It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Ye Olde "Lose-Faith" Canard

Some have been going on about "losing faith," a category they seem to have dreamed up to negate trusting in the Lord Jesus for a secure eternal life. Those who have been doing this have not posted one verse about "losing faith" to prove that such a thing exists in the Bible.

Then they seem to think that if they post that "Cows fly airplanes," somebody is required to find a Bible verse that says "Cows don't fly airplanes"! But if you have an assertion on losing faith, you need to prove it.

I ran a search on the ASV (1901), a literal translation, to see if lose and faith ever occurred in a verse, either together or separate. The results were negative. Then I ran a "fuzzy search" to see if there were something like lose faith, and again I got negative results.

It is really bad methodology to dream up a category and impose it on scripture. Then if you insist that others must prove that it doesn't occur, that is also bad methodology.

Apostasy does occur in the Bible; that is, professed Christians stop professing to be Christians. Hebrews 6:9 implies that the persons thus described in Heb 6 were not saved.

1 John 2 also speaks of apostasy, and implies that those apostate persons were never in the Church, the Body of Christ; thus never saved.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."


And it should be noted that the proof of eternal security (or an attempt to disprove it), should focus directly on that subject. Other subjects (like "lose faith") are not the subject for primary focus. Direct scripture on topic is what is needed.

Regardless of this or that, John 10 rings true:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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And how have you been Brother.
Radius radiated:

" didn't read the 54 pages, but has anyone said HOW MUCH/MANY good works/repentance is needed to be FULLY saved. I need to pick up one of those good works measurement thingies after work tomorrow to keep track."

The answer to dear Radius is approximately as below, but to do enough works requires completely it to the exact amount, going beyond what I post:


3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196 4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273 724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609...
 
Mar 28, 2014
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One can niether save one's self nor keep one's self. Jesus gives us His righteousness and the Holy Spirit seals us, both showing us the love, mercy and faithfulness of the Father.
While your statement is true Jesus is still saying Follow me and sin no more or has his message changed?
John 8:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.



John 5:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
31
0
Ye Olde "Lose-Faith" Canard

Some have been going on about "losing faith," a category they seem to have dreamed up to negate trusting in the Lord Jesus for a secure eternal life. Those who have been doing this have not posted one verse about "losing faith" to prove that such a thing exists in the Bible.

Then they seem to think that if they post that "Cows fly airplanes," somebody is required to find a Bible verse that says "Cows don't fly airplanes"! But if you have an assertion on losing faith, you need to prove it.

I ran a search on the ASV (1901), a literal translation, to see if lose and faith ever occurred in a verse, either together or separate. The results were negative. Then I ran a "fuzzy search" to see if there were something like lose faith, and again I got negative results.

It is really bad methodology to dream up a category and impose it on scripture. Then if you insist that others must prove that it doesn't occur, that is also bad methodology.

Apostasy does occur in the Bible; that is, professed Christians stop professing to be Christians. Hebrews 6:9 implies that the persons thus described in Heb 6 were not saved.

1 John 2 also speaks of apostasy, and implies that those apostate persons were never in the Church, the Body of Christ; thus never saved.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us,
they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."


And it should be noted that the proof of eternal security (or an attempt to disprove it), should focus directly on that subject. Other subjects (like "lose faith") are not the subject for primary focus. Direct scripture on topic is what is needed.

Regardless of this or that, John 10 rings true:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
If one wants to see the truth it is always there as promised
[h=3]Matthew 10:22[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.


This brings to mind Judas Iscariot who was one of the twelve given power to heal and cast out devils.
[h=3]Matthew 10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
If one wants to see the truth it is always there as promised
Matthew 10:22

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
In that verse neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."
It refers to making it to the End of the Tribulation before Christ returns to sort out the earth.
But eternal security certainly implies that believers endure by the grace of God to the end.


This brings to mind Judas Iscariot who was one of the twelve given power to heal and cast out devils.
Matthew 10

King James Version (KJV)

10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Yes, but in your text neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."

Apostasy happens; professed believers deny the gospel and depart. Heb 6:9 describes such as never saved. 1 John 2 does the same.

Instead of focusing on this or that, where "eternal life" is not mentioned nor "salvation," focus on the plain word of God on topic:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
 
A

Alligator

Guest
In that verse neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."
It refers to making it to the End of the Tribulation before Christ returns to sort out the earth.
But eternal security certainly implies that believers endure by the grace of God to the end.




Yes, but in your text neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."

Apostasy happens; professed believers deny the gospel and depart. Heb 6:9 describes such as never saved. 1 John 2 does the same.

Instead of focusing on this or that, where "eternal life" is not mentioned nor "salvation," focus on the plain word of God on topic:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
Neither does scripture say that we are saved by "faith alone".
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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In that verse neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."
It refers to making it to the End of the Tribulation before Christ returns to sort out the earth.
But eternal security certainly implies that believers endure by the grace of God to the end.




Yes, but in your text neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."

Apostasy happens; professed believers deny the gospel and depart. Heb 6:9 describes such as never saved. 1 John 2 does the same.

