Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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Spokenpassage

Guest
Taylor, I once "believed" before I truly was converted. There is a huge difference, I know the first had a lot to do with ignorance and rejection. God quickens us to be alive (Eph. 2:1-5), draws us to Christ (John 6:44), and faith comes from hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17), and faith is given to us who are both called and drawn by His amazing grace (Eph. 2:8-10).
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Taylor, I once "believed" before I truly was converted. There is a huge difference, I know the first had a lot to do with ignorance and rejection. God quickens us to be alive (Eph. 2:1-5), draws us to Christ (John 6:44), and faith comes from hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17), and faith is given to us who are both called and drawn by His amazing grace (Eph. 2:8-10).
'Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me,
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.'
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
'Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me,
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.'
Amen! I can never ever ever ever take any credit in any part of my salvation. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me! :( :)
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Amen! I can never ever ever ever take any credit in any part of my salvation. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me! :( :)
' 'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved,
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.'
 
A

Alligator

Guest
A biblical, saving faith is a work, you cannot separate the two
NO! Saving Faith is what the HOLY SPIRIT does in the Heart to prepare the Soil to receive the seed (the word of GOD), remember the Parable of the Sower.

That soil has been Tilled, Fertilized, and Watered by the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF. You are trying to ROB GOD OF HIS GLORY FOR THE SALVATION THAT IS a Free GIFT, from HIS GRACE AND MERCY, THAT HE BRINGS INTO OUR HEARTS THROUGH THE FAITH HE PUT THERE. REPENT!
This post makes no sense whatsoever
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Re: Spokenpassage

:mad: :mad: :mad:

. . .

It's already bad enough that we tell Atheists and buddhists that they're going to Hell.

:( Telling fellow Christians (especially Children) that they're going to Hell is even worse. :(

Matthew 25:40 Whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do to me.

My turn to weigh in on this subject Taylor.

You know I will let Scripture speak to you as much as I can:

Acts 20:27 (ASV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For I shrank not from declaring unto you the whole counsel of God.

Acts 20:27 (NAB)
27
for I did not shrink from proclaiming to you the entire plan of God.



Now, does the "whole counsel of GOD" or "entire plan of GOD" include warning people about HELL?



Matthew 18:8 (GW)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] “If your hand or your foot causes you to lose your faith, cut it off and throw it away (symbolism for remove yourself from whatever is leading you down the wrong path to the destruction of Hell ). It is better for you to enter life disabled or injured than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP] for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


Matthew 3:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 7:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
[SUP]49 [/SUP] So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
[SUP]50 [/SUP] and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

John 15:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Revelation 20:9-10 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.

Matthew 10:28 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear Him (reverant respect and submissiveness ) who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Notice the human spirit of the unbelievers are not destroyed by that fire. )

Jude 1:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

Revelation 14:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

2 Corinthians 13:2 (ESV)
[SUP]2[/SUP] I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them—

Okay, it is obvious that the LORD HIMSELF CONSIDERED IT VERY IMPORTANT TO WARN PEOPLE ABOUT HELL. It is called TOUGH LOVE. I know the "love only, easy believism gospel" sounds right, but it is a COUNTERFEIT of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

YES we warn them in love, always in a way that gently encourages them to repent, but we certainly are supposed to WARN THEM.

Here is a way to gently present the TRUE Gospel, to small Children, but I would personally expand the explanation of sin to include the consequences of refusing to believe in JESUS, leads to eternal separation from GOD, in Hell. WHY? RE-READ all the above verses: Wordless Book
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Taylor, I once "believed" before I truly was converted. There is a huge difference, I know the first had a lot to do with ignorance and rejection. God quickens us to be alive (Eph. 2:1-5), draws us to Christ (John 6:44), and faith comes from hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17), and faith is given to us who are both called and drawn by His amazing grace (Eph. 2:8-10).

TAYLOR, please read this too.

