It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Jun 19, 2014

R U Too Proud to Let the Lord Help You?

Isn't it awful how the Lord disrespects man's free will so much that He will save the sinner & keep the saved? OSS = Once Saved, Saved!

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (see end of 1 Thes 5)

Look at that, what God will do for the believer:
1) sanctify wholly (not just a little bit),
2) preserve the believer entire (no "whoops, that got by Me"),
3) preserve the believer without blame.

Now when does all this happen?

In the future. If you believe now, in the future you will be wholly sanctified, and preserved.

Objecter: Hol' on dere. Dat is jus' a prayuh or a wish, it don't hardly say it is def'nit.

Oh Yeah? Read on.

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Objecter: "Boo hoo, boo hoo, I refuse to accept this will do it part, 'cause my god is human will. How dare the Lord actually save someone?"

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins!

The catch is that you must trust the Lord Jesus as Savior to become "His people."

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved!
(not "given a shot at it")

Atwood · Jun 19, 2014

Future Rest Is Promised to the Believer in Christ

"if so be that it is a righteous thing with God to recompense affliction to them that afflict you, and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire, rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus: who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all them who believed (because our testimony unto you was believed) in that day. "

The only obedience which saves is obedience to the Gospel:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Those who believed [past] get future rest.
OSS = Once saved, saved.
Believers don't just get a shot at salvation dependent on whether they do this or that. They get salvation.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

To become a His People, only requires that you trust Him. Trust yourself and your eternal destiny into those hands which were pierced for your sins.

newbirth · Jun 19, 2014

Re: R U Too Proud to Let the Lord Help You?

Atwood said:

Isn't it awful how the Lord disrespects man's free will so much that He will save the sinner & keep the saved? OSS = Once Saved, Saved!

Now when does all this happen? when you do this
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.

In the future. If you believe now, in the future you will be wholly sanctified, and preserved.

Objecter: Hol' on dere. Dat is jus' a prayuh or a wish, it don't hardly say it is def'nit.

Oh Yeah? Read on.

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Objecter: "Boo hoo, boo hoo, I refuse to accept this will do it part, 'cause my god is human will. How dare the Lord actually save someone?"

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins!

The catch is that you must trust the Lord Jesus as Savior to become "His people."

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved!
(not "given a shot at it")

So do you disobey the blue ....does it matter since you are OSS ,there is no need to obey because according to you either way you are OSS

kennethcadwell · Jun 19, 2014

I have done another study into this debate and it seems like the words that keep getting lost or misplaced are......may, you shall be, you will be, persevere to the end, hold on to the end, don't let anybody take away, and so forth. That and Jesus teaching to do as He says to do.

This is what they say when put together....Confess Jesus as Lord ( believe in Him ) for salvation, then persevere to the end ( make it through every trial and tribulation in your life with out falling away ) then you are saved.

newbirth · Jun 19, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

I have done another study into this debate and it seems like the words that keep getting lost or misplaced are......may, you shall be, you will be, persevere to the end, hold on to the end, don't let anybody take away, and so forth. That and Jesus teaching to do as He says to do.

This is what they say when put together....Confess Jesus as Lord ( believe in Him ) for salvation, then persevere to the end ( make it through every trial and tribulation in your life with out falling away ) then you are saved.

How is it some people can't see their in their bible?

newbirth · Jun 19, 2014

Re: Future Rest Is Promised to the Believer in Christ

Atwood said:

Is there a difference between his people and his children?
Matthew 5:44-45

[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
[SUP]45 [/SUP]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

nl · Jun 19, 2014

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:24)

It sure sounds like Almighty God can take away good and important things.

Atwood · Jun 19, 2014

Does "Chosen from the Beginning" Effect Security?

OSS = Once Saved, Saved!
(if you are saved, then you are saved, O Rocket Scientist!)

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginningto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We can see that chose is before glory; but some of the other items are not so certain of order to me.

This 2 Thes. passage reminds one of Rom 8:
foreknew > foreordained > called > justified > glorified.
What do you think? Are the steps in 2 Thes
beloved > chose > sanctification > belief > glory?
Where do we insert gospel & "called" in this line?
A time-line of sequence is not immediately apparent in 2 Thes.
and how do they correlate with Rom 8?

But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God
chose you from the beginning to salvation in
sanctification of the Spirit and
belief of the truth: whereunto he
called you through our
gospel, to the obtaining of the
glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Did God
1) love these people, then
2) choose them, then
3) set them apart by the Spirit, then
4) give them the gospel, then
5) call them, then
6) give them belief/faith,
followed by:
7) glorify them in the future?

What do you do with passages like this, of which there are quite a number in the Bible. Being chosen, elect, foreordained/predestined is a Bible fact, though Christians have various explanations of it. We have to put aside what may seem to us to be abstract standards of fairness. Instead, we have to grapple with just what God's word says on the subject.