Instead of focusing on this or that, where "eternal life" is not mentioned nor "salvation," focus on the plain word of God on topic:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
You must be truly a natural man. You have great diffiiculty in understanding scripture. You cite texts that speaks about Christ's promises, but never the promises of man. Your understanding of Covanantal relationships seem to be non existant.

We enter a relationship. A mutual, interactive, synergistic, cooperative relationship. All of your security texts are ONLY speaking of God's promises to man.

I asked you before find the same kind of promises that man can use to promise to God his side of the Covenant. It is rhetorical because you will not find a single one. God is NOT SAVING you unilaterally. He is saving a believer through that persons faith and will. Man cannot make the same promises regarding his faith, nor his will. God cannot and will not force any human being to join with him, nor remain.

I don't know if you are a Calvinist as a whole, but OSAS is a tenet of Calvinism and can ONLY work in a theology of Predestination where man is not an active agent. Where man is passive and does not have an interactive relationship with Christ. Thus God's promises become locked in stone because ONLY God is the determining factor is predetination some to be saved (heaven) and the rest to hell.
However, God's relationship with man is not static or predestinated, or governed by any decree fo God. It is governed by man because man is the weak and moving link in the relationship. Since the relationship is based on faith, man's faith, then there is the real possibility that man can leave the fold if he loses faith. There are some 200 texts, contexts in scripture that speak regarding losing faith, or exhorting to endure, to remain faithful. These statements would be null and void in a static, predestinated, union of God with man which is why you need to change their meaning and make man null and void in a dynamic relationship.

OSAS is a false teaching of scripture, will always be. It is premised on a larger false teaching which is predestination.

You have done this on a consistant basis throughout this thread, including this post. You needed to change the meaning of the word endure, which is speakiing to a believer, that if he expects to attain the promise of eternal life, he must endure to the end. One must take all of scripture not isolated texts to create a doctrine that becomes contradictory with other scriptures.

The second error or assumption in your theology is that by entering into Christ one is saved as in the past tense, concretely, locked in stone. Which is reality for predestination. But in scripture it means one enters into a relationship, has possession of eternal life, but it is the living of that committment one makes when one enters, namely to believe, then follow. If we stop following, obeying, doing His will, we obviously no longer have faith, thus no longer will attain eternal life with Christ. It is not rocket science. God does NOT make you believe, nor does He MAKE you obey Him. These are free choices of man and choice he will give an account for at the judgement.

YOu can keep posting all of God's promises, but they are ONLY one-half of the relationship. Which is why the statements regarding losing faith is the nemisis of man because it is very real. Scripture also portrays it as very real with all the warnings against losing faith.

We are in the same relationship with God that Adam had in the beginning. It is the very purpose of why God created man. When Adam lost that possibility, Christ redeemed the world, and then offered eternal life to every single human being, to freely join, and freely stay. OSAS loses with the story of Adam. He was under a commandmen to obey or die, so are we - Abide or die. Very simple and straightforward.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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You must be truly a natural man. You have great diffiiculty in understanding scripture.
Cassian, you just go on so much of the time just saying your things. Give heed to God's word.

You cite texts that speaks about Christ's promises, but never the promises of man. Your understanding of Covanantal relationships seem to be non existant.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

We enter a relationship. A mutual, interactive, synergistic, cooperative relationship. All of your security texts are ONLY speaking of God's promises to man.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

I asked you before find the same kind of promises that man can use to promise to God his side of the Covenant. It is rhetorical because you will not find a single one.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

However, God's relationship with man is not static or predestinated, or governed by any decree fo God.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

It is governed by man because man is the weak and moving link in the relationship. Since the relationship is based on faith, man's faith,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

OSAS is a false teaching of scripture, will always be. It is premised on a larger false teaching which is predestination. .

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
One must take all of scripture not isolated texts to create a doctrine that becomes contradictory with other scriptures.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


But in scripture it means one enters into a relationship, has possession of eternal life,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


YOu can keep posting all of God's promises,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

He was under a commandmen to obey or die, so are we - Abide or die. Very simple and straightforward

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
While your statement is true Jesus is still saying Follow me and sin no more or has his message changed?
John 8:10-12 [apocryphal story, does not belong in the Bible.]

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
[apocryphal story, does not belong in the Bible.]


John 5:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
Whatever you make of your texts, they don't mention eternal life, nor salvation -- so they are off topic.

The word says plainly

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
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In that verse neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."
It refers to making it to the End of the Tribulation before Christ returns to sort out the earth.
But eternal security certainly implies that believers endure by the grace of God to the end.




Yes, but in your text neither lose nor faith occurs; certainly not "lose faith."

Apostasy happens; professed believers deny the gospel and depart. Heb 6:9 describes such as never saved. 1 John 2 does the same.

