Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it seems he only stated what you implied is your belief. I have been reading through these posts. You said ask if I want to know something so I am asking.

1. How does God determine our faith is true or not at the point of belief? This is freeds question, yet it is a good one. Because if you dont know how, then how do you even know he does this in this manner at this point and time?

why do I need to know? why does he need to know? are we going to question God on what he determines? Does God know our heart before we even do anything (it is obvious he knew davids heart, as he called him a man after his own heart before he did one thing Before he probably even knew who goliath was. LONG before he started committing all those major sins he commited. Did God need David to prove he had true faith in him? Or did God already know?

Scripture states we were chosen to be his sons before time even began based on the foreknowledge of God and chosen to be his sons. Again how could God do this, if he did not already know our faith?

freedoms question is not valid. He is fishing, to try to attack. He does not want to know truth. He wants to prove (to himself) he is right. And he is failing miserably.

2. You said a Christian cannot live in sin based on John's writing, does this mean we cant sin, or we can but it does not count as sin anymore. (I was sent a link to the other thread your on, so ill be asking questions based off that as well)
Because I believe a Christian can sin, we all sin, no one is perfect. We should try not to, but if we do, we are not in danger of hell. is this what you interpret from John's statement, or do you mean, we cant sin, as in our bodies (or whatever) will not allow us to, like sin has become impossible?

1 John 2:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.


[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will[SUP][e][/SUP] abide in Him.

1 John 3:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Sin in this passage is present active, it is called "LIVING IN SIN" It says anyone who has done this has neither seen him, nor known him. I do not know how more plain it can be. that a person who is living in sin has never known God (they may know of him, but they have never personally known him in a personal relationship. as his children do) But john does not just leave us here.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

These are johns words, inspired by God. Not mine. I may not be able to explain them completely. But that does not matter, What john said is factual and true, and words of God. if not. Our bible is flawed.

3. So are you saying, someone who has confessed Christ, believes he died for their sins, yet does not repent, was never really saved in the first place?

I am saying if one has not truly repented, they can not have any faith.

repentance to life is a huge topic. if you would like to discuss this we can. It is NOT just about sin, it is about ourselves. (as an example. the pharisees were considered the most righteous people on earth according to the law. They did it for their love of God. But they had yet to repent, why is this? )

I will stop there. Please provide straight answer as I am only trying to better grasp what you're saying, before I draw a conclusion if we agree or not.

Feel free to ask me anything concerning my views, I will be happy to answer.

thanks for this. this is the only way we can learn. lets stick here for now. and do a little at a time,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So obviously you're not really done speaking with me. Lets start from the top.

You believe one is saved by faith only and no works - I know this.

Good for you

You believe one is saved will have works that follow - I know this.

Good for you, True faith produces true work.

You believe one must show a changed life or he was never really saved to begin with - this is where you flip flop

Then you go off the deep end. And twist what I really said.

A child of god WILL show a changed life. there is no must in it. How can a person given the power of God. Be adopted as his child. and given the spirit in his heart to teach him all things not show a changed life?

Yet once again you twist what I believe, So yet once again, I must ask you. How cna you live with yourself bearing false witness against someone as much as you do.

And PS. why have you still not answered my question about how that person COULD live in sin??

You also believe that salvation has nothing to do with obedience - this contradicts the above statment.

well since your statement was false. Based on a false precept. and not even close to the truth. it is only a contradiction based on your continued refusal to understand what I believe and continued twisting of the facts.

 

[homwardbound]

What I am saying in this thread is no works = no salvation.

After 1000's of posts I have yet to see one post showing one obtaining salvation and maintaining salvation without ever doing any obedient works or good works.

And I am saying what type of works, yours or God's? And you have said yours, we disagree, yet from God, thank Christ we are by Faith in god saved by Christ.
If Christ never came and did what Christ did, or was not resurrected would salvation be possible with works then?

 

[homwardbound]

If Christ did not die, salvation would not be possible. But Christ did die on the cross for every man, Heb 2:9 yet every man will not be saved for every man will not obey, Heb 5:9. So obedience to Christ does save for Christ did die.

