Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

Zola Levitt explained what a Jew means my the term "I believe"

If Jew #1 and Jew #2 walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter, and Jew#2 asked Jew#1,

"Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on?"

AND Jew #1 replied, "Yes, I believe it is thick enough to walk on." And then he only reached out with one foot and started testing the ice.

Jew #2 would yell, "LIAR! If you really believed it you would have boldly walked out there and put your whole weight on it."

In other words for a Jewish Christian to genuinely Believe in JESUS as LORD (which means Master), will automatically produce a bold submission and obedience to HIM validated that Faith, NOT the doubting faith of Jew #1.

I like this, I have learned here in this world we are walking on thin ice, and when I saw to beleive and exercise this believe I started dancing on the thin ice, it does not matter if it breaks, cracks or anything, I am learning daily to just dance in the Spirit, entering his courts (today entered) with thanksgiving and praise
It is love beyond measure to mankind

 

[homwardbound]

My God has given me a new heart and his spirit. I can not help but do what he wants me to, I choose to follow his spirit so I can control the urges of the flesh. My life is hid in him and no one can harm me as long as I am in him and he in me. Everywhere he went he was doing good. Should I not do as he did? It is not by my strength I do it but his spirit in me gives me the power to perform it. My only motive is to be like Christ and that means obedience even unto death because I am already dead and my life now belongs to him. This is the faith I have in God If I continue in him he will raise me in the last day.

So if you don't continue with him, will he not continue with you? Is Father faithful? Is Christ Faithful to Father? Can anyone snatch you out of Father's hand?
If you walk away, you were never his to begin with, praying you see this truth and the lie "IF" "I" walk away brings forth Doubt and doubt of any sort is not of God

 

[homwardbound]

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


If I show you good works from Christ will you stone me too?

You bring doubt to the table, and I love you and know God does too, one can say they have Faith and we all will see for all shall stand at the judgment seat and those that are Christ's will be made to stand and see they are his and no one not even self can snatch them out of his hand
For nothing can separate anyone from the love of God
Romans 8
To think one can walk away that does believe you are wrong, For God id faithful, and I beleive God, which I trust God, period
Love you newbirth, please praying you see the error in one that believes they can walk away
When Father came to live in those that beleive, and they appear to walk away and go to places they should not go, where do you think Father goes?
Father lives in the ones that do beleive, in your new heart he gave you in the power of the Holy Spirit, the same one that live in and through Jesus, to do what? teach us truth from error
So here is one that truly does believe, wallowing in the pig sty, you think Father is not there to teach us what is beneficial and what is not
to think after one believes, and goes say to the strip joint God does not go there to whew you, to teach you, and then one day you agree and do not go anymore, the same with drinking, doing drugs, and so on and so forth
God does not leave us unchanged unto truth that sets us free period, and if I am not chastised, chased, being taught and growing in Father's grace through Son then I am not a Son through Christ am I?

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

 

[homwardbound]

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?


If I show you good works from Christ will you stone me too?

Why would I stone you either way, whether you do good works or not, Good works are of Father and Father alone, is not Father the only one Good per Jesus?
I see any and all of me works as filthy rags
Stephen was stoned to death for saying God does not live in buildings, that takes away the earthly power of Churches and having others over you?
So now do you want to stone me, or have a discussion and hear what each other says and not make judments one to another for:
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Any fighting between each other just shows flesh attitudes, carnal nature that is not dead or considered dead by Christ at Christ's death for them and all, you think truth or error

 

[homwardbound]

Really I don't know how to explain this again but I'll try ,,, Grace is the divine favour free gift you get from God. What is that free gift salvation of course. How do you receive it, through faith ( belief and trust in and loyalty to God)

If I say I will give you a million dollars free just believe me you don't have to pay anything.all you have to do is walk to the vault follow some instructions to the letter and pick it up.
How will I know if you believe me? When you go to the vault and follow the instructions of course.

