It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Rom 11 speaks of gentiles collectively, using the singular thou to refer to Gentiles as the group the Lord is primarily working with today for spiritual blessing. Rom 9-11 deals with the future of Israel, how God now is working with Gentiles primarily, but will go back to Israel in the future. 11:22 is not addressed to specific Christians or believers. Neither does the text say that the olive tree is the state of salvation nor eternal life. It makes sense to me as the sphere of God's blessing. The passage is figurative and must be understood in the light of non-figurative propositional teaching, like "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." When you find a passage like this, generally the interpretation is governed by something which follows in context, like Heb 6:9. Rom 11:29 follows & says:

For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of. Though the passage seems difficult, it may not be interpreted to contradict 11:29.

"But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry; if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them. For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee. Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God’s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"

For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer;
He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And this is my covenant unto them,
When I shall take away their sins.

As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

 

[Atwood]

kenny, people will eat stuff that a billy goat won't eat, before they admit that what they have been taught all there life is a lie.

The passage continues to 11:29, which is no lie.

For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer;
He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And this is my covenant unto them,
When I shall take away their sins.


As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

 

[Atwood]

Originally Posted by Atwood

Kenneth, I urge you to re-examine this claim. There is nothing in either Rom 6 or Rev 20 to support that notion. Also, I wonder if you have ever actually read the book of Revelation. If you are studying Rom 6, that is great. I wouldn't accuse you of adding to God's word in the Rev 22 sense, as you didn't make a false quote, but you are adding something not in the Bible to speak of losing salvation. Do a concordance check: Do the words lose & salvation ever even occur in one verse?

Indeed, all will be judged for works. Judgment is generally by works, while salvation is always by grace through faith, works excluded. Salvation is what we sinners need because of our evil works.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

I shall dwell in the House of the LORD forever.
How how could King David say that one?

Neither do the words once saved always saved appear in the bible. The bible shows how we are to achieve salvation.

Kenneth, where does the Bible say "achieve salvation"??? It is by grace not achievement. I didn't start the thread on OSAS. I say it is OSS = Once saved, saved. Saved appears; salvation appears, Savior appears. What never appears is "given chance," "chance for Heaven," "Chance-giver."

Here is what appears:
"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

The words eternal salvation are in the bible, but what we don't agree on is when that is rewarded.

Rewarded, Kenneth? Vot der Dumboozle! Salvation is a free gift, not a reward. Rewards are for works done after you get saved.

The free gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those who believe OSAS look at an immediate saving, those that do not believe in OSAS look at the scriptures from Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, and James about reward of salvation comes at the end.

Kenneth, don't make things up. The evidence has been presented from many places in the Bible. Did you look at it? Salvation comes in 3 tenses: past, present, and future. And there is no such thing as "the reward of salvation" in any of those prophets. What you say is simply false, and you quote no one. The 3 tenses of salvation are not mutually exclusive, all of them are true. Take Eph 2: For by grace you are having been saved (perfect tense in Greek, referring to something initialed in the past that continues into the present).

Wider context in Eph 2

"but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive [past] together with Christ
(by grace you are having been saved [perfect tense in Greek, referring to something initialed in the past that continues into the present])
and raised us up with him and made [past tense]
us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come [ref to future] he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace you are having been saved through faith;"

And what does Jesus say in the scriptures about His second coming. He says He comes quickly and His reward is with Him.

Salvation is not a reward, but there are rewards. Christians will be judged at the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ, where they will receive rewards and/or suffer loss of reward. Actually except for God's grace, our "reward" would be the Lake of Fire. That is what we deserve.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Overcomer = Believer = Eternally Secure

riginally Posted by Atwood

There are great promises of eternal security to the Overcomer;
Overcomer = Believer in the Lord Jesus.
1st let us consider the tragic consequences of unbelief. Is it fear (of sin, of not having self-righteousness) that hinders your trusting Him for your eternal destiny?

'I will never blot his name out of the book of life." "For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith."

He who overcomes shall inherit these things; "But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death."

Must you insist on continuing not to trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal security? So sad!

THE OVERCOMER = THE BELIEVER

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of Godovercomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and
he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and
God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and
he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes;
and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he who sits on the throne said, Behold,
I make all things new. And he says, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said to me, They are come to pass.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and
I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.
And he who hears, let him say, Come.
And he who is athirst, let him come;
he who will,
let him take the water of life freely. (at end of Rev)



Good afternoon SeaBass,

You cannot be a Christian without believing in (trusting) Christ as Savior (not just one who gives you a chance at salvation).

Every Christian is a believer and thus an overcomer.

I hope I see you under the Tree of Life.

Atwood, just to let you know, I do believe that the Bible teaches eternal security. However, I have yet to find a single verse that supports unconditional eternal security.