Seabass, is he risen Christ. Is Christ alive?

 

[homwardbound]

Read Mk 2:1-5 how the men worked to remove part of the roof of the house Jesus was in and lowered the sick man down to Jesus and verse 5 says "Jesus saw their faith". The physical work these men did that Jesus saw is called faith.

Exactly, one 's works are from Faith (belief), if there is no beleive, (no Faith) then there would be no works
If there are works and no Faith is one saved, even if oinbe says they beleive?

Works, true one's always follow Faith. It is not works that produce Faith, that leads to pride and arrogance. boastfulness and pride

Faith from Father given to me, you and all that beleive, do works automatically of Love God's type of Love to others, through the ones that believe
That is the new life stress free, in trust to Father's lead as Christ showed us, during his walk on earth

 

[homwardbound]

God works in those that obey Him and continues to work in those that continue to obey Him.

By Faith in him, God the Father reveals truth, and one is set free in the new life given them by the resurrected Christ, And the works of Father are shown in love to all, through the mature believer, not claiming to be mature, or perfect, only God the Father is and is the one that reveals this truth, so I make no Judgment except to follow Christ in dependence on Father through the Holy Spirit of truth
[h=3]Hebrews 5:12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


[h=3]Hebrews 5:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe
Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.


As it states, if god permits, so I am glad you are so strong, and I am weak for I know this next verse is also true:

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

And I hope to stand as you are doing so well, in telling me how to stand, thank you, for sharing your strength
No fight here from me.

 

[homwardbound]

Eph 1:13 the church at Ephesus was "sealed" by some 25-30 years later they became unsealed, Rev 2;1-7.

Nothing says seals cannot be broken. The Greek word for sealed in Eph 1:13 is sphragizō as used in Mt 27:66. Was the seal sphragizō in Mt 27:66 broken?

?, God breaks seals?

 

[homwardbound]

Yes it is God that decides, and he has told us his deciding factors so that we can make righteous judgement, of our own actions and of yes others around us.

I wouldn't tell anyone you're going to hell. Yet are we not to preach, is it okay to say "the bible says"? Are we not to teach the truth in love?

Paul work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It does not mean we each have a different means of being saved, he told them that telling them he would not be there to guide them forever. no what mean?

Next verse

[h=3]Philippians 2:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So it is God to put total trust in right? not self right?

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

[h=3]Hebrews 2:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

I will, that I consider dead to flesh will do what God wills in me to do as Christ did, therefore I do not see the work done through me as mine rather as Father's
Just me, and whatever others decide is on them not me. I am not judged of others, nor do I even judge me, I am in complete trust to Father through Son and am stress free today
Thank you for all your insight as well

 

[homwardbound]

There will be a never ending struggle by faith only advocates in trying to find a way in how one can obtain salvation and maintain that salvation without ever doing works.

Works, again needs a separation: What works? Spirit of God or natural man's (flesh)

 

[damombomb]

When we forget it was his grace that saved us, it is pride. Paul is a good example of grace. The one that works one hour
can receive the same pay as the one that worked all day. It is God's love, grace and favor.

 

[homwardbound]

Fight the good fight of faith

Faith in what? Faith has to have an object like swallowing is the mechanism to swallow food to live physically
Faith is this mechanism that one can live or die
Just like swallowing if one swallows poison they die
So Faith as like swallowing has to have an object to live, and Christ is that object
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And so if I swallow I have to work to keep my salvation and do not work willingly then my Faith is void and am working to keep it, when I fail in this, I am stressed out, worried and not free, when the truth is to set us free right?
So if I am in bondage over this work you are promoting to do or else, then i am not free am i?
Yet the truth is to set one free is it not?

 

[newbirth]

Works, again needs a separation: What works? Spirit of God or natural man's (flesh)

lets ask Christ himself...
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[VCO]

I am speaking of obedience, not good deeds. Obedience is our duty - Luke 17:10.

If we do not obey, then we are not saved. Heb 10:25-f. Gal 5:1-f., Mat 24:40-f.

Look up those 3 passages and tell me how any of these could be saved without obedience, solely on faith?

