Being a Christian and desiring wealth

[LightningClap0002]

I just remembered a couple of verses that I think answer this question far better than everything I've presented so far.

Ecclesiastes 1-2 which says:
I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards...I amassed silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and provinces...I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.

... My heart took delight in all my labor,and this was the reward for all my toil.

Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had doneand what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;nothing was gained under the sun.

... So I hated life, because the work that is done under the sun was grievous to me. All of it is meaningless, a chasing after the wind... To the person who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

To get the point across, I have removed some chunks, please feel free to read the verses in their entirety, and I think you will find that I have not twisted them.

Make God happy by obeying Him, and following His will instead of your own, and He will give generously.

Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Matthew 6:25-26

 

[Johnnxroxx]

To answer your question: I think it's about your motivations, rather than the how much wealth you have. Do you make millions of dollars off the backs of children feeding their families working in the coal mines? Then, that's bad. But if you're making a good living doing something good, or even neutral, I don't see why Christians would have a problem with you profiting. Even the Bible talks about the importance of good investment decisions. The problem is, and it is a problem, that money can consume you, I know people who work 80 hours a week, forego relationships, step on people, just to make that little bit of extra cash. And it isn't even the cash that's the real problem, it's power lust, and the more power you have, the more you want it, this is almost universal.

 

[acesneverwin]

Deleted the message.

 

[Funrider]

Well, here we are.

Took time to read everyone's posts. What comes to mind...is 1 Corinthians 13:

13 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body [a]to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrongsuffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 [b]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.


8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c]prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror [e]dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the [f]greatest of these is love.

I'm gonna make a seperate post on 1 Corinthians 13, because LOVE is something I do NOT have for God, but am trying to learn, for my sake, and the sake of those in the future (my future wife, future kids, future business team & associates, future people I'll never meet, but who will benefit from those I help to succeed).

Love, it seems, is a very important aspect in here, and in a relationship with God. I'll look into it more.

On surrendering my will to God...it seems like no matter how much I surrender, it's never enough. Apparently, he wants ALL of me, but I dont know how to give him 'everything'. What does he want from me, exactly? Is it full submission? Is it my dreams and hopes? Is it my Honda Civic? What does God want from me, so that we can work together to make something happen, and save hundreds of thousands, if not, millions?

Some of you say that you surrendered all to God, and received blessings. What is this 'all' we're talkin bout? Do I have to give up possessions? Which ones? Is it habits? Thoughts? Food? What is 'all'?

Part of that seems to be...to place the Kingdom of God first, before all else, and that all shall be added upon me. WHAT IS "Kingdom of God" first? I've been trying to do that for YEARS. YEARS. Nothing. Not even coming close. What is this 'kingdom'. Some have said 'It's the eternal life'. Some said 'It's eternal life when you go on to Heaven'. Some say you receive it when you live. Some say it's what you get when you die. How would YOU know what WE get when we die? What makes YOU so sure. If it's also, HERE ON EARTH, that an inheritance is possible, how does one gain it.


Look, point being: I will NOT LIVE IN POVERTY for the sake of God. I refuse to live broke, destitute, and suffering to live for a God that CAN, and HAS THE POWER TO, fix everything wrong in the world, but refuses to use it. I want to provide for a family and children, where I can homeschool them in a safe, comfortable environment, raise them, with my wife, free of time obligation to an underpaying career, and free to raise them in a Christ-centered household, where they learn what is RIGHT in life, instead of all that is wrong.

...is that so much to ask? I'm sure God both saw and heard me type the above. What's wrong with wanting the best for, NOT ONLY your family, and NOT ONLY your associates, and NOT ONLY for those you've never met before...but ALSO to provide for those NOT EVEN BORN YET.

Is it really that much to ask God to do so?

