Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[newbirth]

But we have people who do works to save themselves. Thus they look really no different than people with faith (except for the arrogance and boasting of their works) and thus we have the problem.

Why boast of a work when men will see it and glorify God in heaven?

It is easy to tell a licentious person who does not work. It is hard to tell a religious person who is doing work. But for the wrong reason

.[/QUOTE]

Why would you want to go around watching to see who is working for whatever reason
With regards to work.Some people Obey God, some don't and this is my good works and this is the truth it is either good or evil or are you lukewarm?
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[feedm3]

Why boast of a work when men will see it and glorify God in heaven?
.

Why would you want to go around watching to see who is working for whatever reason
With regards to work.Some people Obey God, some don't and this is my good works and this is the truth it is either good or evil or are you lukewarm?
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Wow, very well put NewBirth. Matt 5:16 is perfect for this discussion. Thanks

 

[feedm3]

Eternally, if you are saying a person MUST change his life in order to be saved, or as freedom says "have been saved" then you do believe in what your claiming you do not.

You said we cannot count on ourselves for salvation, but the finished work of Christ on the cross. Then you say if we do not make some change away from sin, (even though we believe - Jn 3:16) then we were never saved?

Your saying two things here. I now see what others are saying. Your saying nothing we can do will cause us to be saved, yet something we do not do can cause us to have never been saved.

Well then we still are counting on ourselves because we have to make sure we complete this change you believe in.

Fact is you are both wrong. You both believe in works and you both do not fully trust in the completed work of the cross.

When one believes, he is saved. No matter what happens after that point, nothing can take away our salvation. Especially sin, because was defeated at Calvary.

You guys need stronger faith. That starts with not trusting in yourself to get to heaven.

As I said before, I do not agree with your view. I do fully trust God enough to know His grace is a gift, yet it commands obedience in order to it to be effective upon each individual.

I will say, at least you are consistent with what you believe. Im so glad someone else has seen through EG's contradiction. You're right, he is saying two things. Teaching two doctrines, I have been telling him this since I fist met him here, yet he continues to deny the paradox obviously others can clearly see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look eternally-blind, it's not about you or me either. When are you going to stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? You like to make assumptions don't you?, unfortunately they're never right.

Your right, It is not about me It is about God And his promise, and his work. Otherwise, I can boast.

Your the one wanting to make it about you. And your attacks prove it You have no god in you. All you know how to do is attack people.

Your the blind one my friend. Its all about YOU!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where did I ever say my works. You say Just faith in Christ no works. Paul say even your faith is a work so no work means you have no faith.

That's not the point.

When are you saved? When you have true faith? Or when you show your first work?

Paul explains this in romans 4. Abraham believed god, And it was accounted to him for righteousness. Abrahams work FOLLOWED HIS FAITH, But he was SAVEd bY FAITH ALONE.

[SUP]

11 [/SUP]Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.


[SUP]2 [/SUP]We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Ok thanks. You showed how a born again adopted child of God should work in faith.

But that is not the topic of discussion. When will you people realise this?

 

[Alligator]

Your right, It is not about me It is about God And his promise, and his work. Otherwise, I can boast.

Your the one wanting to make it about you. And your attacks prove it You have no god in you. All you know how to do is attack people.

Your the blind one my friend. Its all about YOU!

Coming from YOU, that's hilarious

 

[feedm3]

@EG, but if Abraham had no works that followed, he would have never been saved according to you.

Once again, according to what your implying, there are two factors that are essential to salvation. The blood of Christ and the obedience of his followers to His commands in order to receive heaven in the end.

Cant have heaven without the blood of Christ, cant have heaven without obedience to His word.

Okay I can agree with that.

 

[AllForHIm]

That's not the point.

When are you saved? When you have true faith? Or when you show your first work?

Paul explains this in romans 4. Abraham believed god, And it was accounted to him for righteousness. Abrahams work FOLLOWED HIS FAITH, But he was SAVEd bY FAITH ALONE.

Eternally, your now saying we are saved at the moment of belief, which i agree totally.

Yet you just told me if somone is living in sin they were never saved.

If we are saved at the moment of faith, then it would be only because of God's forknowlege in his knowing we were going to have works follow us.

If not having these works can cause us to never have been saved to being with, then God would know the moment we believed if our faith was real or not, which you also said true faith will have works.

You beleive God must determine if we are saved or not by the fact if we have a working future or not.

This is not Faith alone. This is faith and works (now or in the future) you believe they must be there.