I too believed intellectually that the stories about Jesus were true, my whole life up to age 29. I thought that kind of "believe" plus taking up space on a pew once in awhile, made me a CHRISTIAN. But HEY, even the demons believe that much. And sitting on a pew did not make me a Christian anymore than sitting in a Garage would make me a CAR. I found out what it really meant to be BELIEVE from the heart (NOT just in my head) after a third attempt at suicide, when the pride of running my own life my own way, broke and the Holy Spirit brought DEEP conviction of my sinful lifestyle into my heart, and I fell on my knees WEEPING in shame, desperately crying out to HIM, "LORD forgive me, if you have a purpose for my life, you will have to come into it and run it, because I can't do it. I am making a mess of it." I was making a complete surrender to Jesus Christ forever, willingly giving HIM total control over my life. THAT IS THE NIGHT I DISCOVERED the depth and intimate relationship one can have with JESUS CHRIST. THAT is what it really means to BELIEVE. That was 36 years ago, and Jesus has been doing a MUCH BETTER JOB of running my life than I ever did.
 
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The prodigal son also never stopped being the son. He was born into his fathers family, and he remained his fathers son throughout.

He just missed out on his father's temporal blessings.
Eg,You keep leaving out the fact that despite the fact that the son remained a son,the Father said His son was DEAD. Not alive,if the son died BEFORE returning to the Father would the son have been alive or DEAD to the Father in that state? He may have been a son to the Father BUT HE STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN A DEAD son. He still would have been DEAD TO THE FATHER.
 
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See the point that is MISSED is that even though he is a son,it DID NOT help Him in His Fathers eyes. The Father very plainly says His son was DEAD. Just BECAUSE he was a son did NOT change the fact that the Father saw the son as being DEAD. OSAS must put the emphasis on the fact he is a son NEVER on the fact that the Father saw the son as being DEAD despite the fact he was a son.
 
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Please clarify to me here if I am wrong your obedient Faith as I am seeing is from works true or false?
And if true whose works yours?

Obedient faith has obedient works. Abraham certainly did not have faith only, Heb 11:8,17.
 
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I am so sorry you do not see the love of God first that brings us to love God
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us

Jn 14:15 Jesus equated love with keeping God's commandments. God loves man, man reciprocates that love by obeying God.

No obedience = no love for God. Even though God loves me, if I do not obey Him, that lack of obedient works prove I do not love God back.
 
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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you do play a good twister game, as the serpent deceived Eve in twisting things to look as pleasant and take eat their of, wow God forbid
She did not trust God and ate; therefor Adam did the same, because they Did not beleive God wholly, as you by your posts do not either, wholly; and to me now I see a deceiver, whether you see this consciously or not; only father knows and so I pray for your blessing in love and Mercy from Father through Christ the Son
So that as that person was kicked out to be desroyed by the devil so that maybe, his soul will be saved
All in love to you friend, all in love and Mercy from Father to show you, not to play, with the almighty
thanks for prayerfully listening

I am just show the conclusion of his theory. He wants the Holy Spirit to have 100% control over repentance and so he wants the HS to get the all credit when one repents. So logically the HS gets the all the blame if one does not repent, for man would have no input in this, it's all 100% upon the HS if one repents or not.
 
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But I have and you do not see, unfortunately blinded by the light, praying for you friend:
Colossians 1:1-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [SUP]2 [/SUP]to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, [SUP]4 [/SUP]since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, [SUP]5 [/SUP]for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; [SUP]6 [/SUP]which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: [SUP]7 [/SUP]as ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; [SUP]8 [/SUP]who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [SUP]11 [/SUP]strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; [SUP]12 [/SUP]giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [SUP]15 [/SUP]who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [SUP]16 [/SUP]for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Mt 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and
doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"

Mt 7:26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and
doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:"

Jn 3:20,21 "For every one that
doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Jn 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, anddoeth his will, him he heareth."

Eph 6:8 "Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether
he be bond or free."

James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

1 Jn 2:17 "And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that
doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

1 Jn 2:29 "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that
doeth righteousness is born of him."

1 Jn 3:7,10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that
doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoeverdoeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

3 Jn 1:11 "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that
doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

1 Jn 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and
do not the truth:"

Rev 22:14 "Blessed
are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

1 Jn 3:22 "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and
dothose things that are pleasing in his sight."

2 Pet 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

2 Th 3:4 "And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both
do and will do the things which we command you."

Gal 6:10 "As we have therefore opportunity, let us
do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

1 Cor 11:24 "And when he had given thanks, he brake
it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me."

1 Cor 10:31 "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye
do, do all to the glory of God."

Acts 16:30 "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I
do to be saved?"

Acts 9:6 "And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord
saidunto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do."

