It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Alligator]

Note how John832 fails to quote Heb 6:9 where it is explained how the preceding apostasy is not about saved persons, but mere professors. Professors may depart; but it proves that they were never part of the Church to begin with (1 John 2).

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Hebrews 6:4-6
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

how can one look at these verses and say that these people were never saved.

They were once enlightened, they tasted of the heavenly gift, they have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the goodness of the word of God, and you're telling me they were never saved? It says they fell away. They couldn't have fallen from someplace they had never been. It is quite simple.

 

[Cassian]

Note how John832 fails to quote Heb 6:9 where it is explained how the preceding apostasy is not about saved persons, but mere professors. Professors may depart; but it proves that they were never part of the Church to begin with (1 John 2).

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Still changing scripture to fit your theory. Where is scripture does it describe two kinds of believers as confessors and professors? You should include vs 11-12 which emphatically denies OSAS. If OSAS were in fact scriptural, those verses are pure nonsense and just wasted verbiage. It is God's power but it is ONLY through Man's faith.

 

[Deadtosin]

As a christian. A true lover of Jesus Christ. A man who truly trusts Jesus for my salvation. I read the bible and see where we are warned over and over again about the real dangers in the world. Not just physically but spiritually. Not just for non believers but believers.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[Cassian]

Hebrews 6:4-6
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

how can one look at these verses and say that these people were never saved.

They were once enlightened, they tasted of the heavenly gift, they have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the goodness of the word of God, and you're telling me they were never saved? It says they fell away. They couldn't have fallen from someplace they had never been. It is quite simple.

That phrase is the classic definition of a believer in the NT. It lists all the preliminary acts of entrance. Baptism, Eucharist, indwelling of the Holy Spirit and recieved the gifts of the Spirit.

As we already know in this thread there are many redefinitions that must be made in order to make OSAS seem plausible.

 

[Deadtosin]

I choose to cast my eyes away from partially clad women. To not watch things that bring the old carnal feelings. I turn away and trust Jesus to deliver me from evil in the time of my temptation. It is a slippery slope. If I watch the wrong thing too long, spend to much time with the world and less time with my God. Things can get very bad.. It wouldn't be God who did that. It would be me.

 

[newbirth]

Did I say that the spirit placed within us is 'ours'? "being born of God = "man must be born again" = that which is born of the Spirit is spirit = partaker of the divine nature". It is God's spirit in us that makes us his kids

Yes, there are disobedient "children" - does that negate their sonship? We can be led by the Spirit, of course. That is what I meant by "after this all concerns our walk with God - will we walk by the Spirit or walk by the flesh - our relationship - our fellowship fluctuates by our walk but our standing as a child of God is eternal - as the spirit that he placed within us is eternal." My children sometimes disobey me but hey, they are still my children - my 'seed' remains in them and it is corruptible - God's 'seed' remains in us and it is incorruptible.

I did not say you did I was making a point ...But I am not going to respond without your supporting scripture

 

[Atwood]

I choose to cast my eyes away from partially clad women. To not watch things that bring the old carnal feelings. I turn away and trust Jesus to deliver me from evil in the time of my temptation. It is a slippery slope. If I watch the wrong thing too long, spend to much time with the world and less time with my God. Things can get very bad.. It wouldn't be God who did that. It would be me.

The most important thing I note in your post is
"trust Jesus to deliver me from evil"

And Dead, could we divide those things you mentioned into
1) things present and
2) things to come?

Is it not secure to know

that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
?

 

[Atwood]

That phrase is the classic definition of a believer in the NT [sic]. It lists all the preliminary acts of entrance. Baptism [sic], Eucharist [false], indwelling [false] of the Holy Spirit and recieved the gifts of the Spirit[false].

Cassian, Heb 6 (start) describes a Jew who is a professed Christian very well, not a real Christian.. All those things were true of Judas. There is no baptism in the passage (baptisma); it is baptismoi (plural of baptismos) plural washings! Christians don't have ritual washings in the NT.

That is it not a saved Christian is directly stated in 6:9, which unbelievers in salvation, like to omit:
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

As we already know

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

in this thread

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

there are many redefinitions

I give them eternal life,

that must be made

and they will never perish

in order

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

to make OSAS seem

they will never perish

plausible.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

As a christian. A true lover of Jesus Christ. A man who truly trusts Jesus for my salvation. I read the bible and see where we are warned over and over again about the real dangers in the world. Not just physically but spiritually. Not just for non believers but believers.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Yes, but the real danger is that we may fail to love the Lord our God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourself. We may get caught up on legalistic obsessive tiddlywinks and forget that if we love neighbor as self we fulfill the entire law.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Why its an attack on the Power of God !

