SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

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Dec 12, 2013
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Hebrews 6


6 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and ofinstruction about washings,[a] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, andeternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.



If it is impossible to be restored to repentance after being lost, then salvation is a one shot deal.

there is no Scriptural basis for the 'saved, then not saved, then saved again' mentality.

If salvation can be lost, then it is gone forever. No 3rd chance.

Like John said...they went out from us, because they NEVER WERE OF US! Salvation is an eternal state as it is the Spirit that is born again, does not sin and is eternally sealed in Christ and the faith of Christ by the Holy Spirit of Promise which is the (prepayment) of our eternal inheritance in Christ.
 
H

haz

Guest
The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" is God's example of what works are required for salvation.

He believed on Jesus, John 6:29.
 
L

LT

Guest
The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" is God's example of what works are required for salvation.

He believed on Jesus, John 6:29.
the Bible doe not call belief a 'work'.

By Biblical definition, calling out to Christ, believing, a turn of heart, or having faith are not considered 'works'.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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the Bible doe not call belief a 'work'.

By Biblical definition, calling out to Christ, believing, a turn of heart, or having faith are not considered 'works'.
Can you give a citation for that biblical definition?
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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Yet Christ Himself said that He would divide father from son and mother from daughter. Christ will divide the sheep from the goats. God has divided the light from the darkness.

Sound doctrine does not offend any other parts of scripture but promotes perfect harmony in all the scriptures. Now if you are done tossing about vacuous accusations tell me what works must a man work to be saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Hear the Gospel Rom 10:17
Believe Heb 11:6
Repent Acts 3:19
Confess faith in Christ Rom 10:9-10
Be Baptized Mark 16:16
Be faithful until death Rev 2:10
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Works have nothing to do with salvation. Sanctification is the fruit ( evidence of your salvation) and we can only be sanctified through the means of the cross as the Holy Spirit works in us.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Thanks!
It is because both unforgiveness and unbelief have the same eternal result.

God's forgiveness of sin is salvation (Lk 1:77).
God withholds forgiveness of sin for those who do not forgive.
And God's withholding of forgiveness bars from salvation.

Likewise, salvation is by faith.
And likewise, God withholds salvation for those who do not believe.
So both those who do not forgive, and those who do not believe are not saved.

And since faith is the only basis of all salvation,
any event that bars from salvation would give evidence of counterfeit faith/unbelief.

Your thoughts?

You may find this hard to believe, but I agree with most of what you said, which I emboldened.
At that same time, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that if one refuses to forgive, then He never was a child of God, and therefore never had salvation. I'm guessing this goes against your denomination's doctrine.
I am not inclined to believe such a thing. I believe one can lose their salvation, after they have obtained it.
I also believe one does not have to repent of their dead or evil works in order for them to receive salvation by faith in Jesus.
I'm not trying to be mean here, but you said, 'And since faith is the only basis of all salvation', then that leaves unforgiveness or holding a grudge against someone, out of the equation, doesn't it?
Aren't we forgiven of every sin when we believe and confess Jesus as lord?
I am convinced that we don't need to repent before we are saved, but after.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;


Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I believe, the main purpose of forgiving others, or repenting of all our sins, is that God might forgive us of our sins that we committed after salvation, that the curse of the law of those sins we committed, might be removed from us through the blood of Jesus, thereby restoring us to fellowship with God, so we might, by faith, get healed, delivered, set free from whatever, and/or get our prayers answered, and that we might receive and walk in the blessings of Abraham and in the fullness of the blood covenant that Jesus has made available to us through the work on the cross.
I believe there is a sin that leads not only to physical death, but eternal damnation as well. To be perfectly honest, I don't know what that is, but if it were anything, I would think unforgiveness would be it.
As for faith, if I were to put it in its simplest form, I would say that it is speaking and acting on what you believe. Speaking alone is also acting on that belief, as quoted above.
For example, let's say a person has an illness, and that person prays for God to heal them, then goes and takes some medication or goes to the doctor's office to possibly alleviate the symptoms.
What was the person's faith in? God and His word, or in the doctor and the medication?
A person will speak and act on what they really believe in their heart.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.


Forgiveness or the lack thereof, I believe, is an act of the person's will.
Your thoughts ma'am?
 
H

haz

Guest
the Bible doe not call belief a 'work'.

By Biblical definition, calling out to Christ, believing, a turn of heart, or having faith are not considered 'works'.
Hi LT.