Jn 15:14 "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you."

Jn 13:15,17 "For I have given you an example, that ye should
do as I have done to you. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

Lk 10:27,28 "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right:
this do, and thou shalt live.

Lk 8:21 "And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and
do it."


These verses are proof positive that no doing = no salvation.
 
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Saving Faith is to consciously beleive or not beleive, that is the only thing Christ never died for. And that is brought you by the Holy Spirit of truth of God to either beleive God or not and not add anything as you are doing quite sneakily
Blasphemy against the Spirit of Father is not forgiven, either inn this world or the world to come

This is a serious matter, to either truly believe or not, and I am making no judgment to you from me, why? because I truist Father through Son
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Father gives the increase, not I, not you or anyone else, I am nothing more than a witness to the Love and Mercy of God that I do not take for granted
The mystery of the Gospel since the beginning all God, the creator of all, me being the creation can only respond with thanksgiving and praise, and not do anymore creating as in doing works for others to be pleased by me and pat me on the back as if God is pleased with flesh nature works
So tell me does the clay say to the potter why am I made this way?
Do you think the creator responds to his creation as if the creation made God, God forbid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faith is a work, 1 Thess 1:3; Mk 2:5 else it is dead and worthless, useless.
 
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By this post here you just negated free will to choose to believe or not, the invitation is still out here today, you are invited to the wedding, praying by Father you are coming
For he knows who believes and who just say they do
Love you anyway, and this love will not stop pursuing you, for it is not mine it is my Father's through Son Christ who is the propitiation for you, and all the world for salvation that is being preached to you


No, it is poster "VCO" that tries to put the Holy Spirit 100% control of who repents or does not repent.
 
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NO! Saving Faith is what the HOLY SPIRIT does in the Heart to prepare the Soil to receive the seed (the word of GOD), remember the Parable of the Sower.

That soil has been Tilled, Fertilized, and Watered by the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF. You are trying to ROB GOD OF HIS GLORY FOR THE SALVATION THAT IS a Free GIFT, from HIS GRACE AND MERCY, THAT HE BRINGS INTO OUR HEARTS THROUGH THE FAITH HE PUT THERE. REPENT!

The Holy Spirits word is the seed (Lk 8:11) that is implanted in the hearts of men when they hear that word (Rom 10:17). It depends upon the heart of man that hear if that seed is believed and grows in their heart and or if they do not believe and the seed does not grow, does not take root.
 
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Amen! I can never ever ever ever take any credit in any part of my salvation. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me! :( :)

Acts 2:40--------- "...save yourselves..."
1 Tim 4:16------- "...save thyself..."
Phil 2:12--------- "..work out your own salvation..."
1 Pet 1:22-------- "Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth..."


Obviously man has a role in his own salvation.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Obedient faith has obedient works. Abraham certainly did not have faith only, Heb 11:8,17.
Seabass, you almost got that statement 100% right, you only need to let go of those presuppositions a little bit more, and state it:

Genuine faith produces obedient works.

COME, GOD is calling you. :)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,993
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Acts 2:40--------- "...save yourselves..."
1 Tim 4:16------- "...save thyself..."
Phil 2:12--------- "..work out your own salvation..."
1 Pet 1:22-------- "Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth..."


Obviously man has a role in his own salvation.
YES but OUR ROLE comes AFTER WE ARE SAVED by GOD's free gift Salvation by GRACE:

Romans 4:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.


Acts 2:40--------- {If you truly are a saved Child of GOD, you will have nothing to do with this crooked generation.}

1 Tim 4:16------- {Genuine saved Children of GOD persist in guarding their lifestyle and doctrinal teachings. Ultimately only GOD does the saving, via the Holy Spirit IN US.}

Phil 2:12--------- "..work out your own salvation..." { If you were genuinely SAVED, you will act like a Child of GOD! }

1 Pet 1:22--------Those who WERE GENUINELY SAVED, will have this characteristic produced in them, because of that genuine Salvation: "Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth..."
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Obedient faith has obedient works. Abraham certainly did not have faith only, Heb 11:8,17.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but his work did prove or manifest the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous." Works bear out the justification that comes by faith (Romans 5:1)

Abraham was not saved by works. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.

Paul uses the term justified to refer to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would show and thus prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do (James 2:14-24). James is discussing the proof of faith, not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God.