The Letter to the Romans...

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Top oxjonz, OK, I will agree that Yahshua and I are a lot a like. This is because we both believe in the literal meaning of the Bible and try to agree with the Bible, God's inspired Word. Where and when God wants to speak in figurative language it is very clear and God usually explain what He means, If He doesn't ,then we dare not interpret it our own way. Are you the one who believes we are born with a good nature and don't need to be born again? Love Hofffco
 
Good Morning to All from the Philippines; I am always wondering where people are, and what time it is where they are. It is now 6am in the Philippines. That would make it 6pm in New York. I came from N.Y. ,Adirondack mts. Lake George area. Soooo happy to not have the cold, snowy winters . One brother has moved to N.C. to be near two of their children, I was planning to move there ,but after my wife died I visited the Philippines and feel in love with a Christian lady and and sold all in N.Y. and move here where we run a mission for the poor. My heart goes out to these poor .nice people, that are so needy,and many are soo kind to me. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Because a good understanding of Romans is a must for getting the N.T. teaching of the Gospel of God down solid, I have been sitting on these first 11 chapters. Also to allow new people to joint us and get up to where we are. I am only looking for a few persons who are with me and want to learn these great truths of God. and not argue with us. It is helpful for us to see the teaching in Galatians and compare it to Romans. Galatians was written first, but Jesus taught Paul the content of Romans immediately upon Saul's conversion by Jesus. Jesus appeared personally to Saul and took him to Arabia Gal.1:17 for Bible College 101. Please read Galatians several times. Love to all. Hoffco
 
I will give you my interpretive outline of Galatians: I. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace, which caused Paul's new birth, which started God's sanctification process, which makes us fit for Heaven. And Paul's Authority. Explained and defended. Chs.1-2:14. II. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace produced faith for Justification. We are given the right position, standing, in Christ for Heaven. Explained and defended. Chs.2:15-4:31. III. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace produces good works which leads us to eternal life. Chs.5 &6. This outline will show you that Paul always has his declaration of Eph. 2 8-10 in mind. Salvation is by grace, thru faith, unto good works. Love to all Hoffco
 
"good works which leads us to eternal life."? Which only indicates that you do believe that it is by doing good works the outcome from that activity for you will be eternal life you've earned. A man can only speak from the abundance of what is in his heart. Go back to the drawing board ya need to make a new plan for yourself.
 
To oxjonz, To prove that one must be holy to gain eternal life, You have only to read Gal.6:7-9"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap ETERNAL LIFE. And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in do time we shall reap if we do not grow weary." Also, read Gal.5:19-21"Now the deeds of the flesh are...those who practice such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." The WORDS of GOD has spoken, SO do not contradict it. If you do not agree with God's WORD, Please do not post here again. I am looking for a few people who know and who agree with GOD'S clear WORDS. Love to all, Hoffco ps. On this thread each one must be willing to listen to the clear Words of God!
 
Please do not flood this page with verses that APPEAR to contradict Paul's clear words. Please note that oxjonz added his words to mine, making me to lie. I did not say, I would "earn" eternal life, I said "gain" or receive eternal life. the two words ,"earn" and "gain" are not the same. I am looking for those who agree with GOD'S WORD to add scriptures that show, one must be changed, holy, to receive eternal life. Love to all. Hoffco Please remember: salvation is by Grace, thru Faith, unto Good Works, Eph.2:8-10.
 
I know I have understood the verses that I have quoted, I must "SOW" to the "Spirit" to "REAP",gain, eternal life. I have taken them at face value, and I let the words mean, what they mean. NOW, I look for confirmation of this meaning, teaching, from this book itself, first, then from the whole Bible, other books of the Bible. SO, Gal.1: 4 says, Jesus died to, "deliver us out of this present evil age," this is spiritual, not physical "deliver". this backs up my interpretation of Gal.5:21. and 6:7-9. I must live holy to "reap" eternal life. NOW, I remember Rom.2:6-7 "God," "who will render to each one according to their deeds. Eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor,and immortality;" , and I an assured, I am reading the Bible correctly. Love to all. Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
Please do not flood this page with verses that APPEAR to contradict Paul's clear words. Please note that oxjonz added his words to mine, making me to lie. I did not say, I would "earn" eternal life, I said "gain" or receive eternal life. the two words ,"earn" and "gain" are not the same. I am looking for those who agree with GOD'S WORD to add scriptures that show, one must be changed, holy, to receive eternal life. Love to all. Hoffco Please remember: salvation is by Grace, thru Faith, unto Good Works, Eph.2:8-10.
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Your words were identified by quotation marks, "------", to show that you had compromised your own argument.
 
