Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[kennethcadwell]

Very good testimony. We all have our personal tribulations we must face. It is for our personal growth to make us better, and some hold true and come through them. God works in His own time, not in ours so He does not spare the rod because He wants to correct us and keep us on the right path.

Let me share a bit of my testimony to encourage you. I used to be caught up in the party-hardy lifestyle before I got saved. At a party one night I met woman that seemed to care about me, and we hit it off. We went through a whirlwind romance, and six months later we were getting married, and six months after that she demanded a divorce on Christmas Eve, no less. Telling me that she wanted a divorce because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she wanted in life. What a reason! I hit bottom BIG TIME, and the following week, I attempted suicide three times. After that third attempt, something in me BROKE, (I think it was the pride of running my own life, my own way.); and I found myself on my knees in my bedroom weeping like a baby, crying out for forgiveness, and surrendering complete control of my life to JESUS.

I knew from the beginning that HE was really going to do something in my life, and even TRUSTED that HE would bring the woman into my life that HE WANTED ME TO MARRY, my soul mate. I noticed when I started studying the WORD, via a radio Program called "GRACE TO YOU", my new living human spirit in me, started growing LEAPS AND BOUNDS. Then one night about 10 months later, it happened. A mutual friend introduced me to my soul mate. I knew from the very first night, she was who GOD had for me. Her spirit was ministering to my spirit, and my spirit was ministering to hers. It was like we had known each other our whole lives, but we had just met. We have been married very happily now for 34 years, and have continually grown spiritually together, and more and more in love.

 

[danalee]

Let me share a bit of my testimony to encourage you. I used to be caught up in the party-hardy lifestyle before I got saved. At a party one night I met woman that seemed to care about me, and we hit it off. We went through a whirlwind romance, and six months later we were getting married, and six months after that she demanded a divorce on Christmas Eve, no less. Telling me that she wanted a divorce because I could not earn enough money to buy her what she wanted in life. What a reason! I hit bottom BIG TIME, and the following week, I attempted suicide three times. After that third attempt, something in me BROKE, (I think it was the pride of running my own life, my own way.); and I found myself on my knees in my bedroom weeping like a baby, crying out for forgiveness, and surrendering complete control of my life to JESUS.

I knew from the beginning that HE was really going to do something in my life, and even TRUSTED that HE would bring the woman into my life that HE WANTED ME TO MARRY, my soul mate. I noticed when I started studying the WORD, via a radio Program called "GRACE TO YOU", my new living human spirit in me, started growing LEAPS AND BOUNDS. Then one night about 10 months later, it happened. A mutual friend introduced me to my soul mate. I knew from the very first night, she was who GOD had for me. Her spirit was ministering to my spirit, and my spirit was ministering to hers. It was like we had known each other our whole lives, but we had just met. We have been married very happily now for 34 years, and have continually grown spiritually together, and more and more in love.

Thank you for sharing that. And I can relate. I haven't had a good relationship thus far, they were always a source of pain, and even when they seemed good I was always, always feeling as if something was missing.

I now realize that I was missing out on a relationship with God, and that it was him that I always needed and was searching for. It's gotten to a point that when I try and do anything in life, unless it is good for me it fails, and the lessons are getting more and more clear. I think I had to come to this place where my sight is only on him and my salvation. I don't want to be the one who doesn't have oil for the lamp. He knows that, so I've taken my lumps and I've learned to be grateful for them.

I'm so happy God has given you a great blessing. He has more in store for us, for sure.

 

[VCO]

Thank you for sharing that. And I can relate. I haven't had a good relationship thus far, they were always a source of pain, and even when they seemed good I was always, always feeling as if something was missing.

I now realize that I was missing out on a relationship with God, and that it was him that I always needed and was searching for. It's gotten to a point that when I try and do anything in life, unless it is good for me it fails, and the lessons are getting more and more clear. I think I had to come to this place where my sight is only on him and my salvation. I don't want to be the one who doesn't have oil for the lamp. He knows that, so I've taken my lumps and I've learned to be grateful for them.