So far as I know, every reasonable explanation of predestination is compatible with eternal security. There are those who explain predestination as based on God knowing in advance who would believe and also believe in eternal security.

But if you accept any form of predestination, can you deny eternal security? Would God predestine a select group of persons for salvation, then turn around and roast them in the Lake of fire for some other reason?

Things to ponder.

But whatever, it is clear that He who began the good work in the believer will complete it.

know1 · Jun 20, 2014

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

RickyZ said:

You will also be lacking in spiritual revelation if the Spirit of God ain't in there as well. The bible says those who are not of God will not be able to hear the truth. I'm just questioning.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Does Grace Imply an Eternal Beauty Rest Mattress?

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
- 2 Thes 2

Does that sound good to you? Not only eternal life, but eternal comfort. And that through grace, unmerited favor. "Gave us" means gift, given. The comfort is eternal, & it is a gift of grace, unearned, contrary to our merit.

Are we seeing another outrageous interference with human free will here? I mean prophet Paul is led by the Holy Spirit to produce 2 Thes where it the prophet prays that the Son & the Father will comfort and establish in every good work. So it is to be the Lord Himself who establishes the believer in every good work. Did you think that good works were worked up by human free will? Can you excuse the Almighty for helping the believer with his good works? Even for helping the believer at the heart level, the place from which willed matters proceed. Out from the heart come . . . .

The world was once destroyed because the imagination of man's heart was only to do evil continually. And the indication is that after the flood the same was true for natural men, though the Lord promised not to flood the earth again because of this.

But the believer has help for his heart:

comfort your hearts and establish them

Do you suppose that after the prophet Paul was led to pray this prayer, the Lord was going to respond to the prayer He led Paul to pray with a no answer?

Did the Lord proceed to comfort their hearts & establish them in every good work? Will He do less for the rest of believers? What sort of prayers do you suppose that the Lord Jesus & the Holy Spirit pray, on the behalf of the sheep? Will a prayer of the Lord Jesus be denied? He prayed that Peter's faith fail not; do you suppose that He will do less for the rest of the believers, even those who are a part of His body?

Imagine the security of an eternal beauty rest mattress with no lumps. And recall how Eph 3 says He is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we ask or think.

Now I can think of eternal security because the Word of God teaches it plain as the nose on your face. But what would be exceeding abundantly above eternal security, safe in the arms of Jesus?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins,.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

nl said:

You quote a corrupt text.

"and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book."'

Not "the book of life," but "the tree of life."

Christ has paid for everyone's sins. Thus it is reasonable to consider that He has bought everyone a place in the holy city and food from the tree of life. But one must believe in Him to obtain these gifts.

The ending of the verse as you quote it from a corrupt edition says that God will take away his part . . . from the things which are written in this book. Thus the sinner wouldn't havet to go to the Lake of Fire, since it is something written in this book. But you follow a corrupt text.

Here is Comfort's commentary on the Greek text:

According to WH NU, a full rendering is as follows: “And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are written in this book.” This verse was altered in the Greek text created by Erasmus, who did not have the last six verses of Revelation available to him in any Greek manuscript. Consequently, TR has several textual variants in the last six verses of Revelation with no Greek manuscript support.

In this verse Erasmus followed the testimony of some Latin Vulgate manuscript. According to Metzger, some Latin copyist accidentally mistook ligno (“tree”) for libro (“book”) (see TCGNT). However, it is possible that the change in some Vulgate manuscript was deliberate because it makes for a nice turn of phrase: “if anyone takes away from this book, his part in the book of life will be taken away.” However, an eminent promise in Revelation is that the faithful Christian will be allowed to enjoy the tree of life (see 2:7; 22:2, 14).

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Kenneth, I doubt that by this time much has been left out by those who can't believe what God's Word says on eternal security. You are bringing up issues that have been well chewed already. For example, how many times has it been pointed out that

1) those who endure to the end will be saved, refers to believers making it through the tribulation & being delivered from those troubles at Christ's return?

2) At any rate, OSS (once saved, saved!) teaches that all believers do endure to the end.

And the matter about someone taking away your crown (victor's wreath) speaks of rewards, not salvation; different topic. Rewards are earned by good works. Salvation is the free gift of God by grace through faith, apart from works. I can't believe you haven't seen this already posted here.

The Bible clearly teaches the believers are already saved, not just declared saved after a future judgment.