Now I am going to prove by scripture why that those who oppose Eternal Security even after seeing 1 Pet 1:5, that they attack the Power of God !

Paul wrote to the Romans and particular to the Gentile Believers this Rom 11:20

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Then later in the same letter Paul writes this Rom 14:4

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This informs us that one stands by God's ability, he shall be holden up !

Now the word able here in Rom 14:4 is the same word as Power in 1 Pet 1:5

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

That's proof positive that its the Power of God that keeps one through Faith, because we stand by Faith Rom 11:20 and God ables us to stand Rom 14:4 !

So once again, those who reject Eternal Security even in light of the teaching of 1 Pet 1:5, they do attack the very Power and abilty of God, such should be turned away from, they are true believers 2 Tim 3:5

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

No True Believer has any business going to any church that denies Eternal Security, they are denying the Faith if they do !

is this your position...Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

 

[Atwood]

Still changing scripture to fit your theory. [false] Where is scripture does it describe two kinds of believers as confessors and professors?

I did not say that; you make things up. I say there are persons who actually trust Christ as Savior vs. those who only play church, professed Christians; these do not believe in the sense of trusting Christ as Savior, though they may believe facts, like the demons do about God. But they never (like yourself from all evidence) ever trusted Christ as Savior; like religious Nicodemus was told, you must be born again. Cassian, look in the mirror.

Heb 6 describes the two, commenting in 6:9 how the author is convinced of better things that apply to them, things that accompany salvation, in contrast with the professors before.

1 John 2 describes them. Apostates were never in the Church.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."


You should

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

include

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

vs 11-12

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

which emphatically

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

denies OSAS.

No it does not!

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

If OSAS were in fact scriptural,

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

those verses are pure nonsense

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

and just wasted verbiage. [nonsense!]

How can a warning vs mere profession be wasted verbiage?

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

It is God's power

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

but it is ONLY through

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish

Man's faith.

So, when are you going to put your faith in the Lord Jesus as your only & sufficient Savior? When will you trust Him with your destiny?
You can't get to Heaven without doing that.

 

[Atwood]

Hebrews 6:4-6
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

how can one look at these verses and say that these people were never saved.

They were once enlightened, they tasted of the heavenly gift, they have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the goodness of the word of God, and you're telling me they were never saved? It says they fell away. They couldn't have fallen from someplace they had never been. It is quite simple.

Don't you have a Bible that goes through 6:9 where the punch line is?

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

All those things could apply to Judas, who had a demon, probably even from the time he was picked to be an apostle.

 

[newbirth]

"That which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The Lord is not making another God in us; our spirits get a renewal, a new birth. This is not the Holy Spirit giving birth to Himself.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I am perplexed as to why you quote Mat 7:21. That obviously refers to someone at the Judgment addressing the Lord Jesus as "Lord, Lord." It has nothing to do with what they did in their life.

It has nothing to do with calling on the LORD in this life and asking Him to save you.
2 Corinthians 5:9-11
King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Now are you sure you want to figure things out so as to prevent yourself from asking the Lord Jesus to save you and give you eternal life -- then trusting Him to actually give you eternal life and take care of your destiny?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

God is good

 

[Atwood]

Yawn, don't you have anything new??

We may be boring, but the Word of God is not.

Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Do your vocal cords work, Alligator?

 

[newbirth]

Originally Posted by Atwood

And since you don't obey, what are you going to do?
Since Romans 1 describes you, what is your hope?



So you are a real good boy, and Romans 1 doesn't apply to you. You are righteous. In that case, the Lord did not come to call you. You are out of luck. The only ones He saves are sinners.

God be merciful to me a sinner.

I don't obey doctrine of man with false hope...one verse... I follow Christ not one verse....I hear him not one verse

I follow Christ,I obey Christ his word abide in me and I shall continue to follow.( re your reference to me concerning Rom1)
Are you offended because of my position ,do you prefer I were in Rom 1,or
Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

 

[2Thewaters]

"Tell them, 'As I live, declares the Almighty LORD, I don't want wicked people to die. Rather, I want them to turn from their ways and live. Change the way you think and act! Turn from your wicked ways! Do you want to die, people of Israel?' 12 "Son of man, say to your people, 'The right things that a righteous person has done will not save him when he rebels. The wicked things that a wicked person has done will not make him stumble when he turns from his wickedness. The righteous person will not live when he sins.'