If disobedience can keep us from being saved, then it is essential to salvation.

if you believe that disobedience cannot keep us from being saved, then you are about to have a mountain of passages to deal with. Of course you dont have to, but the honest thing would be to do exactly that - deal with them

Now let show you where you went slightly off center.

Obedience involves good deeds.

Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

"We should walk in them", is that not a command that we are to obey.

Titus 3:14 (ASV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And let our people also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

And again.

Matthew 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

And again, etc.

So tell me again how you separate obedience and good works?

It is how we LOVE GOD back for having SAVED US.

OBEDIENCE is not DUTY, but rather HOW WE ARE TO LOVE GOD.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keepMy commands.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


Mark 12:30-31 (HCSB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other command greater than these.”

Obedience out LOVE for GOD, is one of the things that genuine SALVATION produces. Obedience does not produce Salvation.

 

[feedm3]

So tell me again how you separate obedience and good works?

Well, a Good deed, is liek benevlonce, helping others, things that glorify God for others to see. This is something that we get better at as we grow as Christians.

OBEDIENCE is not DUTY, but rather HOW WE ARE TO LOVE GOD.

Well then loving God is our duty. Which I agree, our duty is to fear him and keep his commands.

Ecc 12:13 " let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, fear God and keep his commands for this is whole duty of man".

And the Lord said himself that obedience is our duty:
Luk 17:10 Even so ye also, when ye shall have done all the things that are commanded (<--obedience) you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which it was our duty to do.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keepMy commands.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


Mark 12:30-31 (HCSB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other command greater than these.”

These are great passages, but if anything, along with the other passages I have posted, they show our duty is to love God, which we show by keeping his commands.

It's not that I separate obedience and good works, its that I am trying to make the point to OSAS and faith only advocates, that obedience is not a good work as in a good deed, it's a duty that we must carry out.

Because of how many people say it's earning salvation. No its not, just as my children are not trying to earn anything when I tell them they must do something.

Many make it sound as if were teaching you better go out and do a bunch of good deeds so you can buy heaven.

The fact is, one can still do good deeds and be disobedient. I can help others and be and do good things as an atheist. Yet those good works count for nothing, without the belief and obedience to God.

Get what I mean?

 

[VCO]

Well, a Good deed, is liek benevlonce, helping others, things that glorify God for others to see. This is something that we get better at as we grow as Christians.



Well then loving God is our duty. Which I agree, our duty is to fear him and keep his commands.

Ecc 12:13 " let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, fear God and keep his commands for this is whole duty of man".

And the Lord said himself that obedience is our duty:
Luk 17:10 Even so ye also, when ye shall have done all the things that are commanded (<--obedience) you, say, We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which it was our duty to do.



These are great passages, but if anything, along with the other passages I have posted, they show our duty is to love God, which we show by keeping his commands.

It's not that I separate obedience and good works, its that I am trying to make the point to OSAS and faith only advocates, that obedience is not a good work as in a good deed, it's a duty that we must carry out.

Because of how many people say it's earning salvation. No its not, just as my children are not trying to earn anything when I tell them they must do something.

Many make it sound as if were teaching you better go out and do a bunch of good deeds so you can buy heaven.

The fact is, one can still do good deeds and be disobedient. I can help others and be and do good things as an atheist. Yet those good works count for nothing, without the belief and obedience to God.

Get what I mean?

NO, I do not get what you mean. Your way of reasoning sounds foreign to me. Let me try to explain why.

First of all, I do not believe that "good deeds" are good, in GOD's EYES if you do not LOVE HIM.

AND a willful disobedient lifestyle is the OPPOSITE of Loving GOD.

Plus I find willingly LOVING GOD and manifesting it by loving obedience, to be inseparable from good works, because it is WHY HE saved us by HIS GRACE. (Grace is receiving what we do not deserve, and cannot earn.)

WHY? Primarily because of this portion of Scripture.