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Beware; you are talking yourself out of the free gift of salvation.
Let go of all human pride in works, all human pride in self-effort endurance,
and rest wholly in the Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
Trust Him now for your eternal destiny.
Just believing that He gives you a shot at salvation is a denial that He is in fact the SAvior.
And the consequences of disbelief are horrible.

know1 · Jun 20, 2014

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

konroh said:

I prefer to believe what the KJB is showing and that they know more than you. If you had revelation knowledge, then I would listen.
I'm not interested in the root, but the fruit.
This is not the case of minute vs. minute. Same word with two different meanings.
I am showing two different words with two different meanings. I don't care if they share the same root, when you graft in another root with that one, you are going to get a plant that will look similar, yet it will be different in some way.
Only the stupid, ignorant, and/or simple would eat the bias garbage you are trying to feed me.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

RickyZ said:

The Bible is a book and the only source of God's word of which I know, that is readily available to men in general. The content of the Bible is vast beyond a lifetime's study; it is more than we need or will ever use.

Now if you have some other source of God's Word, let's see the proof. For example, if you think you have prophecy, then prove it by predicting the future. Tell us who will win the next world series, what the high weather temperature will be in New York City a week from today, something concrete to prove that you are are a prophet.

Otherwise, beware of earning a death penalty for false prophecy, as Deuteronomy says is deserved for such false claims.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Alligator said:

eternally-gratefull said:

I don't think anyone claimed that Mat 28 did not refer to water baptism. Neither does the great commission say what saves in Mat 28. Mark 16 has a rare verse which indicates that if one believes & is baptized he will be saved, but if one doesn't believe, it is damnation. Baptism was left out of the damnation part. It would be true to say if one believes & stands on his head at midnight he will be saved, also if one believes & eats beans he will be saved, because the only essential is believe, as reiterated over & over with nothing added.

Thus logically if you say if A and B then C, that does not prove if A or B is essential or if both have to be there. If you cut off someone's head & spit in his face, he will die. That doesn't prove that spitting in the face is necessary.

On the other hand, though it is no logically necessary, one would wonder why baptism was there is it were not part of the salvation process. Thus Spirit baptism makes sense here, since we know that Spirit baptism is salvific, though not a human work but God's Work which must happen to everyone who believes.

We know that water baptism cannot save, since it is a human work and also that it is not the washing of the flesh that saves.

Audience; ye who read this stuff, going round & round in circles, disproving over & over the works-canards, yet as if we never showed the proof, Alligator keeps snapping away -- may the Lord bless him with salvation.

So audience, put your trust in the Lord Jesus & focus on Him as the Savior, instead of worrying about this or that other issue. Trust Him fully as Savior to handle your eternal destiny. And let it sink in:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

know1 said:

So you believe the KGB? You are a commie! LOL.

Now after you have memorized the Bible from cover to cover & learned it all, then maybe you will be ready for more revelation.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Attention, Rocket Scientists: OSS = once saved, saved!

Good Night Relentless Ones.

Good Night to those who are hardened in denying salvation & the Savior.

Perhaps some day it will dawn on you just what this means:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

Atwood · Jun 20, 2014

Re: R U Too Proud to Let the Lord Help You?

Originally Posted by Atwood

Isn't it awful how the Lord disrespects man's free will so much that He will save the sinner & keep the saved? OSS = Once Saved, Saved!

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (see end of 1 Thes 5)

Look at that, what God will do for the believer:
1) sanctify wholly (not just a little bit),
2) preserve the believer entire (no "whoops, that got by Me"),
3) preserve the believer without blame.

Now when does all this happen? when you do this

It is inevitable when you trust Christ as Savior.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved!

In the future. If you believe now, in the future you will be wholly sanctified, and preserved.

Objecter: Hol' on dere. Dat is jus' a prayuh or a wish, it don't hardly say it is def'nit.

Oh Yeah? Read on.

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you,Who will also do it.

Objecter: "Boo hoo, boo hoo, I refuse to accept this will do it part, 'cause my god is human will. How dare the Lord actually save someone?"

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins!

The catch is that you must trust the Lord Jesus as Savior to become "His people."

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved!
(not "given a shot at it")

newbirth said:

The love of Christ constrains me.

Kerry · Jun 20, 2014

It's like a timex it just keeps on tickin, When the real world proves different.

Alligator · Jun 20, 2014

Atwood said:

Alligator said:

You want me to give you an example where someone cleansed another person from sin? For once I wish you guys would pay attention to what I say. I have never said or implied that individual can cleanse another individual from sin. Did Phillip cleanse the eunuch from sin just because he Baptised him. Of course not, that 'a ridiculous. Did Naaman cleanse himself from leopracy just because he dipped himself in the Jordan ? Hardly, it was all God but he used human agents to administer baptism.
Why does Acts 2:38 give you guys so much trouble? Some scriptures are so simple they don't need interpretation. Acts 2:38 does not conflict with other scriptures as you are trying to make it. Rather it complements other scriptures. Y

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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