Another view for you on this same million:
I tell you, you have a million dollars in the bank and unless you go to the bank, and verify this you won't believe. When you do go and verify this truth, how will, one react?
Will one go to the teller and ask how to withdraw the money? Or will one withdraw as needed?
You see the bank is your new heart and Father is there for you to withdraw as you need, because through Son you have all you need for life and Godliness
Now that is exercising Faith in the finished work of Son at the cross, includes resurrected Christ, without the resurrected Christ we are dead, and not alive and sin is not taken away and we are to be pitied of all people if Christ is not resurrected

 

[Jabberjaw]

Another view for you on this same million:
I tell you, you have a million dollars in the bank and unless you go to the bank, and verify this you won't believe.

So you admit you must "do something"?

Cassan has been asking for pages now what the Gift is, and you or nobody else has answered him (or at least not correctly), the free Gift was promised from the beginning, it was not a new concept started with the NT, it was/is the Messiah (The Christ) and by and through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM can we "obtain" <--- see that word? ill repeat it "obtain" which means it is available conditionally, and the conditions are set by the Messiah, it is by the Grace of God we have a Messiah, it is by faith in this Messiah we have been "offered" salvation, and like the Patriarchs lived by "faith/obedience in/to the Lord" so too "must" we.

 

[chubbena]

So you admit you must "do something"?

Cassan has been asking for pages now what the Gift is, and you or nobody else has answered him (or at least not correctly), the free Gift was promised from the beginning, it was not a new concept started with the NT, it was/is the Messiah (The Christ) and by and through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM can we "obtain" <--- see that word? ill repeat it "obtain" which means it is available conditionally, and the conditions are set by the Messiah, it is by the Grace of God we have a Messiah, it is by faith in this Messiah we have been "offered" salvation, and like the Patriarchs lived by "faith/obedience in/to the Lord" so too "must" we.

The Israel nation served as our example. They were saved unconditionally from slavery in Egypt and we saw how many in that generation were able to enter the promised land. c.f. 1 Cor 10.

 

[homwardbound]

So you admit you must "do something"?

Cassan has been asking for pages now what the Gift is, and you or nobody else has answered him (or at least not correctly), the free Gift was promised from the beginning, it was not a new concept started with the NT, it was/is the Messiah (The Christ) and by and through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM can we "obtain" <--- see that word? ill repeat it "obtain" which means it is available conditionally, and the conditions are set by the Messiah, it is by the Grace of God we have a Messiah, it is by faith in this Messiah we have been "offered" salvation, and like the Patriarchs lived by "faith/obedience in/to the Lord" so too "must" we.

Believe, receive and see, what more needs to be done? I am a responder to the love of Father through Son, not a creator, born as a Son of Adam as what I was when first born in the flesh here on earth
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the seed represents the people of the Kingdom; the thistles are the people belonging to Satan.

God just loves you and all is that true or not, whether one works or not?

 

[homwardbound]

The Israel nation served as our example. They were saved unconditionally from slavery in Egypt and we saw how many in that generation were able to enter the promised land. c.f. 1 Cor 10.

Luke 7:50 And Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Romans 3:28 So it is that we are saved by faith in Christ and not by the good things we do.
Romans 3:31 Well then, if we are saved by faith, does this mean that we no longer need obey God’s laws? Just the opposite! In fact, only when we trust Jesus can we truly obey him.

 

[Apostol2013]

So you admit you must "do something"?

Cassan has been asking for pages now what the Gift is, and you or nobody else has answered him (or at least not correctly), the free Gift was promised from the beginning, it was not a new concept started with the NT, it was/is the Messiah (The Christ) and by and through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM can we "obtain" <--- see that word? ill repeat it "obtain" which means it is available conditionally, and the conditions are set by the Messiah, it is by the Grace of God we have a Messiah, it is by faith in this Messiah we have been "offered" salvation, and like the Patriarchs lived by "faith/obedience in/to the Lord" so too "must" we.

What howardbound is saying is that the works we do it is not us that does them but God for us , we simply obey that is our Father glorified in Christ His beloved Son . Now yes there are works but works of faith as result of the transformation in Christ through His death and resurection wich we are to be partakers , but to the babies yes you are suppose to do the works of righteousness in the spirit where there is no room for sin sowing to the everlating life.