cxjonz said:
"good works which leads us to eternal life."? Which only indicates that you do believe that it is by doing good works the outcome from that activity for you will be eternal life you've earned. A man can only speak from the abundance of what is in his heart. Go back to the drawing board ya need to make a new plan for yourself.
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To my friend, oxjonz, thanks for your kind response. My statement was /is "good works which leads us to eternal life." YOU added these words: "you've earned". I would never say we can earn eternal life; Eternal life is the gift of God's grace and mercy. The Bible does speak of eternal life as a reward of good works. To the rich, Paul says, "instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed." 1 Tim. 6:18-19. As we say. "what goes around comes around" but we are not earning life but assuring our eternal life. It all has to do with what meaning you put on the word. We have heard a one sided evil gospel to long, just trust Jesus and don't try to obey, that would be the sinful flesh ,trying to earn salvation. we need to hear the whole Word of God. Lets just quote God and let God be God. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
I will give you my interpretive outline of Galatians: I. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace, which caused Paul's new birth, which started God's sanctification process, which makes us fit for Heaven. And Paul's Authority. Explained and defended. Chs.1-2:14. II. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace produced faith for Justification. We are given the right position, standing, in Christ for Heaven. Explained and defended. Chs.2:15-4:31. III. Salvation by God's effectual, powerful Grace produces good works which leads us to eternal life. Chs.5 &6. This outline will show you that Paul always has his declaration of Eph. 2 8-10 in mind. Salvation is by grace, thru faith, unto good works. Love to all Hoffco
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It is extremely important that we see the OVERALL teaching of the whole book we are studying. In the making of my outline I pick out clear doctrinal verses that show Paul's underlying teaching on salvation. Then I put them together into an intelligent statement to show the mind of God on that given part of His salvation message; The danger is if we stress one point of God's message to the exclusion of the other balancing parts, then we error. The author's (GOD) meaning of words are key to getting the overall message, the meaning is given by God Himself as we see the settings in which He uses the word. God does not often give us nice, neat statements of His teachings. Romans 8:29-30 and Eph.2:8-10 and Titus 3:4-7 and 1Pet.1:1-2 are very clear as to the order of God's PLAN of salvation, the order is very precise, clear. But, Romans 8:29-30 is the only complete ordering of all the steps in God's salvation plan. This is why I call it THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF GRACE ; no where else in the whole Bible does God list all the steps in His salvation plan. Love to all, Hoffco
 
cxjonz said:
Did I not warn you that my screen name begins with the lc letter c?

Paul has made it extremely clear that salvation is predicated upon the faith to obey the law which has been added. Rom. 2:13 That statement is his premise and summary of the doctrine of salvation he pontificates.
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To cxjonz, sorry ,I have bad eye sight, so I read the Letter c for an o. Thank you for correcting me. I see ch.2 :13 as a key verse as the third way we are justified by God, by works. But faith is not the key to our obedience. The GRACE of God is the key to our faith and obedience. We believe and do good works because of the Grace of God . God begins and ends our salvation. there are three steps in God's sanctification process: 1. New birth. 2. the Christian life 3. death and resurrection. All three steps are done by or/and in the power and love of God. In the new birth itself we are passive and in the Glorification , we are passive. Yet, in 1 and 2 we are very active as we read study and pray and do the will of God; But in the glorification, we are totally passive. Justification also has three parts: 1 by Grace, 2. by faith. 3. by works. In justification by Grace we are passive. except for begging for mercy. In steps two and three we are totally active. Therefore I would say: salvation is "predicated" upon the Grace of God, Not upon faith or works. Faith and works are totally necessary in our salvation but our salvation is caused by God's Grace and Love. Love to all, Hoffco
 
