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Yes, there are verses that say were are justified by faith. They are not any verses that says we are justified by faith alone.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 easily, plainly, understandably settles the issue. But James 2:24 is one of the more viciously attacked verses of the bible.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:24 easily, plainly, understandably settles the issue. But James 2:24 is one of the more viciously attacked verses of the bible.
One is in and remains in a state of disobedience until he.....obeys.
Obedience is the only cure for disobedience.
The problem is, those that support "faith only" want to be saved while they are in a disobedient state then sometime after being saved they can be obedient. They do this to try and get works AFTER salvation but even AFTER salvation works are necessary to remain in a saved position.
Obedience is the only cure for disobedience.
The problem is, those that support "faith only" want to be saved while they are in a disobedient state then sometime after being saved they can be obedient. They do this to try and get works AFTER salvation but even AFTER salvation works are necessary to remain in a saved position.
E
I can finally agree with seabass. They can not both be right.
James says true faith produces work. Mere belief (lack of any true faith) will be worthless. In which case james agrees with paul. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast. And in romans, Where he says if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to BOAST ABOUT. But in both eph and romans we see that the end result of our faith (and salvation) is a work which is produced by that faith.
You either believe in faith alone in the work of Christ. Or you believe in faith in self and your many works. there is no in between.
James says true faith produces work. Mere belief (lack of any true faith) will be worthless. In which case james agrees with paul. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast. And in romans, Where he says if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to BOAST ABOUT. But in both eph and romans we see that the end result of our faith (and salvation) is a work which is produced by that faith.
You either believe in faith alone in the work of Christ. Or you believe in faith in self and your many works. there is no in between.
E
And your point would be in error.
If you had the gift offered to you, and you trusted the giver. You already have the gift. it is yours. nothing else has to be done. The work is completed BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE GIFT.
This is salvation. God gave you the ticket to heaven based on his work. The work we do is a byproduct of this gift having been received, but the work did not save us.
Remember, We do not have to "get on the train" to get to heaven, God raises us up where we are, whether alive or dead, on the last day.
God offers us the gift, if we recieve it in faith. we have it. On that day, God will come get us where we are..
it is ALL a work of God. Not of our works "lest anyone should boast!"
If you had the gift offered to you, and you trusted the giver. You already have the gift. it is yours. nothing else has to be done. The work is completed BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE GIFT.
This is salvation. God gave you the ticket to heaven based on his work. The work we do is a byproduct of this gift having been received, but the work did not save us.
Remember, We do not have to "get on the train" to get to heaven, God raises us up where we are, whether alive or dead, on the last day.
God offers us the gift, if we recieve it in faith. we have it. On that day, God will come get us where we are..
it is ALL a work of God. Not of our works "lest anyone should boast!"
E
false gospel is of works. because they THINK they are obedient, and thus ok with God. like the pharisees, they are blind to their own sin and can not even see it.
Faith alone not only want to be obedient, but understand ONLY BY the POWER OF GO in our lives, do we have the ability to be obedient.
if you do not believe this, you not only have no faith in God. your not faith alone..your faith is STILL in yourself, even though you may claim faith in Christ.
2
if you had faith in self you will not be saved
if you have faith in the word of God to do it by grace
you will be saved
my grace is sufficent for you.
faith without works is dead.
the works must be his spirit working in you to keep the Sabbath to honor your father and mother and to love God with all the heart and soul and mind.
if you have faith in the word of God to do it by grace
you will be saved
my grace is sufficent for you.
faith without works is dead.
the works must be his spirit working in you to keep the Sabbath to honor your father and mother and to love God with all the heart and soul and mind.
E
this is just another way to say faith in self.
people lie to themselves say they have faith in God thats why they work, and their work saves them. but this is not true, they are depending on self to do those works, and taking a part in saving self. and NOT allowing God to save them.
My Bible says:
God save me
God justified me
God adopted me
God gave me his inheritance
God rescued me
God sanctified me
God raised me from death to life
God washed me
God renews me
God came into me
God restored me
God loved me
God will raise me
nothing about self in there, any work you add, you are saving self and not allowing God to save you.
people lie to themselves say they have faith in God thats why they work, and their work saves them. but this is not true, they are depending on self to do those works, and taking a part in saving self. and NOT allowing God to save them.