 

[ronnie2796]

The question you ask, about "What is this 'all'?" It is whatever you love more than God. Love is a choice and a commitment, not just a feeling.
In your case it seems to be your success. It really feels like God is tugging at your heart about this, because you're continually choosing this over him.
The thing, is that God will take care of you. And those around you, and those unmet, and those unborn. WITHOUT YOUR HELP. He's God, he's more than capable of taking care of this on his own, and He says that he will.
Like I have posted before,
Matthew 6:25-34 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

So, your justification for your desire for wealth is invalid. You don't NEED to be wealthy. You just want to be.
So, why won't you surrender what you clearly need to surrender. You're asking questions that you already know the answers to, looking for someone to tell you its okay. Its not. You Must put God first! Everything else is secondary. And you know that, but you're being stubborn.

 

[jjtj22]

Funrider

You have the same choice every person that has ever lived has. To live for Christ or not.

Almost every person on cc has chosen Christ and there are thousands of testimonies on here about His goodness, freedom and love. But you yourself must make your own choice.

You also have a very skewed view of God and even though I know you are questioning God right now, your anger and disgust with God is insulting and infuriating to me. At best you ascribe my Holy God with indifference, at worst you are saying all the world's evils come from Him.

I think your first course of action would be to reevaluate yourself and see just how much sin is in you. Jesus didn't pay a little bit for your sin He payed massively because all the indifference and all manner of the world's evils are found within you. Your posts seem to indicate the worthy one is you! I pray God untangles your warped view.

To set the record straight; God is loving, holy and just, worthy of all praise, beautiful beyond compare! Who am I that my King should be mindful of me?!


Did you read Psalm 73? Now go read Psalm 34. Or don't like I said you have to make your own choice.

 

[RickyZ]

This world is at odds with God's plans. The riches God speaks of come in the next life. Now, you can bank up here or you can bank up there, but keep in mind the riches you bank in this world will fail, while the riches you bank up there are eternal. No matter how much things suck in this world, they are but a fleeting moment when compared to the next. It's hard to see that right now, but it's true.

Work on storing up riches in heaven. You'll find that when that is your priority, then a little of that will seep into this world. But as long as you beat your brains out to store up riches in this world, you will be disappointed.

 

[Funrider]

Placed to rest. I've decided that submitting to God, and giving EVERYTHING up to him will bring me more than I even am aware of.

End.

 

[ronnie2796]

Placed to rest. I've decided that submitting to God, and giving EVERYTHING up to him will bring me more than I even am aware of.

End.

Funrider, what do you mean by this?

 

[Callmebadger]

Your opportunism bothers me, frankly. All belongs to God, who created it, and by his grace has been given to us; so it shall return to him. The riches you seek I can assure you are hollow, and will only lead to your own demise.

I had the misfortune of being born into a wealthy family. It has caused many problems internally. My siblings bicker between themselves, and my grandparents won't even speak to my father who, like you, aspired to fulfill his own ambitions and succeeded in that respect.

He doesn't go to church, and ridicules me for doing so. Among all of his fancy cars, he is friendless and poor in the eyes of God. He bought me a 2013 Jeep Wrangler for my 16th birthday and I insisted that he take it back. I would rather walk the 2 miles to school. Despite this, I'm still despised by my neighbors, who don't even know me, because of it.

"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." Ecclesiastes 5:10


"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Luke 16:13

Once upon a time there was a church with quite a drastic discrepancy between rich and poor. In the weekly tithe, a wealthy, successful man went up on stage and handed the pastor a check for many thousands of dollars. He was congratulated greatly and witnessed by many to have done good. Unfortunately, his heart was not on God.

Un-noticed, an impoverished, elderly woman slipped through the door. Unseen, she went up to the alter after the sermon and slipped an envelope with her last penny onto the stage. This meagerly penny, everything the poor lady owned, pleased God more than the selfish man who had given not even a fraction of what he owned.

I could tell you more stories, but instead I'll just tell you this: I hope that through prayer, you'll see that God blesses those whom give their all to furthering his Königreich here on Earth. He does indeed keep his promises, and if you think that being a Christ-follower is a cakewalk, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[llc84]

I've been trying to find the words to say what I feel, and then I read this. This is it. This is exactly how I feel. Mine isn't about money and wealth (it's wanting a husband), but this is just spot on. I have nothing to contribute to this post, but I do want you to know you're not alone.