 

[VCO]

So you admit you must "do something"?

Cassan has been asking for pages now what the Gift is, and you or nobody else has answered him (or at least not correctly), the free Gift was promised from the beginning, it was not a new concept started with the NT, it was/is the Messiah (The Christ) and by and through Him and ONLY THROUGH HIM can we "obtain" <--- see that word? ill repeat it "obtain" which means it is available conditionally, and the conditions are set by the Messiah, it is by the Grace of God we have a Messiah, it is by faith in this Messiah we have been "offered" salvation, and like the Patriarchs lived by "faith/obedience in/to the Lord" so too "must" we.

Jabberjaw,

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU, genuine Salvation via the Holy Spirit, WILL PRODUCE GOOD WORKS, via the ability the Holy Spirit Gives us. We don't care if you don't believe it, that is your CHOICE. It is NOT our place to MAKE you Believe, that is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit HIMSELF, who is part of the Holy Trinity. We are called by GOD to present our Beliefs and support them with HIS HOLY WORD. So you do not interpret the verses the same way we do, that we actually expect from one with your background.

John 10:26-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Oh how man in his pride wants to take credit for some part of his Salvation.

Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh.
For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.

Galatians 2:19-21 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]12[/SUP]Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who ⌊comes⌋ from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
[SUP]14[/SUP]But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who has known the Lord’s mind, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

John 14:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26[/SUP]But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

NO, if we HEAR with understanding, that is PURELY a work of the HOLY SPIRIT. We do not get to pat ourselves on the back for ANY part of our Salvation. If we have received Jesus Christ as LORD and Master, it is the HOLY SPIRIT that gave us that ability through Faith, which is part of GOD's free gift of HIS GRACE. The fact that we have genuine Faith that produces a desire in us to continually strive to OBEY HIM, validates that the HOLY SPIRIT continually is at work in our hearts. ALL THE GLORY GOES TO GOD.

That is more of the pearls we believe in than I said I would give you. I hope you are thankful to GOD, because I was ready to just shake the dust from my feet and walk away. With you it seems to be a GAME that you must win. With us, we are not even playing the Game, but in reality we are just presenting the TRUTH of GOD exactly as HE has put it on our hearts to share them. You want to choose to believe something else, that is between you and GOD. But know that we have made you accountable for the TRUTH.

 

[Cassian]

Jabberjaw,

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU, genuine Salvation via the Holy Spirit, WILL PRODUCE GOOD WORKS, via the ability the Holy Spirit Gives us. We don't care if you don't believe it, that is your CHOICE. It is NOT our place to MAKE you Believe, that is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit HIMSELF, who is part of the Holy Trinity. We are called by GOD to present our Beliefs and support them with HIS HOLY WORD. So you do not interpret the verses the same way we do, that we actually expect from one with your background.

John 10:26-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Oh how man in his pride wants to take credit for some part of his Salvation.

Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh.
For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.

Galatians 2:19-21 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (HCSB)
[SUP]12[/SUP]Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who ⌊comes⌋ from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
[SUP]14[/SUP]But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For who has known the Lord’s mind, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

John 14:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26[/SUP]But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

NO, if we HEAR with understanding, that is PURELY a work of the HOLY SPIRIT. We do not get to pat ourselves on the back for ANY part of our Salvation. If we have received Jesus Christ as LORD and Master, it is the HOLY SPIRIT that gave us that ability through Faith, which is part of GOD's free gift of HIS GRACE. The fact that we have genuine Faith that produces a desire in us to continually strive to OBEY HIM, validates that the HOLY SPIRIT continually is at work in our hearts. ALL THE GLORY GOES TO GOD.

That is more of the pearls we believe in than I said I would give you. I hope you are thankful to GOD, because I was ready to just shake the dust from my feet and walk away. With you it seems to be a GAME that you must win. With us, we are not even playing the Game, but in reality we are just presenting the TRUTH of GOD exactly as HE has put it on our hearts to share them. You want to choose to believe something else, that is between you and GOD. But know that we have made you accountable for the TRUTH.