My Bible says:
God save me
God justified me
God adopted me
God gave me his inheritance
God rescued me
God sanctified me
God raised me from death to life
God washed me
God renews me
God came into me
God restored me
God loved me
God will raise me
nothing about self in there, any work you add, you are saving self and not allowing God to save you.
The "work of Christ" does not operate in a vacuum.
Faith is an active dynamic. Faith is a "doing principle."
If I have faith in a parachute when I jump out of a plane it means I pull the chord. Those who have faith in God likewise do what God tells them to do because they know that the end of such doing is life.
Noah had faith in God which was the dynamic which produced an ark. Abraham had faith in God which was the dynamic by which he obeyed and left his dwelling place. A genuine Christian has faith in God which is the dynamic by which they are "doers of the word." God counts faith as righteousness because God looks at the inward parts of a man, the heart. A good heart is a faithful heart. It is the heart which matters because everything else flows out of the heart. Men are not saved by outer reformation but rather by inward reformation. God changes hearts and the changed hearts then produce good fruit.
There is no such things as "faith alone in the work of Christ" apart from being a "doer of the word." Jesus was a propitiatory sin offering by which we can approach God seeking reconciliation. The death of Christ is something we put to use by doing something, it is not passive.
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
The foundation of Abraham's faith was the grace of God. The flesh of Abraham served to no good end apart from the grace of God. It is through grace or the leading of God by which Abraham was accounted righteous. In other words Abraham followed the blueprint set forth by God and it was through that implementation that he found favour.
Noah utilised the blueprint set forth by God (instruction on how to build the ark) by a genuine faith and it was through that he was accounted righteous (for he yielded to God). Noah could not boast because the source of his salvation was God's blueprint rather than some blueprint of his own. God is the author and finisher of our faith through His grace.
Faith produced words because faith is a work for faith is an active moving dynamic principle. The works do not come after faith but are produced in conjunction with faith. A burning fire produces smoke. Faith produces works. Faith produces arks. Faith produces obedience. Faith is wholehearted trust in God necessitating obedience.
"Faith Alone" and "Grace Alone" are misnomers produced in the minds of men and have no bearing to reality.
Faith is an active dynamic. Faith is a "doing principle."
If I have faith in a parachute when I jump out of a plane it means I pull the chord. Those who have faith in God likewise do what God tells them to do because they know that the end of such doing is life.
Noah had faith in God which was the dynamic which produced an ark. Abraham had faith in God which was the dynamic by which he obeyed and left his dwelling place. A genuine Christian has faith in God which is the dynamic by which they are "doers of the word." God counts faith as righteousness because God looks at the inward parts of a man, the heart. A good heart is a faithful heart. It is the heart which matters because everything else flows out of the heart. Men are not saved by outer reformation but rather by inward reformation. God changes hearts and the changed hearts then produce good fruit.
There is no such things as "faith alone in the work of Christ" apart from being a "doer of the word." Jesus was a propitiatory sin offering by which we can approach God seeking reconciliation. The death of Christ is something we put to use by doing something, it is not passive.
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
The foundation of Abraham's faith was the grace of God. The flesh of Abraham served to no good end apart from the grace of God. It is through grace or the leading of God by which Abraham was accounted righteous. In other words Abraham followed the blueprint set forth by God and it was through that implementation that he found favour.
Noah utilised the blueprint set forth by God (instruction on how to build the ark) by a genuine faith and it was through that he was accounted righteous (for he yielded to God). Noah could not boast because the source of his salvation was God's blueprint rather than some blueprint of his own. God is the author and finisher of our faith through His grace.
Faith produced words because faith is a work for faith is an active moving dynamic principle. The works do not come after faith but are produced in conjunction with faith. A burning fire produces smoke. Faith produces works. Faith produces arks. Faith produces obedience. Faith is wholehearted trust in God necessitating obedience.
"Faith Alone" and "Grace Alone" are misnomers produced in the minds of men and have no bearing to reality.
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E
here is proof positive of how one has to save himself.
