There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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T
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Greetings again faroukfarouk, saved1975 and Bowman,
I have introduced the idea with saved1975 that the OT word “Elohim” does not always convey God Himself, but is used for those who represent God the Father and act on His behalf. Please note that we have a prophecy of Jesus, the Son of God sitting upon the future throne of David during the 1000 years. I notice that you did not quote the next verse, and please note that God the Father anointed Jesus. God the Father is Jesus’ God, showing that Jesus is not God Himself.
Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV): 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
I have already considered John 1:1-3. Concerning Colossians 1:16, to me it has been an obscure verse that I have not properly considered. One of our expositors is going to consider the Book of Colossians over 4 sessions commencing with chapter 1 next week at our Bible Class. My task will be to understand this verse and chapter better, so I take note of your suggestion, but will defer at this time.
Hebrews 1:2 (KJV): Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
My understanding of the word “by” is “dia” = through or on account of whom. RV, RSV have "through". It represents “through” in the sense: The means by which something is accomplished. He is the central, pivotal point of God's plan. Everything else revolves around him. The concept of “heir of all things” speaks of a future role, that is, he is to be the ruler upon the throne of David 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Again this is a quotation of Psalm 8 and shows the relationship between Yahweh our Lor who is God the Father, the Creator, and the Son of Man and the Son of God, Jesus who is to inherit “all things”.
Yes Psalm 8:1-3 says it was the Lord who created, but looking closer Psalm 8:1 calls this Lord “Yahweh our Lord” and Jesus when he quotes and alludes to Psalm 8 he addresses this same Lord by calling Him:
Matthew 11:25 (KJV): At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator, He is Lord of Heaven and Earth.
You claim there is no direct mention of Angels in Genesis 1-3, but my understanding of these chapters is that the Angels were active. I suggest that the following is speaking of the Angels:
Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV): 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:22-23 (KJV): 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
To clarify the use of “Elohim” in the OT I decided to post the following. It may also lay a basis for a better understanding of John 10:30 which is a favourite verse with Trinitarians. The aim of this is to clarify why the judges were called God or gods. It is interesting to note that the translators had difficulty with the relevant verses where the Judges acted in the role of God (Hebrew Elohim):
Exodus 21:6 (KJV): 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exodus 21:6 (ASV): then his master shall bring him unto God, and shall bring him to the door, or unto the door-post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exodus 22:8-9 (KJV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods. 9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.
Exodus 22:8-9 (ASV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall come near unto God, to see whether he have not put his hand unto his neighbor’s goods. 9 For every matter of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, whereof one saith, This is it, the cause of both parties shall come before God; he whom God shall condemn shall pay double unto his neighbor.
The role and responsibility of the judges is indicated in the following:
Deuteronomy 1:17 (KJV): Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God’s: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
2 Chronicles 19:6 (KJV): And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.
So the judges were called God or gods because they were united in administering the work or judgements of God. In the context of John 10:30 Jesus was claiming a similar though superior role as The Son of God, by calling and claiming God as His Father. He was united with His Father in character and works.
I did not answer this previously, but a start would be to understand the difference between Jesus being seated at the right hand of God and Jesus’ invitation to the believers to share his own future throne.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Revelation 3:21 (KJV): To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Concerning your latest Posts, Bowman, # 2052, 2053 I will consider these, but have run out of time today.
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings again faroukfarouk, saved1975 and Bowman,
I have introduced the idea with saved1975 that the OT word “Elohim” does not always convey God Himself, but is used for those who represent God the Father and act on His behalf. Please note that we have a prophecy of Jesus, the Son of God sitting upon the future throne of David during the 1000 years. I notice that you did not quote the next verse, and please note that God the Father anointed Jesus. God the Father is Jesus’ God, showing that Jesus is not God Himself.
Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV): 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
I have already considered John 1:1-3. Concerning Colossians 1:16, to me it has been an obscure verse that I have not properly considered. One of our expositors is going to consider the Book of Colossians over 4 sessions commencing with chapter 1 next week at our Bible Class. My task will be to understand this verse and chapter better, so I take note of your suggestion, but will defer at this time.
Hebrews 1:2 (KJV): Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
My understanding of the word “by” is “dia” = through or on account of whom. RV, RSV have "through". It represents “through” in the sense: The means by which something is accomplished. He is the central, pivotal point of God's plan. Everything else revolves around him. The concept of “heir of all things” speaks of a future role, that is, he is to be the ruler upon the throne of David 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Again this is a quotation of Psalm 8 and shows the relationship between Yahweh our Lor who is God the Father, the Creator, and the Son of Man and the Son of God, Jesus who is to inherit “all things”.