James 2 speaks of works that shows our faith, and believing on Jesus are these works that shows our faith.
The works of believing on Jesus is what legalists stumble with.

John 6:28,29. KJV
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:29. AMP
Jesus replied, This is the work (service) that God asks of you: that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger].
 
Jan 27, 2013
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You may find this hard to believe, but I agree with most of what you said, which I emboldened.
At that same time, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that if one refuses to forgive, then He never was a child of God, and therefore never had salvation. I'm guessing this goes against your denomination's doctrine.
I am not inclined to believe such a thing. I believe one can lose their salvation, after they have obtained it.
I also believe one does not have to repent of their dead or evil works in order for them to receive salvation by faith in Jesus.
I'm not trying to be mean here, but you said, 'And since faith is the only basis of all salvation', then that leaves unforgiveness or holding a grudge against someone, out of the equation, doesn't it?
Aren't we forgiven of every sin when we believe and confess Jesus as lord?
I am convinced that we don't need to repent before we are saved, but after.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;


Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


I believe, the main purpose of forgiving others, or repenting of all our sins, is that God might forgive us of our sins that we committed after salvation, that the curse of the law of those sins we committed, might be removed from us through the blood of Jesus, thereby restoring us to fellowship with God, so we might, by faith, get healed, delivered, set free from whatever, and/or get our prayers answered, and that we might receive and walk in the blessings of Abraham and in the fullness of the blood covenant that Jesus has made available to us through the work on the cross.
I believe there is a sin that leads not only to physical death, but eternal damnation as well. To be perfectly honest, I don't know what that is, but if it were anything, I would think unforgiveness would be it.
As for faith, if I were to put it in its simplest form, I would say that it is speaking and acting on what you believe. Speaking alone is also acting on that belief, as quoted above.
For example, let's say a person has an illness, and that person prays for God to heal them, then goes and takes some medication or goes to the doctor's office to possibly alleviate the symptoms.
What was the person's faith in? God and His word, or in the doctor and the medication?
A person will speak and act on what they really believe in their heart.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.


Forgiveness or the lack thereof, I believe, is an act of the person's will.
Your thoughts ma'am?
I agree to most of the logical way, you have wrote this post. however,, if the holy spirit teaches different people with different IQs. then is it possible for me to disagree with the whole of the cc members and still be saved. ie I have to understand what you have wrote to comment on your post.
is it possible to what you think it means, could be different to what I think it means.(because there are many different churches, sects etc )
so is it possible that god wrote the bible in a manner that all could come to some understanding, to some quotes, books, of the bible. just by opening it and reading it. for example, if you drive a car, road signs, traffic, and different road conditions, (ie motorways, side roads etc ) would determine, how fast you get to the end destination. (or to meaning to different parts, books of the bible)
if god did love the world,( is it. mans love, I seek) . is love a feeling, or an instruction , or a dollar bill, you guess is as good as mine.

it did not say, believe in god, it says first believe in jesus. his son, then the rest will be added. to see, how god loves you.( a gift from jesus to all)
.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Our works are simply to believe on Jesus, John 6:29.
These are the works that shows our faith, James 2.

The legalists pushing works of the law are in unbelief and should repent of their dead works.
But you do not believe on Jesus. Else you would have made him your Master. You say LORD but you don't know the meaning of the word. The works that show your faith is making Jesus your Master. Believe it ,confess it and obey him. Again I say the devil believe and tremble but what do you do? I obey the Master, Abraham did ,Lot did, Rehab did, the three Hebrew boys did. Do you?

[h=2]Definition of LORD[/h]1

: one having power and authority over others:
a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due
b : one of whom a fee or estate is held in feudal tenure
c : an owner of land or other real property
d obsolete : the male head of a household
e : husband
f : one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area <a drug lord>


2
capitalized
a : god 1
b : jesus
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Hi LT.

James 2 speaks of works that shows our faith, and believing on Jesus are these works that shows our faith.
The works of believing on Jesus is what legalists stumble with.

John 6:28,29. KJV
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:29. AMP
Jesus replied, This is the work (service) that God asks of you: that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger].
You have the right words but yet you fail to do what it says ,that is called lip service not faith. Salvation is a package deal believe in the Lord and Master and you shall be saved.
[h=2]Definition of LORD[/h]1
: one having power and authority over others:
a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due
b : one of whom a fee or estate is held in feudal tenure
c : an owner of land or other real property
d obsolete : the male head of a household
e : husband
f : one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area <a drug lord>

2
capitalized
a : god 1
b : jesus

[h=2]Full Definition of BELIEVE[/h]intransitive verb
1
a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>

2
: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>

3
: to hold an opinion : think <I believe so>



If you believe in him you will make him Lord of your life. Obeying every word he commanded and you will be saved.
If not he is not your Master and you don't have that assurance.
 