Well, here we are.

Took time to read everyone's posts. What comes to mind...is 1 Corinthians 13:



I'm gonna make a seperate post on 1 Corinthians 13, because LOVE is something I do NOT have for God, but am trying to learn, for my sake, and the sake of those in the future (my future wife, future kids, future business team & associates, future people I'll never meet, but who will benefit from those I help to succeed).

Love, it seems, is a very important aspect in here, and in a relationship with God. I'll look into it more.

On surrendering my will to God...it seems like no matter how much I surrender, it's never enough. Apparently, he wants ALL of me, but I dont know how to give him 'everything'. What does he want from me, exactly? Is it full submission? Is it my dreams and hopes? Is it my Honda Civic? What does God want from me, so that we can work together to make something happen, and save hundreds of thousands, if not, millions?

Some of you say that you surrendered all to God, and received blessings. What is this 'all' we're talkin bout? Do I have to give up possessions? Which ones? Is it habits? Thoughts? Food? What is 'all'?

Part of that seems to be...to place the Kingdom of God first, before all else, and that all shall be added upon me. WHAT IS "Kingdom of God" first? I've been trying to do that for YEARS. YEARS. Nothing. Not even coming close. What is this 'kingdom'. Some have said 'It's the eternal life'. Some said 'It's eternal life when you go on to Heaven'. Some say you receive it when you live. Some say it's what you get when you die. How would YOU know what WE get when we die? What makes YOU so sure. If it's also, HERE ON EARTH, that an inheritance is possible, how does one gain it.


Look, point being: I will NOT LIVE IN POVERTY for the sake of God. I refuse to live broke, destitute, and suffering to live for a God that CAN, and HAS THE POWER TO, fix everything wrong in the world, but refuses to use it. I want to provide for a family and children, where I can homeschool them in a safe, comfortable environment, raise them, with my wife, free of time obligation to an underpaying career, and free to raise them in a Christ-centered household, where they learn what is RIGHT in life, instead of all that is wrong.

...is that so much to ask? I'm sure God both saw and heard me type the above. What's wrong with wanting the best for, NOT ONLY your family, and NOT ONLY your associates, and NOT ONLY for those you've never met before...but ALSO to provide for those NOT EVEN BORN YET.

Is it really that much to ask God to do so?

 

[RickyZ]

Your opportunism bothers me, frankly. All belongs to God, who created it, and by his grace has been given to us; so it shall return to him. The riches you seek I can assure you are hollow, and will only lead to your own demise.

I had the misfortune of being born into a wealthy family. It has caused many problems internally. My siblings bicker between themselves, and my grandparents won't even speak to my father who, like you, aspired to fulfill his own ambitions and succeeded in that respect.

He doesn't go to church, and ridicules me for doing so. Among all of his fancy cars, he is friendless and poor in the eyes of God. He bought me a 2013 Jeep Wrangler for my 16th birthday and I insisted that he take it back. I would rather walk the 2 miles to school. Despite this, I'm still despised by my neighbors, who don't even know me, because of it.

"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." Ecclesiastes 5:10


"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Luke 16:13

Once upon a time there was a church with quite a drastic discrepancy between rich and poor. In the weekly tithe, a wealthy, successful man went up on stage and handed the pastor a check for many thousands of dollars. He was congratulated greatly and witnessed by many to have done good. Unfortunately, his heart was not on God.

Un-noticed, an impoverished, elderly woman slipped through the door. Unseen, she went up to the alter after the sermon and slipped an envelope with her last penny onto the stage. This meagerly penny, everything the poor lady owned, pleased God more than the selfish man who had given not even a fraction of what he owned.

I could tell you more stories, but instead I'll just tell you this: I hope that through prayer, you'll see that God blesses those whom give their all to furthering his Königreich here on Earth. He does indeed keep his promises, and if you think that being a Christ-follower is a cakewalk, you're sadly mistaken.