Yes Psalm 8:1-3 says it was the Lord who created, but looking closer Psalm 8:1 calls this Lord “Yahweh our Lord” and Jesus when he quotes and alludes to Psalm 8 he addresses this same Lord by calling Him:
Matthew 11:25 (KJV): At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Yahweh, God the Father is the Creator, He is Lord of Heaven and Earth.
You claim there is no direct mention of Angels in Genesis 1-3, but my understanding of these chapters is that the Angels were active. I suggest that the following is speaking of the Angels:
Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV): 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Genesis 3:22-23 (KJV): 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
To clarify the use of “Elohim” in the OT I decided to post the following. It may also lay a basis for a better understanding of John 10:30 which is a favourite verse with Trinitarians. The aim of this is to clarify why the judges were called God or gods. It is interesting to note that the translators had difficulty with the relevant verses where the Judges acted in the role of God (Hebrew Elohim):
Exodus 21:6 (KJV): 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exodus 21:6 (ASV): then his master shall bring him unto God, and shall bring him to the door, or unto the door-post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exodus 22:8-9 (KJV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods. 9 For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.
Exodus 22:8-9 (ASV): 8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall come near unto God, to see whether he have not put his hand unto his neighbor’s goods. 9 For every matter of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, whereof one saith, This is it, the cause of both parties shall come before God; he whom God shall condemn shall pay double unto his neighbor.
The role and responsibility of the judges is indicated in the following:
Deuteronomy 1:17 (KJV): Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God’s: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
2 Chronicles 19:6 (KJV): And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.
So the judges were called God or gods because they were united in administering the work or judgements of God. In the context of John 10:30 Jesus was claiming a similar though superior role as The Son of God, by calling and claiming God as His Father. He was united with His Father in character and works.
I did not answer this previously, but a start would be to understand the difference between Jesus being seated at the right hand of God and Jesus’ invitation to the believers to share his own future throne.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV): The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Revelation 3:21 (KJV): To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Concerning your latest Posts, Bowman, # 2052, 2053 I will consider these, but have run out of time today.
Kind regards
Trevor
T
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Greetings Daley,
I appreciate your statement. Yes there is only one God, the Father. Could you please spend some time researching Isaiah 9:6 "the Mighty God". What I suggest is the possible range of both Hebrew words that are represented by our English translation "Mighty God".
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings Daley,
I appreciate your statement. Yes there is only one God, the Father. Could you please spend some time researching Isaiah 9:6 "the Mighty God". What I suggest is the possible range of both Hebrew words that are represented by our English translation "Mighty God".
Kind regards
Trevor
T
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Greetings ThomistColin,
I appreciate your comment but I cannot find a Scripture that says "God is Trinity" nor supports such a view. Such a concept seems to be developed by various Councils, and depicted in the Creeds, and becoming almost incomprehensible in the Athanasian Creed. I had in mind the following, and I believe that the Apostles taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV): But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings ThomistColin,
I appreciate your comment but I cannot find a Scripture that says "God is Trinity" nor supports such a view. Such a concept seems to be developed by various Councils, and depicted in the Creeds, and becoming almost incomprehensible in the Athanasian Creed. I had in mind the following, and I believe that the Apostles taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God.
1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV): But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Kind regards
Trevor
So that makes Christ one with Father then thanks, yet shown as two, Flesh Christ the only flesh that ever pleased God the Father period, and the only flesh that ever will period?
So when are we going to rest in Christ's finished work for us to come alive in Spirit and truth? And thus be led as Christ was led in reception of the Holy Spirit of truth, by the resurrected Christ where Father can only be worshiped today
in Spirit and truth, John 4:23-24 reveals this. No physical carnal works of self selfishness involved to using Father through Christ as one's means of physical gain. As in look at me, look at my works, truly that attitude what gains as rewards with this motive, will have all the rewards they will ever get.
So go ahead and live it up, for tomorrow you may die or not?
praying we see this though and become as one with Father and Son:
[h=3]John 14:15-18[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]Jesus Promises Another Helper[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— [SUP]17 [/SUP]the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
John 17:11
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
So by Faith in the finished work of Christ be one in Spirit and truth, by the resurrected Christ, given you in Spirit and truth from Father the day you first believed. So now grow in the Faith that is given you
Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
So when are we going to rest in Christ's finished work for us to come alive in Spirit and truth? And thus be led as Christ was led in reception of the Holy Spirit of truth, by the resurrected Christ where Father can only be worshiped today
in Spirit and truth, John 4:23-24 reveals this. No physical carnal works of self selfishness involved to using Father through Christ as one's means of physical gain. As in look at me, look at my works, truly that attitude what gains as rewards with this motive, will have all the rewards they will ever get.