This is completely wrong, if you believe then you are saved. Period. If you fall into sin, it's not a good thing, you will have bad results in life, but your faith will save you from hell. If you never repent, and live a life of sin, you are not going to enjoy all the blessings of God. However, you will see heaven thanks to his grace.

I will be posting a study on this soon, with scripture to support my views. I invite you to share in it. I will let you know when I post it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]Giving one the Holy Spirit is NOT baptism. Which is why each was baptised as well.

Your right. that would be the annointing of the spirit. not the Baptism of the spirit. If you do not understand this BASIC doctrinal fact. I guess we can not expect you to understand the rest.

which is your erroneous assumptions again. Scripture states that God uses men and He uses the material world to convey His grace. That you dispute scripture is your choice, but it does not change what scripture has meant for 2000 years without change as the Gospel of Christ as He gave it, unspoiled by men, such as you.

That is exactly what Eph 4:5 states, as does the Nicene Creed almost 4 centuries later and still does today. There has always been ONLY ONE baptism. Water and the Spirit. just as John 3:5 states and depicts entry into His Body, just as Eph 4:5 also states.

God uses men to spread his word. He will not use men to help save people, Man has no power to save anyone.

Yes, there has always been one baptism. Spirit. It saved, only it has the power to cleans you. HS baptism and water baptism are two different baptisms. No matter how you try to twist it.

Christ's mind was made up 2000 years ago. The Apostles instituted water/Spirit baptism and it has been the same ever since and no one has ever disputed it or tried to change it.

Sola scripturists like your self have been arguing over it for 500 years and nothing has been resolved and they will continue to squabble over it until Christ comes again. It is the nature of man.

Christ instituted spirit baptism. He had men water baptize disciples (men who were already saved)

But your to busy listening to men to hear this. Your no different than the catholics. Who twist Gods word and add their own words. You reject sola scriptura because your doctrines crash and burn with scripture alone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, I cant believe what I am hearing. Im really glad you're saying this. I agree 100%.

As for me being off topic, EG my post that YOU repsonded to was about repentance. So how can i be speaking of repentance, you come in and then start asking about HOW one is saved, i continue with repentance, and you say I am off topic.

Here man, let me do what you should be doing, going back and SHOWING you the topic YOU responded to.

You responed to post 3457
in which I was saying,


This is what the entire post YOU responded to was about. See DISOBEDIENCE OF A CHRISTIAN so im still speaking of the same topic with you, yet you will not admit YOUR the one purposely trying to stay off topic to avoid these questions.

Now once again, I PROVED to you who is off topic. PROVED to you my questions are valid, now will you be a man answer them?

You have yet to prove anything.

I said if you add works of any kind, type or number to the gospel.

You responded by talking how a person should act AFTER they are saved.

The gospel is my topic. you went way off base.

 

[feedm3]

Eternally, your now saying we are saved at the moment of belief, which i agree totally.

Yet you just told me if somone is living in sin they were never saved.

If we are saved at the moment of faith, then it would be only because of God's forknowlege in his knowing we were going to have works follow us.

If not having these works can cause us to never have been saved to being with, then God would know the moment we believed if our faith was real or not, which you also said true faith will have works.

You beleive God must determine if we are saved or not by the fact if we have a working future or not.

This is not Faith alone. This is faith and works (now or in the future) you believe they must be there.

This is completely wrong, if you believe then you are saved. Period. If you fall into sin, it's not a good thing, you will have bad results in life, but your faith will save you from hell. If you never repent, and live a life of sin, you are not going to enjoy all the blessings of God. However, you will see heaven thanks to his grace.

I will be posting a study on this soon, with scripture to support my views. I invite you to share in it. I will let you know when I post it

I said close to the exact same thing a while ago. Im warning you, logic is not important to him, everything your saying will go right out the window.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, You just did answer them here. SO we agree, one MUST repent in order to be/have been saved. Who cares if you say "never was" or "cannot be". That is not the point.

You right here are saying a person that is saved cannot live in sin, or he is NOT saved.

So then you teach repentance is a MUST even tho you believe the person was never saved or cannot be saved if he lives in SIn.

SO what in the world have you been trying to convince me of this entire time?

That "he was never saved"? Okay if that's you view, what do I care? The fundamental fact is that living in sin WILL NOT grant heaven.

So you do teach repentance is ESSENTIAL to salvation, otherwise it would have no effect of having never been saved.

So repentance is something God expects us to do as obedience. SO you do believe obedience is essential to salvation, because once again, YOU SAY ONE CANNOT LIVE IN SIN

How you say it is pointless to argue about, the consequence is the same for living in sin - Damnation

So this means YOU believe if you turned to a life of sin, you would have never been saved. Therefor you cannot do so, you must repent.

