The Sabbath.

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gotime said:
Do we interpret scripture by the Early Fathers?

Or do we use scripture to interpret scripture?

Because if we are going to be bible Christians then Scripture is what defines its own terms.

Jesus said:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Could you please show me a scripture in which the Lords Day means the day you think?
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the reason for referencing the church fathers is to show that this notion that 'the lord's day' refers to the sabbath is a completely modern innovation...-nobody- believed this until modern cults made it up...

scripture simply does not define which day of the week 'the lord's day' is...but until modern times nobody has ever thought that it was anything other than sunday...including the closest followers of the apostles who certainly received the correct teaching from them...

if you are going to claim that the entire christian church including the direct followers of the apostles was blatantly wrong until you came along...then the burden of proof is on you...
 
9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died;

Rom 7:9 is the monkey-wrench-in-the-Christian life verse!

Sing it:
"I was sailing along, on Moonlight Bay,
I could hear the freedom calling,
it seemed to say,
"Law was nailed to the cross,
sail smooth away,"
As we sang our living song on Moonlight Bay.

But then someone threw a monkey wrench into our Christian life machinery!
Blam, blam, clinkle, clinkle!

 I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died;

1 Cor 15: "The sting of death is sin; and
the power of sin is the law: but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
 
Atwood said:
9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died;

Rom 7:9 is the monkey-wrench-in-the-Christian life verse!

Sing it:
"I was sailing along, on Moonlight Bay,
I could hear the freedom calling,
it seemed to say,
"Law was nailed to the cross,
sail smooth away,"
As we sang our living song on Moonlight Bay.

But then someone threw a monkey wrench into our Christian life machinery!
Blam, blam, clinkle, clinkle!

I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died;

1 Cor 15: "The sting of death is sin; and
the power of sin is the law: but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Click to expand...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Paul makes it clear what he meant, the law simply revealed a reality I was not aware of before it came. I was already dead. the problem was with me not the law.

So Do you think Jesus came to destroy sin or the law?

Jesus did not come to take away that which is good but rather to take away our sins.
 
one other thing about the definition of 'the lord's day'...

it is worth pointing out that in all five of john's writings he always refers to the sabbath simply as 'the sabbath'...this was his writing style...whenever john wanted to talk about the sabbath he plainly said 'the sabbath'...

there is really no reason to assume that john suddenly changed his vocabulary in a way that would add unnecessary obscuration to what is really just a minor and non proscriptive detail in the revelation narrative...

so the most likely conclusion is that if john didn't use the term 'sabbath'...he probably meant some other day...

and as i pointed out earlier...everyone in the early church seemed to have understood that the day referred to was sunday...even one of john's own students called sunday 'the lord's day'
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
one other thing about the definition of 'the lord's day'...

it is worth pointing out that in all five of john's writings he always refers to the sabbath simply as 'the sabbath'...this was his writing style...whenever john wanted to talk about the sabbath he plainly said 'the sabbath'...

there is really no reason to assume that john suddenly changed his vocabulary in a way that would add unnecessary obscuration to what is really just a minor and non proscriptive detail in the revelation narrative...

so the most likely conclusion is that if john didn't use the term 'sabbath'...he probably meant some other day...

and as i pointed out earlier...everyone in the early church seemed to have understood that the day referred to was sunday...even one of john's own students called sunday 'the lord's day'
Click to expand...

This is assumption. There is no evidence at all in the bible that God changed the Sabbath. none. People that say that Sunday is the Lords day can only use assumption because there is no command to do so anywhere. There is no command whatsoever that the Lord changed the Sabbath. Sorry I don't buy it. I want to see a thus saith the Lord somewhere that He changed the Sabbath at all.
 
gotime said:
This is assumption. There is no evidence at all in the bible that God changed the Sabbath. none. People that say that Sunday is the Lords day can only use assumption because there is no command to do so anywhere. There is no command whatsoever that the Lord changed the Sabbath. Sorry I don't buy it. I want to see a thus saith the Lord somewhere that He changed the Sabbath at all.
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i haven't claimed that God changed the sabbath...i am just saying that the one time 'the lord's day' is mentioned in scripture almost definitely refers to sunday instead of the sabbath...
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
i haven't claimed that God changed the sabbath...i am just saying that the one time 'the lord's day' is mentioned in scripture almost definitely refers to sunday instead of the sabbath...
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Can you support that with scripture or is that just an opinion of that verse.
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
i haven't claimed that God changed the sabbath...i am just saying that the one time 'the lord's day' is mentioned in scripture almost definitely refers to sunday instead of the sabbath...
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Ok I apologize for my error. but I agree with Lao. I do not accept any teaching unless it comes with a thus says the Lord/bible based proof.
 
In my search there are a number of options.