So go ahead and live it up, for tomorrow you may die or not?
praying we see this though and become as one with Father and Son:
[h=3]John 14:15-18[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[h=3]Jesus Promises Another Helper[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— [SUP]17 [/SUP]the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
John 17:11
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
So by Faith in the finished work of Christ be one in Spirit and truth, by the resurrected Christ, given you in Spirit and truth from Father the day you first believed. So now grow in the Faith that is given you
Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Post 1036:
John 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
So see Spiritually we are one in the Spirit, yet in the physical we are not? Christ caqme in the flesh to redeem us through his Flesh to make us one in Spirit and truth.
So when look at and in flesh, there is not one yet many, and in Spirit there is only one
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
In the flesh we are not one, yet in the Spirit we are one, hoipe this answers as to which view one is stating from, the flesh (carnal sight) or the Spirit of God ( Spiritual sight)
Post 2038
Re: There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
Post 1036:
John 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
So see Spiritually we are one in the Spirit, yet in the physical we are not? Christ caqme in the flesh to redeem us through his Flesh to make us one in Spirit and truth.
So when look at and in flesh, there is not one yet many, and in Spirit there is only one
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
In the flesh we are not one, yet in the Spirit we are one, hoipe this answers as to which view one is stating from, the flesh (carnal sight) or the Spirit of God ( Spiritual sight)
Post 2038
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
All related verses to this oneness even though we see two, and the third is the guide to lead us, the Holy Spirit the same one that led Christ
Joh_1:1-2, Joh_5:17, Joh_5:23, Joh_8:58, Joh_14:9, Joh_14:23, Joh_16:15, Joh_17:10, Joh_17:21; Mat_11:27, Mat_28:19; 1Ti_3:16; Tit_2:13; 1Jo_5:7, 1Jo_5:20
John 1:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
John 5:17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 8:58
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 14:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 17:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in themJohn 17:21
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Matthew 11:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 28:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 3:16
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Titus 2:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1 John 5:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
All related verses to this oneness even though we see two, and the third is the guide to lead us, the Holy Spirit the same one that led Christ
Joh_1:1-2, Joh_5:17, Joh_5:23, Joh_8:58, Joh_14:9, Joh_14:23, Joh_16:15, Joh_17:10, Joh_17:21; Mat_11:27, Mat_28:19; 1Ti_3:16; Tit_2:13; 1Jo_5:7, 1Jo_5:20
John 1:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
John 5:17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
John 5:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 8:58
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 14:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 16:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 17:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in themJohn 17:21
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Matthew 11:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 28:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 3:16
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Titus 2:13
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1 John 5:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Can Father do anything Father wants? Did not John say to those religious leaders that put themselves as better than others that Father can turn these rocks into stone and be son's
So Can can God be three, four, five in one, if God so choose and i see God; does as to Christ's prayer, does anyone else? as to make us as well one with Father Son and holy Spirit of truth
John 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
Can Father do anything Father wants? Did not John say to those religious leaders that put themselves as better than others that Father can turn these rocks into stone and be son's
So Can can God be three, four, five in one, if God so choose and i see God; does as to Christ's prayer, does anyone else? as to make us as well one with Father Son and holy Spirit of truth
John 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
Being careful to stay humbled and not play God or as if I know all
there is a flesh carnal nature view where man is still to this day playing God and using God's truth for self-gain, God forbid
Empty thyself and give thyself to God in reference to God through Son Christ Jesus, and there is a view in and from the carnal nature we are all born in from the womb of Mom. then there is Father's view
Which view is the best view? Or the correct view and are we not suppose to renew our minds to Father's view not man's?
Anyway when first born in this flesh body, we are born Son's of Adam and desire to be God
Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,’ Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?
there is a flesh carnal nature view where man is still to this day playing God and using God's truth for self-gain, God forbid
Empty thyself and give thyself to God in reference to God through Son Christ Jesus, and there is a view in and from the carnal nature we are all born in from the womb of Mom. then there is Father's view
Which view is the best view? Or the correct view and are we not suppose to renew our minds to Father's view not man's?
Anyway when first born in this flesh body, we are born Son's of Adam and desire to be God
Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,’ Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
Micah 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?
Christ never actually claimed to be God, yet was and is good, yet claimed only Father to be good in Matt.19
So if anyone of us are to call Jesus "good", then we see Jesus is God as well as Father is and yet one, A straight perplexity to unravel.
In the flesh Christ was seen, and yet now no more and is back as one in Spirit and truth with Father at Father's right hand making intercession for us all
Ask today to receive truth from Father if you are willing to give up self wants and desires. Father knows if one does or not, then dishes out accordingly
Father have Mercy on mme and teach me truth over error?