I'm so happy God has given you a great blessing. He has more in store for us, for sure.

Oh, you already have the Oil in your lamp, I can tell. Wait on the Lord, and He will bring you a godly husband. The secret to a lasting marriage is this:

I know my wife loves the LORD more than me, but I do come second. AND I do love the LORD more than my wife but she certainly comes second. That is Marriage GOD's way.

 

[VCO]

. . .
Every text you have cited has conditions attached. NONE say faith only, or even only simple faith, and none that says we have salvation finitely.

I do have one last question before, go on to another thread.

What denomination do are you affiliated with?

Many of your replies seem to come straight out of Mormon Theology who are taught they have to continually work to earn the right to be not only Saved, but also to become gods ruling their own universe.

I don't think I replied to your statement above.

I don't believe we are saved finitely; I BELIEVE HE SAVED US INFINITELY, COMPLETELY, AND ETERNALLY, AND THEN AS OUR HIGH PRIEST HE SAT DOWN, SIGNIFYING THAT HIS WORK AS HIGH PRIEST IS COMPLETELY FINISHED FOR ALL TIME. The High Priests in the Jewish Temple NEVER sat down in the Temple, because their work was never done, hence there were no chairs in the earthly temple.

 

[notuptome]

Once again Matthew 25:33-46 is a picture of people in front of the judgment seat.

What does Jesus say, He tells the ones who did not do for others ( good works ), depart from Me and take your place in eternal judgment.

Make certain you know which judgment seat Christ is talking about. There is the Great White throne judgment seat where all the lost souls of the world are judged and cast into the lake of fire. There is also the judgment seat of Christ where believers give account of what they have done since they have been saved. Here the works are passed through the fire and those which were done with the wrong attitude are consumed in the flames. The believer is never passed through the flames only the works they have done.

There are no unbelievers at the judgment seat of Christ and there are no believers standing before the GWT judgment seat.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VCO]

God does the same for all men, God did not predestine anyone, "all" are offered the free gift, but not all will be obedient to receive it.



What is it that he did for some that he didn't do for others?

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I do have one last question before I go on to another thread.

What denomination do are you affiliated with?

Many of your replies seem to come straight out of Mormon Theology who are taught they have to continually work to earn the right to be not only Saved, but also to become gods ruling their own universe.

And yes, in reply to your statement above, God desires all men to be saved, but He loves us enough to give us the freedom to CHOOSE whom we will serve. HE CHOSE US, before the foundation of the world, because being omnipresent in time He CHOSE those who are choosing to receive HIM as LORD and Master.

1 Peter 1:2 (GW)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God the Father knew you long ago and chose you to live holy lives with the Spirit's help so that you are obedient to Jesus Christ and are sprinkled with his blood. May good will and peace fill your lives!

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All those who live on the earth will worship him (Antichrist), everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Cassian]

I do have one last question before, go on to another thread.

What denomination do are you affiliated with?

Many of your replies seem to come straight out of Mormon Theology who are taught they have to continually work to earn the right to be not only Saved, but also to become gods ruling their own universe.

I don't think I replied to your statement above.

I don't believe we are saved finitely; I BELIEVE HE SAVED US INFINITELY, COMPLETELY, AND ETERNALLY, AND THEN AS OUR HIGH PRIEST HE SAT DOWN, SIGNIFYING THAT HIS WORK AS HIGH PRIEST IS COMPLETELY FINISHED FOR ALL TIME. The High Priests in the Jewish Temple NEVER sat down in the Temple, because their work was never done, hence there were no chairs in the earthly temple.

As usual however, your mischaracterizations notwithstanding does not even closely represent what I have been explaining. They are your misunderstandings of both scripture and me.
I am not affiliated with any denomination. I am Orthodox, the Church that Christ established at Pentecost.
If the Mormons sound like Orthodox, then maybe they are closer to the Truth than most Protestants.