Matthew 25:31-46 (HCSB)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
[SUP]36 [/SUP] I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you took care of Me; I was in prison and you visited Me.’
[SUP]37 [/SUP] “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP] When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You?
[SUP]39 [/SUP] When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’
[SUP]40 [/SUP] “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!
[SUP]42 [/SUP] For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] I was a stranger and you didn’t take Me in; I was naked and you didn’t clothe Me, sick and in prison and you didn’t take care of Me.’
[SUP]44 [/SUP] “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’
[SUP]45 [/SUP] “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
[SUP]46 [/SUP] “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


I also find it STRANGE to refer LOVING GOD as "my Duty" as if it was something I had to pay for.

It was my DUTY to serve my Country during the Vietnam Era, and I proudly did so for 4 years in the U.S. Air Force.
But how can I equate that to LOVING GOD, which is my joy and privilege?

I LOVE MY WIFE, not because it is my Duty, but purely because I am in LOVE WITH HER.

Am I not supposed to LOVE GOD MORE than her?

I LOVE HIM because HE loved me first; while I was still an enemy of GOD, walking in sin.

My wife is handicapped, do I help her because it is my DUTY, or because I LOVE HER? Do you see the difference?

My relationship with Jesus Christ is a very real and personal LOVE relationship, and I submit to Him because I LOVE HIM, not because it is my Duty.

And by the way, I LOVE the LORD more than my WIFE, and I KNOW she LOVES the LORD more than ME. BUT OUR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER IS SECOND ONLY TO THE LOVE WE HAVE FOR THE LORD OUR GOD.

 

[homwardbound]

lets ask Christ himself...
[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So what are these types of works? As asked? even though we are in the flesh are we of the flesh anymore in Christ?
Or are these verses below not true:

• John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
  
  Acts 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
  
  Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
  
  For now I as Paul am doing this as Paul:
  
  1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
  
  So Brother please build yet be careful to how you build, why Because no flesh pleases God we are today to consider ourselves dead to flesh nature and alive in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ
  2 Corinthians 10:2 but I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
  Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
  
  Good works are needed, but not of one's flesh nature, known as the carnal nature and in the carnal nature we are just babes, and need maturity as is stated in Hebrews 5:11-6:6
  
  And I am not trying to say I am better or more mature than you or anyone, just putting out what I have been taught, to all those with ears to here what the Spirit says
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[newbirth]

So what are these types of works? As asked? even though we are in the flesh are we of the flesh anymore in Christ?
Or are these verses below not true:

• John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
  
  Acts 17:28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
  
  Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
  
  For now I as Paul am doing this as Paul:
  
  1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
  
  So Brother please build yet be careful to how you build, why Because no flesh pleases God we are today to consider ourselves dead to flesh nature and alive in Spirit and truth by the resurrected Christ
  2 Corinthians 10:2 but I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
  Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
  
  Good works are needed, but not of one's flesh nature, known as the carnal nature and in the carnal nature we are just babes, and need maturity as is stated in Hebrews 5:11-6:6
  
  And I am not trying to say I am better or more mature than you or anyone, just putting out what I have been taught, to all those with ears to here what the Spirit says

Taught by whom?
So while we are in this body we don't do anything. Sometimes I wonder if people don't read the bible. Pretenders don't love the brethren who they can see so how can they love God who they cannot see.God says do good to all men. Some say it is the flesh so it is sin. People say that to rob you of your blessings friend
Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[VCO]

Taught by whom?
So while we are in this body we don't do anything. Sometimes I wonder if people don't read the bible. Pretenders don't love the brethren who they can see so how can they love God who they cannot see.God says do good to all men. Some say it is the flesh so it is sin. People say that to rob you of your blessings friend
Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

You don't really read our posts, do you?

