Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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E
yes, But they were ALL called the law. And when the NT speaks the term law, it includes all three.
Moses said they had to obay all aspect of that law (including all three phases) or they would be cursed.
Jesus fulfilled them all. Including the moral. Because we could not fulfill any of them in a way God required.
Moses said they had to obay all aspect of that law (including all three phases) or they would be cursed.
Jesus fulfilled them all. Including the moral. Because we could not fulfill any of them in a way God required.
V17 ends with PLEROO V18 ends with ginomai, different words.
Honestly in V18 fulfill or perfected are probably both bad words to use to translate.
What about "Till heaven and earth pass"
What about "till all be fulfilled"
Has heaven and earth passed? Look out the window...NO?
Has all been fulfilled? Has the Messiah returned? No?
How has anything passed, ACCORDING TO THE MESSIAH?
also He says:
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
Lets break this down
Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."
First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”
He said He came to “fulfill them.”
Lets let scripture interpret scripture –
Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.
Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.
So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.
Acts 3:18, “But those things which Yahweh foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that the Messiah must suffer, He has fulfilled this.”
Mattithyah 1:21-23, “And she will give birth to a Son and you will call His Name YAHSHUA; (Yahweh is Salvation); for Yahweh will save His people from their sins. Now all this was done to fulfill what Yahweh had spoken through the prophet (Isayah 7:14), saying: Behold a virgin will conceive, and bear a Son, and will bring forth the sign IMMANUYAH-which means that Yahweh Of Hosts Is With Us.
Matt 2:15, “And remained there until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what Yahweh had spoken by the prophet (Hosheyah 11:1) saying: from Egypt I have called My Son.”
Matt 2:17, “Then what was spoken by Yeremayh (Jeremiah 31:15) the prophet was fulfilled; a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were no more.”
Matt 2:23, “And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets (Zecharyah 3:8 & 6:12); He will be called a Nazarene.”
Matt 4:14-16, “To fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (9:1-2), saying; the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Yardan, in Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light; they who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them the Light has shined.”
Matt 8:17, “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (53:5), saying: He was bruised for our iniquities, and by His stripes we are healed.”
Matt 12:17-20, “That it would be fulfilled what was spoken through Isayah (42:1-3) the prophet, saying: Behold! My Servant Whom I have chosen! My Elect One in Whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He will not cry, nor lift up His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; until He brings forth judgment in truth.”
Matt 13:14-15, “And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah (6:9-10), which says: you will hear without ceasing, but you will not understand. You will see without ceasing, but you will not perceive . Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, or they will see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed.”
Matt 13:35, “ That it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 78:2) saying: I will open My mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings-which have been kept secret since the foundation of the world.”
Matt 21:4-5, “All this was done to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet (Zecharyah 9:9), saying: rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout for joy, O daughter of Yerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you. He is just and lowly, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
Matt 26:53-56, “Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, Who at once would give Me more than twelve legions of malakim? But then, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that all this must be so? At that same time, Yahshua said to the multitudes; have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you teaching in the sacred precincts, and you did not arrest Me. But all this has been done, so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples abandoned Him, and fled.”
Matt 27:9-10, “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zecharyah (11:12-13) the prophet, saying: so they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver, that considerable price that I was valued by them whom they of the children of Israyl had agreed to pay, and used them for the Potter’s Field, as Yahweh had appointed Me.”
Matt 27:35, “They nailed Him to a stake, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 22:18): they divide My garments among them, and for My tallit they cast lots.”
Mark 14:49, 15:28, Luke 1:20, 4:21, 21:22, 21:32, 24:44, Yach (Jn) 12:38-41), 13:18, 15:25, 17:12, 18:9, 18:32, 19:24, 19:24, 19:36
All these are amazing prophecies that our Messiah fulfilled.
Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them." – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.” He said He came to “fulfill them.”
But has Messiah fulfilled all the Law and Prophets?
Are all the Feast days fulfilled? Are all the endtime prophecies fulfilled? Has Messiah fulfilled the prophecy of His return?
Honestly in V18 fulfill or perfected are probably both bad words to use to translate.
What about "Till heaven and earth pass"
What about "till all be fulfilled"
Has heaven and earth passed? Look out the window...NO?
Has all been fulfilled? Has the Messiah returned? No?
How has anything passed, ACCORDING TO THE MESSIAH?
also He says:
Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
Lets break this down
Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."
First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”
He said He came to “fulfill them.”
Lets let scripture interpret scripture –
Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.
Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.
So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.
Acts 3:18, “But those things which Yahweh foretold by the mouth of all the prophets, that the Messiah must suffer, He has fulfilled this.”
Mattithyah 1:21-23, “And she will give birth to a Son and you will call His Name YAHSHUA; (Yahweh is Salvation); for Yahweh will save His people from their sins. Now all this was done to fulfill what Yahweh had spoken through the prophet (Isayah 7:14), saying: Behold a virgin will conceive, and bear a Son, and will bring forth the sign IMMANUYAH-which means that Yahweh Of Hosts Is With Us.
Matt 2:15, “And remained there until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what Yahweh had spoken by the prophet (Hosheyah 11:1) saying: from Egypt I have called My Son.”
Matt 2:17, “Then what was spoken by Yeremayh (Jeremiah 31:15) the prophet was fulfilled; a voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were no more.”
Matt 2:23, “And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets (Zecharyah 3:8 & 6:12); He will be called a Nazarene.”
Matt 4:14-16, “To fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (9:1-2), saying; the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea, beyond Yardan, in Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who walked in darkness have seen a great Light; they who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them the Light has shined.”