 

[Cassian]

Make certain you know which judgment seat Christ is talking about. There is the Great White throne judgment seat where all the lost souls of the world are judged and cast into the lake of fire. There is also the judgment seat of Christ where believers give account of what they have done since they have been saved. Here the works are passed through the fire and those which were done with the wrong attitude are consumed in the flames. The believer is never passed through the flames only the works they have done.

There are no unbelievers at the judgment seat of Christ and there are no believers standing before the GWT judgment seat.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You may hold to two, but scripture has ONLY ONE judgement of all men, Rev 20:13.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I do have one last question before I go on to another thread.

What denomination do are you affiliated with?

Many of your replies seem to come straight out of Mormon Theology who are taught they have to continually work to earn the right to be not only Saved, but also to become gods ruling their own universe.

And yes, in reply to your statement above, God desires all men to be saved, but He loves us enough to give us the freedom to CHOOSE whom we will serve. HE CHOSE US, before the foundation of the world, because being omnipresent in time He CHOSE those who are choosing to receive HIM as LORD and Master.

1 Peter 1:2 (GW)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] God the Father knew you long ago and chose you to live holy lives with the Spirit's help so that you are obedient to Jesus Christ and are sprinkled with his blood. May good will and peace fill your lives!

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All those who live on the earth will worship him (Antichrist), everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

Revelation 20:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

All these scripture and how you have twisted them, no man was predestined, not one... what was predestined was the Church, these verses refer to the church and those in it.

If I have a barbeque, and I say "all can come", the barbeque is predestined, and I know everyone that does come will have a barbeque, and I do know some will not come, the barbeque was "predestined" and not those that were invited.

Your teachings are not biblical, your salvation is not eternally secure until you're dead, Jesus will not obey his Gospel for you.

I belong to the Lords church...

 

[Jabberjaw]

Romans 1:20-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Claiming to be wise, they became fools

Actually your quote is more reflective toward you, as if you knew God, you would "obey" God. Your problem is with obedience.

 

[notuptome]

You may hold to two, but scripture has ONLY ONE judgement of all men, Rev 20:13.

For you perhaps. All those who stand before the Great White Throne are condemned. There are no Christians standing before the GWT they are standing behind it with the host of heaven.

You should consider 2 Cor 5:10 and see the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cassian]

For you perhaps. All those who stand before the Great White Throne are condemned. There are no Christians standing before the GWT they are standing behind it with the host of heaven.

You should consider 2 Cor 5:10 and see the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Once again, man's doctrines have created a lot of new ideas for scripture. II Cor 5:10 is refering to the Great Judgement of Rev 20:13. Where ALL the dead will be raised, ALL the books opened and EVERY man will give an account of what He did with Christ.

 

[VCO]

As usual however, your mischaracterizations notwithstanding does not even closely represent what I have been explaining. They are your misunderstandings of both scripture and me.
I am not affiliated with any denomination. I am Orthodox, the Church that Christ established at Pentecost.
If the Mormons sound like Orthodox, then maybe they are closer to the Truth than most Protestants.

Then you are saying that you don't go to any Church, is that right?

 

[posthuman]

All these scripture and how you have twisted them, no man was predestined, not one... what was predestined was the Church, these verses refer to the church and those in it.

nevermind that the you said only the church is predestined ergo the church is not predestined --

but what do you think of Jeremiah?

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.
(Jeremiah 1:5)

what do you think of Isaiah?

Listen to me, O coastlands,
and give attention, you peoples from afar.
The LORD called me from the womb,
from the body of my mother he named my name.
(Isaiah 49:1)

what do you think of David?

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
(Psalm 139:16)

does the Creator not understand what He created?
did He make us for no purpose, but to discover what purpose we make for ourselves?

 

[Jabberjaw]

nevermind that the you said only the church is predestined ergo the church is not predestined --

but what do you think of Jeremiah?

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet to the nations.
(Jeremiah 1:5)

what do you think of Isaiah?