The more I study the Bible The more I see the balance in the Bible's teaching. I see that God makes practical demands and God makes legal demands for a sinner to be saved. And to teach either side only, in extreme, to the lack of the other side, is wrong. Most all of the Bible presents the practical side first. "Repent and believe the Gospel" In Romans and in Galatians God addresses the practical side first, God makes us holy by the new birth before He declares us holy in the blood of Jesus. God does not save people only legally, This would God a partial, evil judge. A salvation that leave sinners, sinners, is not God's salvation. So, both Romans and Galatians begin very practical. God "makes" us sinners into saints, holy ones, sanctified ones, before He declares us forgiven in the Blood of Jesus by "Faith" only. God will not give anyone something they don't deserve. "For there is no partiality with God"; "God...will render to each one according to his deeds" Rom.2:11 &5-6 Only God's GRACE,POWER, can make a sinner deserving of salvation. And God will have MERCY on who ever He wants to. Rom.9:18. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
The more I study the Bible The more I see the balance in the Bible's teaching. I see that God makes practical demands and God makes legal demands for a sinner to be saved. And to teach either side only, in extreme, to the lack of the other side, is wrong. Most all of the Bible presents the practical side first. "Repent and believe the Gospel" In Romans and in Galatians God addresses the practical side first, God makes us holy by the new birth before He declares us holy in the blood of Jesus. God does not save people only legally, This would make God a partial, evil judge. A salvation that leaves sinners, sinners, is not God's salvation. So, both Romans and Galatians begin very practical. God "makes" us sinners into saints, holy ones, sanctified ones, before He declares us forgiven in the Blood of Jesus by "Faith" only. God will not give anyone something they don't deserve. "For there is no partiality with God"; "God...will render to each one according to his deeds" Rom.2:11 &5-6 Only God's GRACE,POWER, can make a sinner deserving of salvation. And God will have MERCY on who ever He wants to. Rom.9:18. Love to all, Hoffco
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Sorry, I forgot a key word, "make" and I left out an "s" on "leaves". So, I will add more verses on "partiality", see Rom. 2:11 also: Acts 10:34-35 Gal.2:6 Eph. 6:4 Col3:25 1Pet.1:17. As Rom. 2 and 3 teaches that the Jews have been given great advantages over the Gentiles: BUT, if the Jews are not holy in life style , none of God's favors to them will save them. Love to all, Hoffco
 
The book of Galatians begins with the holy, effectual, grace change to the sin sinner, then in the middle ,Paul talks of justified by faith without the Jewish rituals of circumcision, days feasts. yrs., then Paul closes the book with the trues of holiness living without which no one will be saved: the "fruit of the Spirit" and "sowing" to the Spirit with good works. This is how God's purpose in salvation works. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Good morning , I see 7 guests, please feel free to ask questions, I am here to teach the Book of Romans and how it relates to the rest of the Bible. Love to all, Hoffco
 
I am looking for people who want to learn. i am not interested in those who hate God's word and fight it . Most Christians today are off on the main teachings of the Bible, Bible Fundamentalism is very much like a cult today. I am a retired lay pastor from N.Y.. I live in the Philippines with my new Phila. wife and have a very active Mission work here with our poor village. I just received my ordination papers, praise God , I am now officially, a Rev.. love to all, Hoffco
 
We are reviewing Romans 1-11. Any questions on those chs. are welcome. If you want to make a note of PRAISE to God for His Great salvation ,please do so. Love to all, Hoffco
 
I know my Bible teaching is different from most teachers of today: But. please don't dismiss me as a false teacher, before you study my positions, which the Bible teaches. Most teachers teach Justification in chs. 1&2 of Romans, there is nothing about being justified by"faith only" in Ch,1 of Romans, that is in chs.3-5. Chs. 1&2 are all about Sanctification ( the calling of the new birth of God upon the "dead" sinner, "called to be saints" which "makes" sinners holy to obey God's laws.) CH 2 ends with the heart circumcision of the Spirit, New birth, and 2:13 shows the result of holy living, we are justified at the judgment seat, by faith in Christ's perfect righteousness and our righteousness in obeying the law of God. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Justification is first by GRACE, the GIFT of GOD. Then it is by FAITH, the in the end: it is by GRACE, FAITH AND WORKS. Hoffco
 
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