sin is the transgression of Gods perfect law of love to God and man the ten commandments.
13 I may promise the righteous person that he will certainly live. But if he trusts in the right things that he has done and he does evil, none of the right things that he has done will be remembered. He will die because of the evil things he has done. 14 I may warn the wicked person that he will certainly die. But suppose he turns from his sin and does what is fair and right.15 He returns the security for a loan, pays back everything he stole, lives by the rules of life, and does nothing evil. Then he will certainly live. He will not die. 16 None of the sins that he has done will be remembered. He has done what is fair and right. He will certainly live. 17 "But your people say, 'The Lord's way is unfair.' Yet, their ways are unfair. 18 If the righteous person turns from the right things that he has done and does evil, he will die because of it. 19 If the wicked person turns from his wickedness and does what is fair and right, he will live because of it.

God forgives
IF you repent
that is the key.

Salvation is conditional on your acceptance of the truth and living by it.

 

[2Thewaters]

repentance doesnt forgive
but it is necessary

obedience doesnt save but it is necessary

obedience will not save you
and
DISOBEDIENCE will CERTAINLY never save you either.

the difference is
the obedient are given the holy spirit

those who ignore the law are not given the holy spirit.


Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things;
and so is also the holy ghost,
whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Heb_5:9 And being made perfect,
he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him;



1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

[Atwood]

Flipping Through Philippians: The Gift of Faith

Attention Ye Who Dwell on the Present Tense Continuous Idea

Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ: that, whether I come and see you or be absent, I may hear of your state, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one soul striving for the faith of the gospel; and in nothing affrighted by the adversaries: which is for them an evident token of perdition, but of your salvation, and that from God; because

to you it has been granted in the behalf of Christ,
not only to believe on him,

but also to suffer in his behalf: having the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me. < Philip 1

I can hear someone objecting that this means "a chance to believe" instead of to believe itself. However, inasmuch as the to suffer is a parallel gift and the suffering is not a chance for the Philippians, but a certainty, I think we must take the to believe as also a certainty. (Those who want to make belief the result of election will rejoice at this.)

Now those who love the present tense, and present tense infinitives, who want to make it mean continually and without stopping, may ponder that one here. Does this mean that not only is faith a gift, but the continuation of the believing is also a gift?

Is the Lord Jesus with the Spirit secretly standing behind the believer throwing buckets of oil on the fire in the believer's heart, while satan and those who disbelieve the gospel are trying to dump cold water from the front? Is He praying for the believer, as He did for Peter than the believer's faith fail not (without bothering to consult Peter on the issue of disrespecting his free will)? If He did it for Peter, would it be fair if He did not do it for all Christians? If the Lord Jesus prays the Father that a man's faith fail not, can his faith fail?

 

[Atwood]

repentance doesnt forgive
but it is necessary

obedience doesnt save but it is necessary

obedience will not save you
and
DISOBEDIENCE will CERTAINLY never save you either.

the difference is
the obedient are given the holy spirit

those who ignore the law [error!] are not given the holy spirit.


Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things;
and so is also the holy ghost,
whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Heb_5:9 And being made perfect,
he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him;



1Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The only obedience required for salvation is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Faith or believe is reiterated time after time.
Also, in the great prayer of Eph 3 where Paul intercedes for the Ephesians, Paul prays that the Christian will be strengthened with power by the Holy Spirit that Christ may dwell in His heart (not periphery) by faith. Here the empowering of the Spirit precedes the Christian's faith, all resulting in being filled to all the fulness of God.

The receipt of initial salvation is for one thing only on man's part: Faith, trust in the Lord Jesus. With that comes the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So who initiates the process? Miserable man's obedience to God's commands, or God Himself?

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree. Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins. And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to them that obey him.

Can you stomach that God gives repentance, a change of mind from disbelief to belief? And that is where it all starts?

But that works do not save is clear. So if you think that general obedience to God's command saves, you are in direct violation of scripture.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; not of works lest anyone boast.

Are you ready to obey the gospel as stated above? Or do you disobey in your self-righteous works system?
Obey now! You must be saved God's Way or do without salvation. All Christians receive the Spirit and are sealed by the Spirit once saved. But you must obey the Gospel: Believe plus no works, trust the Savior with your destiny.

 

[Atwood]

I don't obey doctrine of man with false hope...one verse... I follow Christ not one verse....I hear him not one verse

We had best follow scripture, whether one verse or the whole book. The Lord Jesus gave out one-liner verse quotes sometimes. We dare not ignore them.

Perseverance of the Saints:

You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

That is a great statement, newbirth!