1. The Day of the Lord which refers to his wrath. nope.
2. Feast Days. nope
3. Sabbath day. In my search this is the Only day that could fit.

John was not in the spirit on the day of wrath.
John would not mention a feast day being that it was fulfilled in Jesus.
The Sabbath is the only one that fits.

and there is scripture Mark 2:27

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

No doubt John uses the word Lord in reference to Jesus.

I only know of one other place where this particular word is used:

1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

Clearly a reference to Jesus.

There is only one place where I know of that Jesus claims to be lord of any day.

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luk 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
Luk 6:4 How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?
Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

So the only reference I can see is to the Sabbath.

However I will say this, The Lords day is also mentioned in the gospels and the Old testament as the day of wrath. It may be possible that the Lords Day is reference to what he sees in the Spirit. In other words the Spirit showed Him the Lords day. being that Revelation reveals the day of Wrath.

Maybe maybe not. only just thought of that now. have to check.
 
The Sabbath command God gives us 6 days for ourself but the 7th day is His day. It is called the Sabbath of the Lord, therefore the Lord's day is the Sabbath.

Exodus 20:9-10 KJV
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
it is worth pointing out that in all five of john's writings he always refers to the sabbath simply as 'the sabbath'...this was his writing style...whenever john wanted to talk about the sabbath he plainly said 'the sabbath'...

and as i pointed out earlier...everyone in the early church seemed to have understood that the day referred to was sunday...even one of john's own students called sunday 'the lord's day'
Click to expand...

I am sorry but you have confused me. In the comment above you said it was only referred to once and in this comment you said John referred to it five times and then you say everyone in the early church...If it was only referred to once how did everyone in the early church know that it meant Sunday.
 
Also with the 10 commandments if you have 9 apart from the Sabbath commandment then those commands could be to any god But, with the Sabbath command in there it shows who the commandments belong to.
 
Laodicea said:
The Sabbath command God gives us 6 days for ourself but the 7th day is His day. It is called the Sabbath of the Lord, therefore the Lord's day is the Sabbath.

Exodus 20:9-10 KJV
(9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
(10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
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You have this all wrong....(10) does NOT say The Lords day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God. It says SEVENTH DAY in the verse. Nor does it say NOT to pray praise and give thanks to God on any of the other six days.
If God required Himself to rest on the seventh day and make it a holy day of rest, it was given to us also as an example to us to follow because we need guidance. The day of the Lord is Sunday read your bible.
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
why? if paul by the holy spirit's inspiration wrote something...then nothing jesus said could contradict that...otherwise God would be giving conflicting messages...
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Paul's words were a commentary on what, and who already existed.

What did the original words and instructions from God/Jesus say? Then we can find out how Paul's words line up with them and what he is REALLY saying.

And God said His law (including Sabbath) was forever.
Jesus told His disciples to follow the Law forever.

Then anything Paul says HAS to agree with this (and does).

Any interpretation of his words saying anything different than this is a misinterpretation.
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
the reason for referencing the church fathers is to show that this notion that 'the lord's day' refers to the sabbath is a completely modern innovation...-nobody- believed this until modern cults made it up...

scripture simply does not define which day of the week 'the lord's day' is...but until modern times nobody has ever thought that it was anything other than sunday...including the closest followers of the apostles who certainly received the correct teaching from them...

if you are going to claim that the entire christian church including the direct followers of the apostles was blatantly wrong until you came along...then the burden of proof is on you...
Click to expand...

Why that was a controversy that Polycarp dealt with.

You are making this up, right?
 
Proverbs 19:16

Amplified Bible (AMP)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]He who keeps the commandment [of the Lord] keeps his own life, but he who despises His ways shall die.

My devotional book pointed me to this chapter today and this verse was a part of it. Since the Sabbath is part of the commandments I thought it would apply to this thread.
 
crossnote said:
My point was, you can't connect the Creation Sabbath to the one given to Moses because...
1. different Hebrew words.
2. no command is attached to God resting in Genesis.
It may be a pattern for the Mosaic Shabbat but it does not follow it is of any command for all to rest on a 7th Day.

BTW I'm not against resting one day out of seven (I'd hate to have no rest day), it's just trying to turn it into a command for the church is what is misguided.
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I would just like to point out to your last BTW that it was God who gave the command all 10 of them not us mere mortals.
 
directline2iam said:
You have this all wrong....(10) does NOT say The Lords day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God. It says SEVENTH DAY in the verse. Nor does it say NOT to pray praise and give thanks to God on any of the other six days.
If God required Himself to rest on the seventh day and make it a holy day of rest, it was given to us also as an example to us to follow because we need guidance. The day of the Lord is Sunday read your bible.
Click to expand...
The same tactics can be used to say homosexuality is not a sin because the word is never used in the bible.
 
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