Galatians 1:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

Romans 7:14-25 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 3:10-12 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

 

[homwardbound]

Taught by whom?
So while we are in this body we don't do anything. Sometimes I wonder if people don't read the bible. Pretenders don't love the brethren who they can see so how can they love God who they cannot see.God says do good to all men. Some say it is the flesh so it is sin. People say that to rob you of your blessings friend
Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

In a nutshell, Brother in a nutshell, and love to you for your zeal to be what God wants you to be, love that, please see deeper; As I see I already have a lot of "I"'s that will burn up, because my Eye "I" gets in the way and wants credit, which having to do work in from the nature of ours in the flesh it, we desire the credit, and all flesh works for credit will burn up, and all God works that work through by God through us will remain unscathed.
Hope you now see what is trying to be shown: the difference in self works of flesh nature and wanting to be noticed verses listening and doing as led without caring about rewards, when one has already got the best one could ever get and tha tis new life that lives forever, even after shedding this body

[h=3]1 Corinthians 3[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

3 Dear brothers, I have been talking to you as though you were still just babies in the Christian life who are not following the Lord but your own desires; I cannot talk to you as I would to healthy Christians who are filled with the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I have had to feed you with milk and not with solid food because you couldn’t digest anything stronger. And even now you still have to be fed on milk. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For you are still only baby Christians, controlled by your own desires, not God’s. When you are jealous of one another and divide up into quarreling groups, doesn’t that prove you are still babies, wanting your own way? In fact, you are acting like people who don’t belong to the Lord at all. [SUP]4 [/SUP]There you are, quarreling about whether I am greater than Apollos, and dividing the church. Doesn’t this show how little you have grown in the Lord?[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who am I, and who is Apollos, that we should be the cause of a quarrel? Why, we’re just God’s servants, each of us with certain special abilities, and with our help you believed. [SUP]6 [/SUP]My work was to plant the seed in your hearts, and Apollos’ work was to water it, but it was God, not we, who made the garden grow in your hearts. [SUP]7[/SUP]The person who does the planting or watering isn’t very important, but God is important because he is the one who makes things grow. [SUP]8[/SUP]Apollos and I are working as a team, with the same aim, though each of us will be rewarded for his own hard work. [SUP]9 [/SUP]We are only God’s coworkers. You are God’s garden, not ours; you are God’s building, not ours.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]God, in his kindness, has taught me how to be an expert builder. I have laid the foundation and Apollos has built on it. But he who builds on the foundation must be very careful. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And no one can ever lay any other real foundation than that one we already have—Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But there are various kinds of materials that can be used to build on that foundation. Some use gold and silver and jewels; and some build with sticks and hay or even straw! [SUP]13 [/SUP]There is going to come a time of testing at Christ’s Judgment Day to see what kind of material each builder has used. Everyone’s work will be put through the fire so that all can see whether or not it keeps its value, and what was really accomplished. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then every workman who has built on the foundation with the right materials, and whose work still stands, will get his pay. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if the house he has built burns up, he will have a great loss. He himself will be saved, but like a man escaping through a wall of flames.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Don’t you realize that all of you together are the house of God, and that the Spirit of God lives among you in his house? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone defiles and spoils God’s home, God will destroy him. For God’s home is holy and clean, and you are that home.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Stop fooling yourselves. If you count yourself above average in intelligence, as judged by this world’s standards, you had better put this all aside and be a fool rather than let it hold you back from the true wisdom from above. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As it says in the book of Job, God uses man’s own brilliance to trap him; he stumbles over his own “wisdom” and falls. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And again, in the book of Psalms, we are told that the Lord knows full well how the human mind reasons and how foolish and futile it is.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]So don’t be proud of following the wise men of this world.[SUP][b][/SUP] For God has already given you everything you need. [SUP]22 [/SUP]He has given you Paul and Apollos and Peter as your helpers. He has given you the whole world to use, and life and even death are your servants. He has given you all of the present and all of the future. All are yours, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and you belong to Christ, and Christ is God’s.


God just love you, start in thanksgiving and praise from the foundation he died for you, He is already now presently risen for you, completing waht he came to do, that is new life in Spirit and truth

 

[homwardbound]

Taught by whom?
So while we are in this body we don't do anything. Sometimes I wonder if people don't read the bible. Pretenders don't love the brethren who they can see so how can they love God who they cannot see.God says do good to all men. Some say it is the flesh so it is sin. People say that to rob you of your blessings friend
Galatians 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

God himself personally, the same as Saul was, before Paul, and is for all who beleive God, I am not exclusive, I am nothing more that God's vessel for god to use me as God sees fit.
And God just love you the same as me and all the people in this world