H

haz

Guest
But you do not believe on Jesus. Else you would have made him your Master. You say LORD but you don't know the meaning of the word. The works that show your faith is making Jesus your Master. Believe it ,confess it and obey him.
Hi newbirth,

Perhaps you can clarify further what you mean.
I suspect you are hoping to lead me to works of the law for righteousness as proof one is saved and has made the Lord his master.
Is this correct?
 
L

LT

Guest
I wish that a real 'cheap grace' / 'licence to sin' heretic could come into this forum, so that you guys could see just how moderate and Biblical the 'faith alone' doctrine truly is when compared to actual heresy.

The people who preach lasciviousness fervently disagree with Reformed theology. I pray that more of you would understand what doctrine is actually being presented, instead of fighting an unrepresented heresy, and trying to push your brothers into the same group as those wolves.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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Hear the Gospel Rom 10:17
Believe Heb 11:6
Repent Acts 3:19
Confess faith in Christ Rom 10:9-10
Be Baptized Mark 16:16
Be faithful until death Rev 2:10
You really should listen to yourself. Nothing you have cited supports the contention that works are necessary or required to produce salvation. You are simply espousing a Lordship salvation which is a doctrine of legalism.

As a believer I know that there is joy in serving Jesus. I know that oft times I must endure hardship but that Jesus always comforts and strengthens me during those times. I also know that some of the most majestic service to the Lord is from those who serve and no one ever knows about it except the Lord. Many we would see as not doing anything but that is not how the Lord sees it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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1 Peter 1:17 If you address as Father the One whoimpartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

2 Timothy 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

2 Thessalonians 3:6-13
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, [SUP]8 [/SUP]nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; [SUP]9 [/SUP]not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.[SUP]13 [/SUP]But as for you, brethren,do not grow weary of doing good.

We are saved without work, but I would be careful how I interpreted this gift. You are saved without work, but we do work.


1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.


And I know:
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
but this does not mean not to work, but to work from faith - not giving yourself credit for your salvation, but working because you are thankful for the gift that has been extended to you. How ungrateful to receive the gift of God and then do nothing to profit the kingdom.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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I wish that a real 'cheap grace' / 'licence to sin' heretic could come into this forum, so that you guys could see just how moderate and Biblical the 'faith alone' doctrine truly is when compared to actual heresy.

The people who preach lasciviousness fervently disagree with Reformed theology. I pray that more of you would understand what doctrine is actually being presented, instead of fighting an unrepresented heresy, and trying to push your brothers into the same group as those wolves.
may be, I miss, your understand brother, cheap grace/licence to sin.
may I ask you to expand more, on your post.

as, the grace, I talk about is for everyone, the world is still spinning, etc. (not just for the believers, but also for the unbelievers.)
 
Jan 19, 2013
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My contra-Biblical ideas ?? You mean according to you.
This may shock to you but you carry absolutely no weight with me regarding Bible scriptures.
I understand that, but it does not alter the fact that you cannot refute the demonstration of your
contra-Biblical meaning of "justification" which is your own notion, and not
its NT Greek meaning, as shown in posts #1332 and #1333, here.

Nor does it alter the fact that you cannot refute the demonstration of your
contra-Biblical usage
of "works" in regard to salvation, which is your own notion, and not the
NT usage, where it means
"works of the law."

And it does not alter the fact, that these two errors are the foundation of your truncated gospel
which Paul twice condemns (Gal 1:6-9), and which cannot save.

And you conveniently failed to answer the questions:

You are studying the Bible here?

So what have you learned from the Bible on this thread?
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" is God's example of what works are required for salvation.

He believed on Jesus, John 6:29.
Except that "works" in this regard in the NT mean "works of the law."

Faith is a work of the Holy Spirit.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Except that "works" in this regard in the NT mean "works of the law."

Faith is a work of the Holy Spirit.
John 6.29: (Words of the Lord Jesus: ) "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom He hath sent."
 
Jan 19, 2013
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LT said:
the Bible doe not call belief a 'work'.

By Biblical definition,
calling out to Christ, believing, a turn of heart, or having faith are not considered 'works'.
Can you give a citation for that biblical definition?
It comes from Paul's exclusive use of "works" to mean "works of the law" when it comes to salvation.