The Letter to the Romans...

[Hoffco]

This in elementary: Rom.1:16-17 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written'The just shall live by faith.' " Love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

It should be clear to all that it take a great deal of effort, energy on God's part to save a sinner. God has to create a new heart in the sinner. It took no power for Jesus to legally die an acceptable death to pay the price of our freedom from sin; but when Jesus actually sets the sinner free from his bondage to sin, that takes energy from Jesus. It took alot of active work for Jesus to live a totally righteous life, and to perform miracles. It took no work for Jesus to be killed; But for Jesus to rise from the dead, He did a mighty, powerful miracle, that was God's power. Why do people not see the tremendous power that God exercises to save, convert, to recreate the sinners nature? It just blows my mind to think that preachers just say, just believe on Jesus, and you are saved. All the verses on just believe on Jesus are summary verse, only half true, The real meaning of faith, is to trust and commit your life to Jesus. Believe and confess, believe and be converted, changed, believe and ask God to give you the new heart, to believe and turn you life around and obey God. To believe is the first act of obedience. To be justified by faith alone is not enough to save a sinner; the sinner must be transformed by almighty grave, power. And be forgiven by all forgiving grace, mercy. Love to all, hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

John Piper , Desiring God, has a wonderful sermon on "Faith in future grace". 2thess 1:11-12. He brings put how powerful Grace is that saves us. He teaches that grace is more than just unmerited favor , it is also powerful to transform us, Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Simiel]

God morning Simiel, That is a good question, which I did ask myself. And now I received my answer, someone will respond. Congratulation, you are a "first responded". LOL. Maybe you will volunteer to help me keep this good study going. All we need is a hand full of good people who have a heart to study the Bible and share the wonderful truths with the world of CC. I have had a lot of "likes" on my posts, so I know there are some Christians out there that like a good in deep study. Romans, just because of its position as the 6th book of the N.T. is a very key book to understanding the N.T.. Would you not agree to that? I Love all the Scriptures, Of course, but Romans is one of my best loved books. If you agree with my interpretation, please joint me in making the study stay alive. Even if you don't 100% agree, if you are fair minded and promise not to flood the thread with garbage nonsense, you are welcome to joint, Of course, I am the one who calls the shots. It is my study. To God be the glory, great things He is doing, My OLD age is proving to be my most fruitful. Love to all, Hoffco

Haha yes Romans is a good book, but I am none for flooding the room with garbage. Well that's what they call it, who is trying to prove me wrong lol.

 

[Hoffco]

Good morning Simiel, This is my first cup of coffee for the new day. I like your posts: short and to the point. I see you data, and even with our age span, we could have a good study together; I love to work with the the younger age group. Are you into deep Bible study? Have you come to a conviction of assurance of eternal life? Is there something in you that could only be explained by God the almighty one? Love to all Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

I am convinced this is a worthy cause and will move on with our study of the letter to the Romans. In my studies of Scriptures I will only use a good translation, either the NKJV or the NASV. I don't want any long posts of the living letters or another paraphrase, we can not base a good systematic theology on them, because they are one man's interpretation. NOR the NIV, bad, We each need to build our own sys.theo. on our own study of the pure words of God. Studying one book is a study in biblical theo, but as you relate each topic to the whole Bible ,then you begin to form your sys. theo.. Of the whole Bible. You take all the passages on Justice, for example, and make a blanket statement on the Bibles teaching on Justice. This is how you write your sys.theo book. OK, I will never get my sys.theo book finished ,so I use the books of others, and say this is what I believe also. Maybe, I would need to say , with this exception.... So please, don't condemn the work of others, try to compliment them on how correct they are, so far, and help them get the next step right. Love to all. Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

We will move on to the next section of Romans. 9:1-11:36. This section is number V. in our interpretive outline.
V. God is righteous, just and loving in each dispensation/age of His sovereign, electing and saving grace. 9:1-11:36. A. God chose Israel as His chosen nation. Israel's past was glorious but salvation was only for the chosen remnant.
The Old Cov. age. 9:1-29.
B. God sets Israel aside for judgment and God now focuses on the Whole world. Israel is presently a disobedient and obstinate people. The New Cov. age. 9:30-10:21.
C. Israel will have a glorious messianic age with their Messiah Jesus. the Millennial age, 1,000 yrs. 11:1-36.
Please keep reading, meditating on these three chapters.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hoffco]