The bible says God pulled my chord and saved me (on the cross). Skinski says he did (so he saved himself)
when are people going to realise, you can do every religious work ever commanded by God and you will still have not done enough work to make up for one sin, that sin would still condemn you to hell.
when are people going to allow God to save them, and stop trying to save themselves?
I know I know. it is agonizing to think i can do absolutely nothing to help myself. save myself. so say Hey God, I do not see you, I have not seen you, I did not see your son, before or after he died, all I have is hear say written in your word. I know I am a sinner, something deep down inside tells me this, I have faith you are real, and you are who you say you are, I have faith your son did die, and he died not for himself but me, I have faith only by his death and his suffering for my sin can I possibly be saved. so god. although I can not see any of this, i trust that it is true, so God, save me, based not your promise and your love and your character.
oh the concept.. Stand still and let God save you, Change you, Bring you up from the pits of hell and despair. To admit you are totally helpless.
"Woe is me God. Thats to much to ask. I can't do it.. " as we see so plainly in the post from skinski.
And people wonder why it is such a narrow Got, and we have to agonize (greek agonizomi - to strive) to enter it. It is to hard for so many people. because they can not get "self" out of the way.
The bible says God pulled my chord and saved me (on the cross). Skinski says he did (so he saved himself)
when are people going to realise, you can do every religious work ever commanded by God and you will still have not done enough work to make up for one sin, that sin would still condemn you to hell.
when are people going to allow God to save them, and stop trying to save themselves?
I know I know. it is agonizing to think i can do absolutely nothing to help myself. save myself. so say Hey God, I do not see you, I have not seen you, I did not see your son, before or after he died, all I have is hear say written in your word. I know I am a sinner, something deep down inside tells me this, I have faith you are real, and you are who you say you are, I have faith your son did die, and he died not for himself but me, I have faith only by his death and his suffering for my sin can I possibly be saved. so god. although I can not see any of this, i trust that it is true, so God, save me, based not your promise and your love and your character.
oh the concept.. Stand still and let God save you, Change you, Bring you up from the pits of hell and despair. To admit you are totally helpless.
"Woe is me God. Thats to much to ask. I can't do it.. " as we see so plainly in the post from skinski.
And people wonder why it is such a narrow Got, and we have to agonize (greek agonizomi - to strive) to enter it. It is to hard for so many people. because they can not get "self" out of the way.
James NEVER said our salvation is "not of works".
James said "by works a man is justified not by faith only" James settles the issue.
In Rom 4:5 when Paul said "worketh not" the type works Paul it talking about are works of merit. James is talking about obedience. So Paul and James are talking about two different types of works.
In Rom 4:5 Paul is contrasting works of merit to obedience just as he does in Rom 10:3. Until faith only advocates understand that all owrks are not the same and Paul was NOT excluding all types of works, they will never understand those passages. In most cases it is simple as they just refuse to understand the differences in works.
You posted You either believe in faith alone in the work of Christ. Or you believe in faith in self and your many works. there is no in between.
A false dichotomy. I have not seen anyone here say their own works can save them. But the bible does teach doing God's works/doing Gods righteous does save, Acts 10:35; Rom 10:3; 1 Jn 2:29; 1 Jn 3:7,10; Rom 6:16
So in order to defend the false man-made teaching of faith only, you have only been able to;
1) rewriting James 2:24
2) present false arguments about your opponents.
James said "by works a man is justified not by faith only" James settles the issue.
In Rom 4:5 when Paul said "worketh not" the type works Paul it talking about are works of merit. James is talking about obedience. So Paul and James are talking about two different types of works.
In Rom 4:5 Paul is contrasting works of merit to obedience just as he does in Rom 10:3. Until faith only advocates understand that all owrks are not the same and Paul was NOT excluding all types of works, they will never understand those passages. In most cases it is simple as they just refuse to understand the differences in works.
You posted You either believe in faith alone in the work of Christ. Or you believe in faith in self and your many works. there is no in between.
A false dichotomy. I have not seen anyone here say their own works can save them. But the bible does teach doing God's works/doing Gods righteous does save, Acts 10:35; Rom 10:3; 1 Jn 2:29; 1 Jn 3:7,10; Rom 6:16
So in order to defend the false man-made teaching of faith only, you have only been able to;
1) rewriting James 2:24
2) present false arguments about your opponents.