequence whatsoever. It fits perfectly the examples of Stalin and Hitler. They and others like them all fit the description perfectly.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

John 10:26-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one(not even self)is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and My Father are one."

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 6:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them.
Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

1 John 3:10 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[VCO]

Where does it ever state that God/Holy Spirit gives saving faith?

All of those texts you used, especially the underlined parts don't just apply to believers. They actually apply to every human being. But Paul is speaking to believers and that the purpose of Christ's work was for us to believe in that work, and by that faith in Christ be justified, made right. It is Christ's work that makes our personal salvation possible.

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Rom 5:2 shows/proves tha grace alone cannot save. How many faithless people will grace alone save? None, zero, nil, nada, zilch

Romans 5:2 shows that in Jesus Christ we have sccess into the grace wherein we stand by faith and faith alone without any works.

And notice in Romans 5:1 that it says that we are justified by faith.

 

[saved1975]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to wallk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff


It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian.



A thought:

1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

If I had to go out and get a job to WORK in order to provide for those of my own house, else be a faithless infidel, does that secular WORK I am doing mean that I am trying to merit my salvation, ie, keep from being a lost, faithless infidel?

If eternal security were true, does that mean I do not have to work to provide for my house and can still be saved as a fatihless infidel?



So can anyone demonstrate how a man can never do ANY KIND of work his entire life yet still be saved?

You should read, Eph 2: 8-9. Titus 3: 5

 

[Jabberjaw]

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

So then all men are saved, and since the gift of God was to all men, if any man not be saved it is Gods fault.

 

[Vaudeville]

Rom 5:2 shows/proves tha grace alone cannot save. How many faithless people will grace alone save? None, zero, nil, nada, zilch

how childish. you know what the bible says. you're swallowing a camel while straining at a gnat.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Romans 5:2 shows that in Jesus Christ we have sccess into the grace wherein we stand by faith and faith alone without any works.

And notice in Romans 5:1 that it says that we are justified by faith.

If you will look at "faith" as a dispensation, it would make more sense, the patriarchal period (dispensation) it was by "faith", then the mosaic period (dispensation) "works", then dispensation of Christian "faith" meaning through Christ, the Christian dispensation does not mean Christ did "everything" for us and man has no part in it, that would put all culpability on God.

"Faith" is a package that includes obedience to the "Laws of Christ", now Christ did His part, now we must do ours, that is why it is called a "covenant" it is an "agreement between us and God" that if we do our part in the agreement, and since Christ did His part (the part man could not do) if we do ours, it will reconcile us with God.

 

[Jabberjaw]

You should read, Eph 2: 8-9. Titus 3: 5

So since the cross, all men on both sides of it are saved and if anyone is not saved it is Gods fault because he forgot to give them Grace and Faith too?

So the whole thing amounts to God making a mistake in the first two dispensations, he was losing men right and left, so he sent Jesus to die on the cross to fix everything, now all men are saved, nothing they can do about it.

Some how that just doesn't make sense...

 

[Vaudeville]

So since the cross, all men on both sides of it are saved and if anyone is not saved it is Gods fault because he forgot to give them Grace and Faith too?

So the whole thing amounts to God making a mistake in the first two dispensations, he was losing men right and left, so he sent Jesus to die on the cross to fix everything, now all men are saved, nothing they can do about it.

Some how that just doesn't make sense...

Hebrews 11
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hebrews 11 KJV - Now faith is the substance of things - Bible Gateway

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[notuptome]

Where does it ever state that God/Holy Spirit gives saving faith?

All of those texts you used, especially the underlined parts don't just apply to believers. They actually apply to every human being. But Paul is speaking to believers and that the purpose of Christ's work was for us to believe in that work, and by that faith in Christ be justified, made right. It is Christ's work that makes our personal salvation possible.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.

John 14 speaks of the Comforter the Holy Spirit as the One Who guides into the truth. Also it is the Holy Spirit that brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. He is also the One Who at the Fathers will draws men to Christ for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cassian]

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

John 10:26-30 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one(not even self)is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and My Father are one."