A good job of cherry picking again.

this is quite a picked cherry....

John 14:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26[/SUP]But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

So you claim to be an Apostles. How come you changed your name? Are you Peter, John, Matthew, which one?

Before you claim to have that special spiritual ability, there should be at least some evidence of it. I don't see any.
Especially since you are following two man made theories in your explanations. Not very spiritual.

You also list several texts of God's promises to a believer, but none from the believers side of the covenant. Covenants have two sides, it is a mutual agreement.

Or, it is possible that you do not believe we have a mutual relationship with Christ. It is more a fixed arrangement which is actually what you have been describing all along. You have also conflated the Salvation that Christ gives to us, and man's response to that Gift.

 

[VCO]

A good job of cherry picking again.

this is quite a picked cherry....
So you claim to be an Apostles. How come you changed your name? Are you Peter, John, Matthew, which one?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Before you claim to have that special spiritual ability, there should be at least some evidence of it. I don't see any.
Especially since you are following two man made theories in your explanations. Not very spiritual.

You also list several texts of God's promises to a believer, but none from the believers side of the covenant. Covenants have two sides, it is a mutual agreement.

Or, it is possible that you do not believe we have a mutual relationship with Christ. It is more a fixed arrangement which is actually what you have been describing all along. You have also conflated the Salvation that Christ gives to us, and man's response to that Gift.

Matthew 7:15-17 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

I BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAYS IN HIS WORD! You make up excuses NOT TO BELIEVE IT.

Matthew 7:22-23 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
(In Other Words: Do many works to earn our Salvation.)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Oh, just so you know, one of the requirements to be eligible for the POSITION of Apostle, was to have seen the Resurrected LORD in person.

 

[Cassian]

Matthew 7:15-17 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

I BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAYS IN HIS WORD! You make up excuses NOT TO BELIEVE IT.

after a history of 2000 years, it becomes very easy to know a false teaching. The Church has used the law of faith to determine false teachings for 2000 years. The rule is that if it was not from the beginning, taught to all and everywhere it is not the Gospel of Christ. Man has not been able to change that Gospel in 2000 years. That is the power and witness of the Holy Spirit in time.

Your teaching may be acceptable to you, you are certainly free to believe it, but it is not scriptural, has never been a teaching of scripture. If it was the Gospel, Christians would have held the belief from the beginning. However, it is easy also to trace the theology you are espousing to very specific individuals who developed the theories.

You believe your interpretation of scripture, no different than any other sola scripturist, from Luther, Calvin to the latest of Sumner and Lorber. Six months from now there will probably be a newer version of the Bible according to some other guy.

Matthew 7:22-23 (NIV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
(In Other Words: Do many works to earn our Salvation.)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Nice cherry picking again. Why not take the whole parable, which is called the last Judgement. Read what it says about doing to those who are the least, because they were mine. The part that you post is not that the works were not necessary, but that they did not continue. That last part is in the past tense. One is saved ONLY if one believes, not has believed. Huge difference, in fact the difference between heaven and hell.

Oh, just so you know, one of the requirements to be eligible for the POSITION of Apostle, was to have seen the Resurrected LORD in person.

Yes, I know, so why did you claim to be an Apostle? That was my question. Or do you not understand the text you cited with its context, John 14:26. See your post #2911 and the subsequent ones that quoted it as well.

 

[ThomistColin]

"Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is not alone"

- John Calvin

Interesting since the only time, faith alone is found in the Bible say we are not saved by faith alone.

 

[VCO]

after a history of 2000 years, it becomes very easy to know a false teaching. The Church has used the law of faith to determine false teachings for 2000 years. The rule is that if it was not from the beginning, taught to all and everywhere it is not the Gospel of Christ. Man has not been able to change that Gospel in 2000 years. That is the power and witness of the Holy Spirit in time.

Your teaching may be acceptable to you, you are certainly free to believe it, but it is not scriptural, has never been a teaching of scripture. If it was the Gospel, Christians would have held the belief from the beginning. However, it is easy also to trace the theology you are espousing to very specific individuals who developed the theories.