In Rom. 9 we see the "unconditional" election of God. "For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of words but of Him who calls), It was said to her, the older shall serve the younger." 9:11-12. The unconditional election is true, and the call of God is all powerful in saving us; But, on the other hand/side, man's side in salvation, we are also involved in our sal. because we must "call upon the lord, 10:13, for Him to CALL us to Himself for sal.. God and man are both, 100% involved. Each does their part. But the bottom line is: God acts first. as Jesus said, "you did not choose Me, no, I have chosen you." Love, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Listen to the God's clear words, God always has the final say. We see the trying time that God put Abraham and Sarah through, to teach a lesson, of His sovereign chose. "Rom.9:8 "children of the promise" Sara's "flesh" womb, was dead, but, rom.4:17 Abraham believe in God, "who gives life to the dead and calls (into being) those things which DO NOT exist as those they did; Isaac was the child of promise. When God brings us to faith, we too believe in God who can bring us into spiritual life. God said Eze.36:26-27 &37 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ... and cause you to walk in My statues"..."I will also let (require) the house of Israel (Israel and Judah,37:16) to inquire (to ask) of Me to do this for them:" As a nation, Israel is dead to Her GOD, but Jesus will bring her to life at HIS second coming. Rom. 9:10-11 Rebecca 's children were not yet born and God said, the older shall serve the younger, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated", before they could do any good thing or bad. "to foreknow" is not knowing before, but, loving before. v16,"So then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy." The potter has power over the same lump of clay, SINNERS, to make good or bad vessels. How clear God's words are. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Our next section in our outline begins in ch.9:30 ; So closing out Ch.9, Paul says that Israel, as a whole, were so self righteous, like the Jew in ch. 2 was so sinful and self righteous, that, they would not trust in JESUS alone for the righteousness of God; BUT the "elect" Gentiles did trust in Jesus alone for justification. the non "elect" Jews, would not submit to Jesus for sal., They wanted to earn sal,, They were offended with a crucified Savior. Love Hoffco
For now let's look at 9:1-29 and study it is depth. I am encouraging you to see what is in the section before us and also relate it to other passages in the Bible that would fill out the teaching here. If we read the section right, then God will give us other passages which will confirm our interpretation. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

I am trying to give you a good example of learning our Biblical theo. from the immediate passage and then going to like passages to build our Systematic theo. from all the related passages of the Bible. This is how we "rightly divide" the scriptures to build a solid theo. of God and His word. Theology is not a scary word, it just means the Teaching about God and each subject in God's word. Love to God, Hoffco ps. enjoy your study

 

[Hoffco]

The letters of the Apostle Paul follow a very specific order; The order is given in Romans 8:29--30: eternally love, predestination, calling, justification. and glorification. This is the order in God's eternal covenant of Grace, which Jesus taught Paul ,personally, in the Arabian desert. Romans was written at the end of Paul's life and Galatians was written earlier in Paul's ministry: But there is a pattern, outline, in Gal. like the order of the book of Romans. Both books rearrange the steps in God's order of salvation in Romans 8:29-30; But the steps are there in both. Please read Galatians in this light and notice the similarities of Paul's doctrine and the order he places them in in each book. Please make comments on these similarities. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[cxjonz]

It should be clear to all that it take a great deal of effort, energy on God's part to save a sinner. God has to create a new heart in the sinner. It took no power for Jesus to legally die an acceptable death to pay the price of our freedom from sin; but when Jesus actually sets the sinner free from his bondage to sin, that takes energy from Jesus. It took alot of active work for Jesus to live a totally righteous life, and to perform miracles. It took no work for Jesus to be killed; But for Jesus to rise from the dead, He did a mighty, powerful miracle, that was God's power. Why do people not see the tremendous power that God exercises to save, convert, to recreate the sinners nature? It just blows my mind to think that preachers just say, just believe on Jesus, and you are saved. All the verses on just believe on Jesus are summary verse, only half true, The real meaning of faith, is to trust and commit your life to Jesus. Believe and confess, believe and be converted, changed, believe and ask God to give you the new heart, to believe and turn you life around and obey God. To believe is the first act of obedience. To be justified by faith alone is not enough to save a sinner; the sinner must be transformed by almighty grave, power. And be forgiven by all forgiving grace, mercy. Love to all, hoffco