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.
1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 6:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them.
Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

1 John 3:10 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Proverbs 22:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Not a single one of these texts says saved finitely. Every one has conditions in them. One even states they are leaving. One needs to fulfill the conditions before one inherits the promise of eternal life with Christ. You need a verb that says one had believed, thus still will be saved in the future, even though they no longer believe.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

If you will look at "faith" as a dispensation, it would make more sense, the patriarchal period (dispensation) it was by "faith", then the mosaic period (dispensation) "works", then dispensation of Christian "faith" meaning through Christ, the Christian dispensation does not mean Christ did "everything" for us and man has no part in it, that would put all culpability on God.

"Faith" is a package that includes obedience to the "Laws of Christ", now Christ did His part, now we must do ours, that is why it is called a "covenant" it is an "agreement between us and God" that if we do our part in the agreement, and since Christ did His part (the part man could not do) if we do ours, it will reconcile us with God.

The main part that a person must do in this Dispensation to be saved is to come to God as a sinner (repentance) and to believe on His Son.

Then after that person is saved, he is indeed to walk in obedience to the law of Christ.

But you have to keep in mind that the believer in this age is eternally secure (Eph. 1:13 & 4:30). So he cannot lose his salvation.

Our works play no part in securing our salvation. Our salvation is secured in Christ.

Our works do affect our rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ though.

 

[Cassian]

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Yes, Every human being was saved by grace by what Christ accomplished on the Cross, vs 5. However, since believers are part of that ALL HUMANITY, they are saved by grace, but also through faith. Our personal salvation is throiugh faith. Faith is active and continuous. It should never stop but it does then we are no longer being saved, will be saved.
Everything is a gift from God. We need to use those Gifts, which is why He gave them to us. We cannot bury them, because that will result in reaping the knashing of teeth.

 

[Cassian]

So since the cross, all men on both sides of it are saved and if anyone is not saved it is Gods fault because he forgot to give them Grace and Faith too?

So the whole thing amounts to God making a mistake in the first two dispensations, he was losing men right and left, so he sent Jesus to die on the cross to fix everything, now all men are saved, nothing they can do about it.

Some how that just doesn't make sense...

If that was the purpose of God creating man, then He would have created Adam immortal and would not have been able to sin. Their theology denies the very purpose of why God created man, possibility lost through Adam, Christ corrected the loss through Adam, now we are right back at the beginning, Believers are doing the same thing Adam was supposed to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Only if you do them only because you LOVE HIM. If you do them to earn part of your salvation, they are ONLY FILTHY RAGS.

amen!

Doing them to save SELF, is doing them because you love SELF. Not because you love God. You doing it for self. these are carnal works not spiritual works.. ie, filthy rags

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

yep.

those born of God WILL do this

Those not born of God will not.

But even these things are powered by God not self

 

[Cassian]

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God.

John 14 speaks of the Comforter the Holy Spirit as the One Who guides into the truth. Also it is the Holy Spirit that brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. He is also the One Who at the Fathers will draws men to Christ for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Faith in Christ comes by reading and hearing. That is man using the gift of faith that all men were given. God is calling all men. The Holy Spirit is working in every man to believe. The Holy Spirit does not arbitrarily grant believing faith to a person reading the Bible. Millions have read the Bible and never believed. That is what we have a rational soul for. We are influenced to believe. By what? A lot of things, but reading or hearing the Gospel is one way.

 

[Vaudeville]

Fthe gift of faith that all men were given.

all men are not given faith.

this is about believers only.

Romans 12
3 For I say to every man that is among you, through the grace given unto me, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[Cassian]

yep.

those born of God WILL do this

Those not born of God will not.

But even these things are powered by God not self

anti-scriptural from beginning to end. The ONLY ones that it can be said they have done this are those that have died and have recieved the crown of life. They have finished the course, race, journey and were diligent, faithful, endured.
Many have fallen by the wayside.