You believe your interpretation of scripture, no different than any other sola scripturist, from Luther, Calvin to the latest of Sumner and Lorber. Six months from now there will probably be a newer version of the Bible according to some other guy.


[/COLOR] Nice cherry picking again. Why not take the whole parable, which is called the last Judgement. Read what it says about doing to those who are the least, because they were mine. The part that you post is not that the works were not necessary, but that they did not continue. That last part is in the past tense. One is saved ONLY if one believes, not has believed. Huge difference, in fact the difference between heaven and hell.

[/COLOR]Yes, I know, so why did you claim to be an Apostle? That was my question. Or do you not understand the text you cited with its context, John 14:26. See your post #2911 and the subsequent ones that quoted it as well.

2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

So you never answered my question.

Do you believe Jesus is GOD in the Flesh, the Second Person in the HOLY TRINITY, WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS?

I never claimed to be an Apostle, it is not my fault if you do not have spiritual understanding of Bible Truths.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[thecreationtutor]

This is A issue I am dealing with in this thread.

My position is one must do obedient works in order to become saved and faithful works and good works in order to remain saved...one must do works BEFORE and AFTER salvation.
In this thread, I have been willing to ASSUME that "Joe" can become saved by faith only (no works). NOW that "Joe" is a Christian, can he continue to do NO WORKS and remain save?

Some faith only proponents say "Joe" does works in order to prove he has been saved.

So here's the big question: Can Christian Joe NOT do those post-salvation works yet still be saved?

If the "faith only" proponent says "no" then he is making savlation conditional upon works.

If the "faith only" proponent answers "yes" then the those post-salvation are not necesary for proof of savlation defeating thier own proposition that he must do works to prove he was saved.


So what is a "faith only" proponent to do?

sounds more like wanting to be justified by your works

 

[Kerry]

It's more like what you will allow the Holy Spirit to do in you and through you rather than what you do in the flesh.

 

[Cassian]

2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

And how does this help your view. Protestants have been furtively struggling to find out what it even means for 500 years. How can you use it to teach, to rebuke when you don't even know what it means.
What you and all sola scripturists have done is developed your own personal interpretation of scripture, then use it to teach and rebuke. Which is why Mormons and Lutherans, and Lorbers group can all use scripture and all can use this text. How quaint.

So you never answered my question.

Do you believe Jesus is GOD in the Flesh, the Second Person in the HOLY TRINITY, WHO IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS?

Did the Church define apophetically the doctrine of the Trinity in the 4th century? I happen to be a member of that Church, the Orthodox Church.

I never claimed to be an Apostle, it is not my fault if you do not have spiritual understanding of Bible Truths.

When you quoted John 14:26, as you, a believer, who will be reminded by the Holy Spirit what was taught to them. That makes you an Apostle since that is the context of the verse. Obviously, I can understand why you don't understand other texts either.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

and how does the help a sola scripturist? You forget that there are thousands of traditions who all use scripture and all arrive at different meanings, and guess what. They ALL CITE THIS TEXT to justify their opinion. Another one of those--how quaint.

 

[Jabberjaw]

2 Timothy 3:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,

And how does this help your view. Protestants have been furtively struggling to find out what it even means for 500 years. How can you use it to teach, to rebuke when you don't even know what it means.
What you and all sola scripturists have done is developed your own personal interpretation of scripture, then use it to teach and rebuke. Which is why Mormons and Lutherans, and Lorbers group can all use scripture and all can use this text. How quaint.

Are you saying here that man cannot understand the Holy Writ without the help of traditions passed down from church fathers or their catechisms etc... ?

and how does the help a sola scripturist? You forget that there are thousands of traditions who all use scripture and all arrive at different meanings, and guess what. They ALL CITE THIS TEXT to justify their opinion. Another one of those--how quaint.

I am confused again, in the first part you say "how does this help a sola scripturist, then say "there are thousands of traditions who all use scripture and all arrive at different meanings" (of which I agree at with the second part, traditions of men have cause all kinds of division).

Are you for or against sola scripture? because I believe the bible is "all" that is needed, and I believe 2 Tim 3:16 says just that.