Matt 8:17, “This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isayah (53:5), saying: He was bruised for our iniquities, and by His stripes we are healed.”
Matt 12:17-20, “That it would be fulfilled what was spoken through Isayah (42:1-3) the prophet, saying: Behold! My Servant Whom I have chosen! My Elect One in Whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He will not cry, nor lift up His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed He will not break, and smoking flax He will not quench; until He brings forth judgment in truth.”
Matt 13:14-15, “And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isayah (6:9-10), which says: you will hear without ceasing, but you will not understand. You will see without ceasing, but you will not perceive . Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes, or they will see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed.”
Matt 13:35, “ That it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 78:2) saying: I will open My mouth in a parable. I will utter dark sayings-which have been kept secret since the foundation of the world.”
Matt 21:4-5, “All this was done to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet (Zecharyah 9:9), saying: rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout for joy, O daughter of Yerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you. He is just and lowly, and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.”
Matt 26:53-56, “Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, Who at once would give Me more than twelve legions of malakim? But then, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that all this must be so? At that same time, Yahshua said to the multitudes; have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you teaching in the sacred precincts, and you did not arrest Me. But all this has been done, so that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples abandoned Him, and fled.”
Matt 27:9-10, “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zecharyah (11:12-13) the prophet, saying: so they weighed for My price thirty pieces of silver, that considerable price that I was valued by them whom they of the children of Israyl had agreed to pay, and used them for the Potter’s Field, as Yahweh had appointed Me.”
Matt 27:35, “They nailed Him to a stake, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet (Psalm 22:18): they divide My garments among them, and for My tallit they cast lots.”
Mark 14:49, 15:28, Luke 1:20, 4:21, 21:22, 21:32, 24:44, Yach (Jn) 12:38-41), 13:18, 15:25, 17:12, 18:9, 18:32, 19:24, 19:24, 19:36
All these are amazing prophecies that our Messiah fulfilled.
Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them." – First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.” He said He came to “fulfill them.”
But has Messiah fulfilled all the Law and Prophets?
Are all the Feast days fulfilled? Are all the endtime prophecies fulfilled? Has Messiah fulfilled the prophecy of His return?
For sake of argument let's say you are right,(though I don't agree) then you are saying that you are under the 613 commands in the Mosaic Law since it is a whole inseparable unit and that if you break one you have broken all. No where in Gods Word does it separate them into categories of moral/civil/ceremonial, it is a WHOLE. That also means you need a Levitical Priest and Temple.
So Please answer me clearly, are we as believers under the Mosaic Covenant/Law?
So Please answer me clearly, are we as believers under the Mosaic Covenant/Law?
K
Jesus did not fulfill the moral law to the point we do not have to try to still follow it. He even made additions to it: hatred is murder, sexual thoughts are adultery-not just the action, instead of eye for an eye-turn the other cheek...etc.
The 10 commandments are part of the moral law.
We are no longer under the law because we are not held to the sacrificing of animals, or the curses that go with them. Jesus was our sacrifice, and He took the curse ( punishment ) for us. The NT does talk about all three parts of the law, but when it is referring to we are not under the law it is the sacrificial part that we are not under.
The 10 commandments are part of the moral law.
We are no longer under the law because we are not held to the sacrificing of animals, or the curses that go with them. Jesus was our sacrifice, and He took the curse ( punishment ) for us. The NT does talk about all three parts of the law, but when it is referring to we are not under the law it is the sacrificial part that we are not under.
I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, thinking they just don't know any better. But you are purposely trying to convey the opposite meaning of this verse by supposedly using the greek.
Out from among and from the interior outward have a similar meaning in english. But when you put them in place of, of, in verse 10 it gives two entirely different meanings.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are from the interior outward of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But then we have verse 11 which further expounds the meaning of verse 10, and shows your extreme error.
Out from among and from the interior outward have a similar meaning in english. But when you put them in place of, of, in verse 10 it gives two entirely different meanings.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are from the interior outward of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
But then we have verse 11 which further expounds the meaning of verse 10, and shows your extreme error.
K
This is not listed in Leviticus, but it is a well known established fact through biblical scholars who have studied the word over 1000's of years, and speaking to Jews themselves to determine the areas of their mosaic laws.
And to crossnote: Yes the moral was before the mosaic, but it is evident in the ten commandments what those moral values are.
And to crossnote: Yes the moral was before the mosaic, but it is evident in the ten commandments what those moral values are.
Isayah 30:9-13, "That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of Yahweh; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (the Law) , and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant."
Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."
No, that was addressed to Cadwell.
Please answer the one addressed to you twice...
For sake of argument let's say you are right,(though I don't agree) then you are saying that you are under the 613 commands in the Mosaic Law since it is a whole inseparable unit and that if you break one you have broken all. Nowhere in Gods Word does it separate them into categories of moral/civil/ceremonial, it is a WHOLE. That also means you need a Levitical Priest and Temple.
So Please answer me clearly, are we as believers under the Mosaic Covenant/Law?
Please answer the one addressed to you twice...
For sake of argument let's say you are right,(though I don't agree) then you are saying that you are under the 613 commands in the Mosaic Law since it is a whole inseparable unit and that if you break one you have broken all. Nowhere in Gods Word does it separate them into categories of moral/civil/ceremonial, it is a WHOLE. That also means you need a Levitical Priest and Temple.
So Please answer me clearly, are we as believers under the Mosaic Covenant/Law?
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