"recreate"? implies the return to a former state, but contradicts "Therefore if anyone is in Christ; he is a NEW creation;"

 

[cxjonz]

The letters of the Apostle Paul follow a very specific order; The order is given in Romans 8:29--30: eternally love, predestination, calling, justification. and glorification. This is the order in God's eternal covenant of Grace, which Jesus taught Paul ,personally, in the Arabian desert. Romans was written at the end of Paul's life and Galatians was written earlier in Paul's ministry: But there is a pattern, outline, in Gal. like the order of the book of Romans. Both books rearrange the steps in God's order of salvation in Romans 8:29-30; But the steps are there in both. Please read Galatians in this light and notice the similarities of Paul's doctrine and the order he places them in in each book. Please make comments on these similarities. Love to all, Hoffco

Never have figured out how a fellow interprets any book of the Bible correctly by starting in the middle of it. My ten against your one he doesn't.

 

[cxjonz]

Romans 1:1-6

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,​

What Paul's Saying...
So grace is defined as the power to be obedient...a power that is Christ’s alone.

Nope. Your basic assumption is wrong. It shifts your definite responsibility of OBEYING what is heard to the argumentative excuse of not being empowered to obey what was heard. "He that hears My words AND puts them into practice is My disciple." You need to go back to the drawing board before you proceed any further.

 

[Hoffco]

"recreate"? implies the return to a former state, but contradicts "Therefore if anyone is in Christ; he is a NEW creation;"

To cxjonz, Thank you for your replys. I have seen many of your posts and wonder how you can take a clear English sentence and turn the clear mean inside out, upside down, etc. . Is English your native language? I could see how you might get confused if you are native to a foreign language. But for an English speaking person, it is incredible what you make out of clear English. The story of redemption is the story of, paradise lost , paradise regained. Jesus is recreating what Adam lost. We are "renewed" in the image of God who created us, In Adam, human kind was perfect, then lost, then in redemption, holiness is renewed, regained, brought back to the original state. Is this not what the Bible says? 2Cor.5:17 tell of the new birth of a dead soul/spirit and so Paul say: "If anyone is in Christ, a new creation", this is literal, Paul says it as an EXCLAMATION, WOW, Look at God's renewing work, a recreative work in our spirit ,death to life, WOW!!! To create takes POWER and creation brings into BEING a NEW thing, not there before, a "new creation". WE are a new spiritual person, His workmanship, created for good works. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Never have figured out how a fellow interprets any book of the Bible correctly by starting in the middle of it. My ten against your one he doesn't.

This study begin in Ch1:1; you are a late comer. Please read the first 1,000 plus posts to get caught up. LOL. Love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

For all to know: Yahshua is the man who started this thread, but he abandoned it, so, I took it over. To oxjonz, how could Paul say it any clearer, He was given apostleship to "bring about the obedience of faith". Of course it takes POWER to recreate sinners into saints, to make then obey.! it takes God's spiritual power to make new genes in us so we would have a new, reborn, spiritual nature in our dead spirit. In the new earth, how will wild animals live together with out killing each other? if they are not changed to a new nature of kindness and eat grass, not flesh.? Love to all, Hoffco

 

[cxjonz]

This study begin in Ch1:1; you are a late comer. Please read the first 1,000 plus posts to get caught up. LOL. Love Hoffco

I did and the author's base conjecture is wrong. And I am sure that every thing you've posted, after reading a few of your contrary ideas, is no better than his.

 

[cxjonz]

For all to know: Yahshua is the man who started this thread, but he abandoned it, so, I took it over. To oxjonz, how could Paul say it any clearer, He was given apostleship to "bring about the obedience of faith". Of course it takes POWER to recreate sinners into saints, to make then obey.! it takes God's spiritual power to make new genes in us so we would have a new, reborn, spiritual nature in our dead spirit. In the new earth, how will wild animals live together with out killing each other? if they are not changed to a new nature of kindness and eat grass, not flesh.? Love to all, Hoffco

Did I not warn you that my screen name begins with the lc letter c?

Paul has made it extremely clear that salvation is predicated upon the faith to obey the law which has been added. Rom. 2:13 That statement is his premise and summary of the doctrine of salvation he pontificates.