Listen to me, O coastlands,
and give attention, you peoples from afar.
The LORD called me from the womb,
from the body of my mother he named my name.
(Isaiah 49:1)

what do you think of David?

Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
(Psalm 139:16)

does the Creator not understand what He created?
did He make us for no purpose, but to discover what purpose we make for ourselves?

There is a big difference in "foreknowledge" and "predestination"

Jesus also said this :

John 15:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Is this predestination of the twelve? Yet we see here :

John 6:70 (NKJV)
[SUP]70 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

Was this Jesus making a mistake? was not Judas "chosen?" yet Jesus had "foreknowledge", there is a difference between "predestined" (of which the Church was from the beginning) and "foreknowledge".

 

[Cassian]

Then you are saying that you don't go to any Church, is that right?

You don't think Christ established a Church on this earth? Is the Church at Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, etc just myths? You don't believe Christ's Church still exists?

 

[homwardbound]

For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to fulfill His good purpose.

So who does the work, you or God in and through you as your belief deepens and widens? your dependency grows unto as Christ's dependency shown us all in his walk. He depended on no one else but God his Father right?
You think maybe we are to do the same?

 

[notuptome]

Once again, man's doctrines have created a lot of new ideas for scripture. II Cor 5:10 is refering to the Great Judgement of Rev 20:13. Where ALL the dead will be raised, ALL the books opened and EVERY man will give an account of what He did with Christ.

Here again you miss the mark. Christians are passed by judgment. We have accepted our judgment and Christ has settled our debt before the Father. Judgment is condemnation for all men are sinners and without Christ headed into eternal condemnation. You see the world is judged already. The world is awaiting the sentence of death to be executed. Jesus said this world is judged already. Find me one person at the Great White Throne who is not cast into the lake of fire. Just one.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

Now see? you know when you're backed into a corner, you can only call names.

I am calling what I see just as Christ did to the Pharisees and religious leaders of his day, that is it Brother
Father is calling you to rest in Father and just trust in Father through Son to be able to do the works of Father as Christ his Son has already done and showed us how to walk by Faith in Father alone

I have found nowhere in the word, where God ever said figure it out, have you?
I have found a zillion times to trust, walk in Faith, believe, and through this is where rest is and they in the day of provocation never entered because of unbelief?
Now Belief can't be partial to enter Father's rest, It is all or none
Did he Father do it all for you to be saved or not through Son?

Twister is a fun game, and we all get twisted up in our own selfishness and see the incongruities, that we in flesh just can not attain, perfectly
It is like trying to hold ten apples under water with two hands to do this all at the same time?
Can you do this, put ten apples in water and dunk all with your two hands at the same time?

So maybe now see this the correlation of Ten Laws and the Ten plagues that Egypt experience in walking by their selfish flesh?
So go ahead and walk by any Law and see the curse of your own inability being flesh that you can't ever be perfect in and of self ever
Love you, left foot on blue, love you deeper than you are seeing

The foundation is Christ crucified for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and risen for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we and you and are saved by the resurrected Christ not the dead Christ where most of the world is working from the dead Christ, trying to be right and stay right by their works, which no man could ever do starting with the first Adam, Christ being the second Adam.
The first Adam brought death made alive in flesh, yet dead in Spirit.
The Second Adam, Christ a life giving Spirit, to hold our old flesh alive, yet dead to its lead
Acts 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 

[homwardbound]

God does the same for all men, God did not predestine anyone, "all" are offered the free gift, but not all will be obedient to receive it.



What is it that he did for some that he didn't do for others?

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So then after Christ with the cross, in the resurrected Christ all that is left is to beleive, receive and see, the only work I see is to work hard to see and enter God's rest by Faith
As said we who believe God have entered his rest, our self works are done, finished the same as Christ yelled out "it is finished" John 19:30 he finished the work he was called to finish, and then that death brought in a new covenant, that really was not new, actually back to the original covenant made to Abraham from God

Hebrews 3 and 4, show the rest, new covenant by death Hebrews 9 and new Priesthood Hebrews 7, with new laws