Instead of focusing on this or that, where "eternal life" is not mentioned nor "salvation," focus on the plain word of God on topic:

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
you see what you want to see.How many ends are there...what is the purpose of salvation if not for eternal life. Your problem is you are saved before you endure to the end. But the scripture says
Matthew 10:22

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
I am no scholar so you can check this in the Greek.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 1:17-19[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize,[SUP](A)[/SUP] but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom[SUP](B)[/SUP] and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness[SUP](C)[/SUP] to those who are perishing,[SUP](D)[/SUP] but to us who are being saved[SUP](E)[/SUP] it is the power of God.[SUP](F)[/SUP] [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Whatever you make of your texts, they don't mention eternal life, nor salvation -- so they are off topic.

The word says plainly

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
you see what you want to see.How many ends are there...what is the purpose of salvation if not for eternal life. Your problem is you are saved before you endure to the end. But the scripture says
Matthew 10:22

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
I am no scholar so you can check this in the Greek.
New Birth, this is enduring to the end of the Tribulation to the 2nd Coming of Christ. But regardless, persons who trust Christ do endure (they don't perish, they have everlasting life).

1 Corinthians 1:17-19
New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize,[SUP](A)[/SUP] but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom[SUP](B)[/SUP] and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness[SUP](C)[/SUP] to those who are perishing,[SUP](D)[/SUP] but to us who are being saved[SUP](E)[/SUP] it is the power of God.[SUP](F)[/SUP] [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Is it too much for me to ask you to do your homework on this one? Salvation comes in 3 tenses. The Believer was saved (past), is being saved, and will be saved. These facts are not mutually exclusive.

To be born again, all you need do is to trust the Lord Jesus as your only and sufficient Savior. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What prevents you from right now securing the new birth?
Do you have enough faith to ask the Lord Jesus to save you?
I refer to the Lord Jesus who is YHWH; He became man, died on the cross to pay for all our sins, and rose from the dead.

Can you pray right now:

"Lord Jesus, please save me, make me a new person, forgive me of all my sins, and give me your free gift of eternal life. I do now trust you as my only and sufficient Savior, and I depend on your death to pay for all my sins."
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Neither does scripture say that we are saved by "faith alone".
Many many times salvation is offered by faith alone.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. No other conditions are required. This is over and over.

For by grace you have been saved through faith [addressing those who are saved] and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.

Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.


14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.

13
For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Many many times salvation is offered by faith alone.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. No other conditions are required. This is over and over.

For by grace you have been saved through faith [addressing those who are saved] and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.

Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.

1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.


14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.

13
For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
You have to consider the whole Gospel, not just part of it. Not just the part that only supports your point of view. I don't see repentance mentioned much in those verses. Are you saying repentance is not necessary for salvation? I don't believe you are.
what about Luke 13:3. It doesn't even mention faith but we know it is required. How about Acts 2:38, no mention of faith in that verse either. I Pet. 3:21 only mentions baptism with no mention of faith. This is why I say you have to put it all together and not cherry pick certain verses.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
Cassian, you just go on so much of the time just saying your things. Give heed to God's word.

You cite texts that speaks about Christ's promises, but never the promises of man. Your understanding of Covanantal relationships seem to be non existant.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

We enter a relationship. A mutual, interactive, synergistic, cooperative relationship. All of your security texts are ONLY speaking of God's promises to man.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

I asked you before find the same kind of promises that man can use to promise to God his side of the Covenant. It is rhetorical because you will not find a single one.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

However, God's relationship with man is not static or predestinated, or governed by any decree fo God.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

It is governed by man because man is the weak and moving link in the relationship. Since the relationship is based on faith, man's faith,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

OSAS is a false teaching of scripture, will always be. It is premised on a larger false teaching which is predestination. .

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
One must take all of scripture not isolated texts to create a doctrine that becomes contradictory with other scriptures.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


But in scripture it means one enters into a relationship, has possession of eternal life,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish


YOu can keep posting all of God's promises,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

He was under a commandmen to obey or die, so are we - Abide or die. Very simple and straightforward

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish
As I stated earlier, a Christian from the 1st century to the current one would have understood clearly what I was stating. It has been the Gospel of Christ from the beginning.
That you cannot understand it as it was given and preserved is because you have been persuaded by false teachings, including OSAS.

I have heeded to God's word. You are the one that has adopted several man devised theories they imposed upon scripture which I have pointed out to you.

Until you remove your blinders you will never understand scripture.
You can hold to these views, but they are not what scripture has always taught. If you prefer you own intellectual theories and other men's theories you are certainly welcome to them. They are not for me. I trust and believe in Christ and His Gospel, not philosophies of men.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
mark

χάραγμα
charagma
khar'-ag-mah
From the same as G5482; a scratch tattoo or etching, that is a badge of servitude
or sculptured object created from stone - modern translation microchip engraved stamped and etched silicone stone idol pixels

RFID
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
Badge of servitude to satan and babylons merchants of the earth who buy sell loan and borrow with the stamp etching creation of servitude and subservience of the credit system a stamp etching that does SPEAK!
pixels...

sa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Jesus will never leave you nor forsake you but you can forsake Him.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
If not then it is not free will.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
ev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, (TV) and cause that as many as would not kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand the image likeness, etched object RFID, of the beast should be killed.



you take that system God has promised you will not have eternal security.