So if anyone of us are to call Jesus "good", then we see Jesus is God as well as Father is and yet one, A straight perplexity to unravel.
In the flesh Christ was seen, and yet now no more and is back as one in Spirit and truth with Father at Father's right hand making intercession for us all
Ask today to receive truth from Father if you are willing to give up self wants and desires. Father knows if one does or not, then dishes out accordingly
Father have Mercy on mme and teach me truth over error?
Exodus 3:6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”
this was not known before Moses, Moses wrote the word as God told him and so the name God gave Moses is;
Exodus 6:7 I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
Mark 12:26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
Luke 22:70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
Luke 16:15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
this was not known before Moses, Moses wrote the word as God told him and so the name God gave Moses is;
Exodus 6:7 I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
Mark 12:26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?
Luke 22:70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?” So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
Luke 16:15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
D
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
I have done research, and the term "mighty God" is another name for the Almighty God. Just see the next chapter. (Isa 10:21) Also, since there is only one true God (John 17:3), all other gods are false. Jesus as the mighty God must either be one God with the Father, or else he is another god outside the Father, which would make him a false god. You choose. I don't know of any case where the term "mighty God" is used of anyone else, but even if it were, that would make them a false god, or else we'd have the ridiculous situation of two true Gods!
I have done research, and the term "mighty God" is another name for the Almighty God. Just see the next chapter. (Isa 10:21) Also, since there is only one true God (John 17:3), all other gods are false. Jesus as the mighty God must either be one God with the Father, or else he is another god outside the Father, which would make him a false god. You choose. I don't know of any case where the term "mighty God" is used of anyone else, but even if it were, that would make them a false god, or else we'd have the ridiculous situation of two true Gods!
D
Jesus did claim to be God. If I claim to be my Father's son, and my father is human by nature, then I'm claiming to be human too; similarly, by claiming to be the Son of God, Jesus claimed to have the same nature as his Father, namely, "Godhood: the state of being omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, etc." This is how the Jews understood his claim to be the Son of God. They did not think he was claiming to be a son by adoption like the rest of us, but they understood his claim to be a claim of equality with God. (John 5:18) Jesus also claimed to be so much like God, that if you see him you have seen the Father. (John 14:8-9) Because there is no one like God (Isa 46:9), to claim to be like God is to claim to be God himself.
T
Re: There is One God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God
Greetings again Bowman,
You have stated this or similar a number of times. How do you understand the following:
Matthew 1:20 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:2-3 (KJV): And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Luke 2:9 (KJV): And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Acts 12:7 (KJV): And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.
Are these angels also Yahweh, and if so, what person of the three possible persons of the Trinity? Of the three Jesus does not seem a possibility as he was otherwise occupied.
I prefer to consider this to represent that Abraham saw the day of Jesus by faith:
Genesis 22:13-14 (KJV): 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Yes Malek Yahweh is called Yahweh, because he represents Yahweh, and when he is in a position to adjudicate between Satan and Joshua he calls upon Yahweh in heaven to rebuke Satan. In other words he leaves this rebuke in the hands of God the Father in heaven. I believe that this is what Jude is quoting and alluding to, as the faithful in his day were suffering opposition, in a similar way that Joshua was suffering as he tried to rebuild the Temple. What other “story” is Jude quoting or alluding to?
Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV): 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus is merged in with the glory of Yahweh because all that Jesus is, is from Yahweh God the Father. God gave Jesus the Name Yahweh. But when we bow to Jesus the glory goes to God the Father.
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings again Bowman,
You have stated this or similar a number of times. How do you understand the following:
Matthew 1:20 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:2-3 (KJV): And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Luke 2:9 (KJV): And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Acts 12:7 (KJV): And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.
Are these angels also Yahweh, and if so, what person of the three possible persons of the Trinity? Of the three Jesus does not seem a possibility as he was otherwise occupied.
I prefer to consider this to represent that Abraham saw the day of Jesus by faith:
Genesis 22:13-14 (KJV): 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Yes Malek Yahweh is called Yahweh, because he represents Yahweh, and when he is in a position to adjudicate between Satan and Joshua he calls upon Yahweh in heaven to rebuke Satan. In other words he leaves this rebuke in the hands of God the Father in heaven. I believe that this is what Jude is quoting and alluding to, as the faithful in his day were suffering opposition, in a similar way that Joshua was suffering as he tried to rebuild the Temple. What other “story” is Jude quoting or alluding to?
Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV): 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus is merged in with the glory of Yahweh because all that Jesus is, is from Yahweh God the Father. God gave Jesus the Name Yahweh. But when we bow to Jesus the glory goes to God the Father.
Kind regards
Trevor