You did not respond to my questions.

I asked how those people could live in sin.

You replied by saying they can. yet refused to show how

 

[feedm3]

You know. Even those who claim to believe the samething as you are seeing through you now. Im done PROVING things to you. It's funny, the PROOF is in the quote in your post. Yet you just dont address and pretend it's not there. Sorry it's clearly not working on either thread.

Have fun trying to explain your condratictions to your fellow OSAS faith only brethren who are now calling you out.

You have enough on your plate just in the two threads your spewing this stuff on.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally, if you are saying a person MUST change his life in order to be saved, or as freedom says "have been saved" then you do believe in what your claiming you do not.

I am not saying this.

I believe a person CAN NOT change his life UNTIL he is saved.

Yes they may take one habit and replace it with another, and appear they have changed their life. But appearing, and actual change are not the same.

You said we cannot count on ourselves for salvation, but the finished work of Christ on the cross. Then you say if we do not make some change away from sin, (even though we believe - Jn 3:16) then we were never saved?

Your saying two things here. I now see what others are saying. Your saying nothing we can do will cause us to be saved, yet something we do not do can cause us to have never been saved.

This makes no sense. nor did I ever say this. so I am not sure what your trying to get at.

Well then we still are counting on ourselves because we have to make sure we complete this change you believe in.

Fact is you are both wrong. You both believe in works and you both do not fully trust in the completed work of the cross.

When one believes, he is saved. No matter what happens after that point, nothing can take away our salvation. Especially sin, because was defeated at Calvary.

You guys need stronger faith. That starts with not trusting in yourself to get to heaven.

Again, Not sure what your saying. nor am I saying what you claim I am saying, You must misunderstand me

I do not trust myself. if you actually read what I say you would see this.

 

[feedm3]

So so showing you the post you responded to, and pasting it in there, still isnt proof of topic??? Too immature for me. see ya

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why boast of a work when men will see it and glorify God in heaven?
.

Because God said not of works lest any man should boast.

Do you agree with God or not?

Why would you want to go around watching to see who is working for whatever reason
With regards to work.Some people Obey God, some don't and this is my good works and this is the truth it is either good or evil or are you lukewarm?
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Revelation 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

I am talking about HOW ONE IS SAVED. Not how a saved person should act.

Stick to the subject please.

 

[feedm3]

Wow, he nailed it! DUDE HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO TELL YOU YOUR NOT MAKING SENSE?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Coming from YOU, that's hilarious

From this post. I rest my case.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally, your now saying we are saved at the moment of belief, which i agree totally.

Yet you just told me if somone is living in sin they were never saved.

1. I never said this. John said this (for you are born of god and you can not sin)
2. I asked how a saved person could live in sin, so again, not sure what your trying to say.

If we are saved at the moment of faith, then it would be only because of God's forknowlege in his knowing we were going to have works follow us.

or is it because God knew our faith was real (not mere belief, which even demons have, yet tremble) the works just prove to OURSELVES our faith was real?

If not having these works can cause us to never have been saved to being with, then God would know the moment we believed if our faith was real or not, which you also said true faith will have works.

amen, I have been saying this all along. Yet God does not need us to not do any work or do work to KNOW our faith is real.. would you agree?

You beleive God must determine if we are saved or not by the fact if we have a working future or not.

No. I believe God saves us based on our faith. he chose us from the foundation of the world based on his foreknowledge of this said faith. Our work or lack of has nothing to do with our salvation. that is what these works based people are teaching, not me

This is not Faith alone. This is faith and works (now or in the future) you believe they must be there.

This is completely wrong, if you believe then you are saved. Period. If you fall into sin, it's not a good thing, you will have bad results in life, but your faith will save you from hell. If you never repent, and live a life of sin, you are not going to enjoy all the blessings of God. However, you will see heaven thanks to his grace.

I will be posting a study on this soon, with scripture to support my views. I invite you to share in it. I will let you know when I post it

You still do not understand what I believe. If you have a question ask it. try not to assume, your assuming all wrong.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I said close to the exact same thing a while ago. Im warning you, logic is not important to him, everything your saying will go right out the window.

rolls eyes.

They guy does not even understand what I am saying. Evidently you do not either. Or you would understand why when you supposedly said the same thing, You were wrong about my belief.

you people amaze me, Your listen for key words and think you know what people believe, because your church teaches you what we believe, when you (and they) have no idea what we believe, and continue to prove it by making such outlandish claims.