One of my wife's brother in law is filthy rich, with all the trimmings, and he's not a happy guy. Oh he puts on his faces but when it comes down to it sans money, no. Empty as they can be. Wouldn't wanna be ya.

That you come from that background, and have not only seen but exposed it as a fraud, is remarkable. God bless you a hundred fold for submitting to His wisdom. That will not be forgotten. Amen

 

[jos]

it is true that being rich gives less hope on being happy. but that isn't always the case. you just have to find a way to handle the amount of money, and don't make it the most important thing. the positive thing about being rich is that you can do many good things with your fortune. for exemple: bill gates has pumped millions and millions of dollars in research against polio and vacines. or you can randomly donate money to people in need, like Johnny Depp does often. the good thing is not that you have much money, but what you can do with it to help people.

my dream is being rich but nobody knows that. i would live in a little flat and dress myself with my favourite cheap clothes. then i would just do all day what i like to do. and when i see someone who needs something, i would give them more than what they need. and if i see someone lonely, i would invite him in my small flat and eat some pizza with him and talk about random stuff. and if i would ever like to marry, i would do it in my backyard, with only some close family and friend. that would be true happiness for me. then my life would be complete.

 

[Funrider]

Fair responses.

ronnie: Exactly what I said. I have decided to give any desire of my own to be wealthy and succeed to God. WANTING...only brought me stress. I've decided to surrender my will and interests to the will of God.

(No, I didn't mean 'end it'. I could see how THAT was interpreted. I assure you, I love life, and the LORD).

Callmebadger: I can appreciate your perspective. In fact, it's the first I've heard of someone from wealth finding struggle in it. I come from nothing, so on that end, being without...is bad. I can see how LOTS of money can divide a family, but so can NO money whatsoever. Thanks for sharing, though. It gives a perspective that I've never seen before.

llc84: I can see where you come from as well. Since I also have a splinter in my eye, I cant really say anything of forward movement, but talk to someone here. Find a man who's a man. God provides.


In the end, wealth is wealth, but I'll give my desire to God, and find happiness NOW.

 

[ronnie2796]

Fair responses.

ronnie: Exactly what I said. I have decided to give any desire of my own to be wealthy and succeed to God. WANTING...only brought me stress. I've decided to surrender my will and interests to the will of God.

(No, I didn't mean 'end it'. I could see how THAT was interpreted. I assure you, I love life, and the LORD).

Callmebadger: I can appreciate your perspective. In fact, it's the first I've heard of someone from wealth finding struggle in it. I come from nothing, so on that end, being without...is bad. I can see how LOTS of money can divide a family, but so can NO money whatsoever. Thanks for sharing, though. It gives a perspective that I've never seen before.

llc84: I can see where you come from as well. Since I also have a splinter in my eye, I cant really say anything of forward movement, but talk to someone here. Find a man who's a man. God provides.


In the end, wealth is wealth, but I'll give my desire to God, and find happiness NOW.

Yay!! I'm so happy for you!!
Congrats brother

Its hard not to pick things back up again, remember that, but its worth it Still praying for you

 

[jos]

I hope you will find happiness Funrider.
Because that is what every human searches during his whole life.

 

[penknight]

Your opportunism bothers me, frankly. All belongs to God, who created it, and by his grace has been given to us; so it shall return to him. The riches you seek I can assure you are hollow, and will only lead to your own demise.

I had the misfortune of being born into a wealthy family. It has caused many problems internally. My siblings bicker between themselves, and my grandparents won't even speak to my father who, like you, aspired to fulfill his own ambitions and succeeded in that respect.

He doesn't go to church, and ridicules me for doing so. Among all of his fancy cars, he is friendless and poor in the eyes of God. He bought me a 2013 Jeep Wrangler for my 16th birthday and I insisted that he take it back. I would rather walk the 2 miles to school. Despite this, I'm still despised by my neighbors, who don't even know me, because of it.

"Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless." Ecclesiastes 5:10


"No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Luke 16:13

Once upon a time there was a church with quite a drastic discrepancy between rich and poor. In the weekly tithe, a wealthy, successful man went up on stage and handed the pastor a check for many thousands of dollars. He was congratulated greatly and witnessed by many to have done good. Unfortunately, his heart was not on God.

Un-noticed, an impoverished, elderly woman slipped through the door. Unseen, she went up to the alter after the sermon and slipped an envelope with her last penny onto the stage. This meagerly penny, everything the poor lady owned, pleased God more than the selfish man who had given not even a fraction of what he owned.

I could tell you more stories, but instead I'll just tell you this: I hope that through prayer, you'll see that God blesses those whom give their all to furthering his Königreich here on Earth. He does indeed keep his promises, and if you think that being a Christ-follower is a cakewalk, you're sadly mistaken.

Right, no one said it would be easy.
Jesus said that it is hard for a rich man to enter God's kingdom.
What sense does it make to live with more than what you need?

 

[Ariel82]

ronnie: Exactly what I said. I have decided to give any desire of my own to be wealthy and succeed to God. WANTING...only brought me stress. I've decided to surrender my will and interests to the will of God.

(No, I didn't mean 'end it'. I could see how THAT was interpreted. I assure you, I love life, and the LORD).

sometimes we have to yell and kick up a sandstorm, before we see the light.

I'm glad you have given it to the Lord and will pray that He will show you what true wealth is.

may you have an abundance of joy, laughter and love.

 

[jandian]

Hi Funrider, I absolutely love your honesty. And your request is so legitimate.
Absolutely nothing is wrong with having wealth.
But...having said that....I must say that the more your pursue Christ, the less relevance riches would have in your life. You are right to a point Christianity is not about having a good time; its about choosing the TRUTH which is Christ.....whether it seems like fun or not. Because eyes have not seen nor the ears heard nor can the mind know the things that God has for those who love HIM. Thats why he advises that we do not set our hear on things or the earth but on the things of heaven for they are eternal. Love not this life even unto death. It could be challenging, but its only for a short while, at least compared to eternity.....


Seek after the LORD with all your heart hun, and the things of the world will drift into the background.

 

[secularhermit]

Oh! oh!

This old man always wanted money. My friends and ALL I knew wnated the same (+ additional benefit$).

I have heard and read about Prosperity doctrines and the likes. Do you know why I wanted the money? to buy and do everything I wanted, to be a god without GOD (to please the self instead of the ONE who deserves all my attention).

I have learned to live as poor. Considering the good I have I´m not poorer than others, though I have only on pair of shoes and I knew why many woman and men are not happy enough: Lack of money and the "magic" it gives when we have enough to buy all the capice we could afford (leaving GOD behind).

I´m glad I´m poor. I´m happy those who loved me loved me for being the one I am, not for the wealth I could have shared or wasted. Money is an interesting addiction I had and today, when I spent 4 hours in a line to buy food (from the goverment programs) I heard many talking about their ideas, their problems and I perceived how these think the gov have to take care of their complete body, as if it weren´t their obligation to built their own shelter or house, because they see the state as their DAD or grandparent.

If I were rich I would feel disappointing knowing I bought frienship, love, and everything that could be sold, cheap or expensively.

Ihave seen how many want to own the wealth Joseph or Jacobs had. i have seen how pastor delay to pay their debts just to please, themselves, posponing what they owe porr people like me (who works one day after another) and these, when preaching, do love people "commit" to give their church money, these love to rise funds (just for them) (Ezek 34) so I better watch I live by one day economy, cause I couldn´t get as much as I tried: "Psa 62:10 Don't trust in your power to take things by force. Don't think you will gain anything by stealing. And if you become wealthy, don't put your trust in riches." and "Ecc 5:11 The more wealth people have, the more "friends" they have to help spend it. So the rich really gain nothing. They can only look at their wealth. "