Gal, you speak double-talk. You may as well speak of temporary eternal security or insecure security. And it is noted that you prove nothing from scripture; that was all you.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

 

[Kerry]

The passage continues to 11:29, which is no lie.

For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer;
He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And this is my covenant unto them,
When I shall take away their sins.


As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

The nation not the people. Or is God gonna bring back the 6 million that Hitler killed? When God promised that they would become a nation.

 

[Atwood]

The nation not the people. Or is God gonna bring back the 6 million that Hitler killed? When God promised that they would become a nation.

It is appointed to man once to die, whether by Hitler or choking on a chicken gizzard. I think that actually Hitler helped fulfill the national revival; Jewish persons were content to be Germans, but Germany would not let them and drove them back to the Land of Israel by force of murder. And yet, Hitler is probably less of a persecutor than the Beast of Revelation (see ch 12).

I am generally averse to newspaper exegesis, but surely the return of Israel is a sign to this generation.

Now who will bring back what, 70 million babies murdered in the dear old USA, not to mention the rest of the world?

 

[Kerry]

You were talking about God's promises to Israel. The Pharisee's banked on those promises and found out something different. Not that God did not hold true to His promise. But they thought they had eternal security because they were the seed of Abraham. Faith wrongly placed.

Faith in the cross guarantees eternal security, but if that faith is placed in what you do. The eternal security goes away.

 

[Kerry]

We can only be secured be secured by our faith in the work of the cross and not that of our own. because if it's our own we don't need the cross and God will only accept faith in the cross anything else is self righteousness and God cannot and will not honor it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once again I say we do not work/earn salvation. But works do go hand and hand with salvation, and the works one produces even though does not give you salvation it can have you lose it.

If you do not believe this then take Romans chapter 6 and Revelations chapter 20 out of your bibles. Oh yeah that's right God said do not take away or add anything to my words. All will be judged by their works.

this makes no sense period.

works can not save you. but can cause you to lose it.

those are contradicting thoughts.

if work can help you lose it. then works MUST be used to help save you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You were talking about God's promises to Israel. The Pharisee's banked on those promises and found out something different. Not that God did not hold true to His promise. But they thought they had eternal security because they were the seed of Abraham. Faith wrongly placed.

Faith in the cross guarantees eternal security, but if that faith is placed in what you do. The eternal security goes away.

You either have faith in Christ and what he promised, or you do not.

You can not have faith in Christ and self. they are contradicting things. If you have faith in Christ. Your actions will show it. If you have faith in self. your actions will show it.

the sad part is. the actions may be the same, thus we come to the dividing point. What is the motivator.

The jews thought they were saved by their works. Their actions and motivations proved it (especially when Christ came) The apostles had faith in Christ. Their actions and motivations proved it.

Faith without works is dead, Because it is faith in self. not God. Those who have faiht in God WILL WORK and have actions and thoughts which prove this faith.

Eternal security is based on the power of God and him alone. If you have faith in self. you will not and can not believe in eternal security. Because in your own power. You will NEVER live up to Gods standard. So you have to do as the jew, and fool yourself into thinking you are. But still realise, You may not.

 

[Sinnner]

Originally Posted by Atwood

Kenneth, I urge you to re-examine this claim. There is nothing in either Rom 6 or Rev 20 to support that notion. Also, I wonder if you have ever actually read the book of Revelation. If you are studying Rom 6, that is great. I wouldn't accuse you of adding to God's word in the Rev 22 sense, as you didn't make a false quote, but you are adding something not in the Bible to speak of losing salvation. Do a concordance check: Do the words lose & salvation ever even occur in one verse?

Indeed, all will be judged for works. Judgment is generally by works, while salvation is always by grace through faith, works excluded. Salvation is what we sinners need because of our evil works.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

I shall dwell in the House of the LORD forever.
How how could King David say that one?



Kenneth, where does the Bible say "achieve salvation"??? It is by grace not achievement. I didn't start the thread on OSAS. I say it is OSS = Once saved, saved. Saved appears; salvation appears, Savior appears. What never appears is "given chance," "chance for Heaven," "Chance-giver."

Here is what appears:
"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."



Rewarded, Kenneth? Vot der Dumboozle! Salvation is a free gift, not a reward. Rewards are for works done after you get saved.

The free gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.



Kenneth, don't make things up. The evidence has been presented from many places in the Bible. Did you look at it? Salvation comes in 3 tenses: past, present, and future. And there is no such thing as "the reward of salvation" in any of those prophets. What you say is simply false, and you quote no one. The 3 tenses of salvation are not mutually exclusive, all of them are true. Take Eph 2: For by grace you are having been saved (perfect tense in Greek, referring to something initialed in the past that continues into the present).

Wider context in Eph 2

"but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive [past] together with Christ
(by grace you are having been saved [perfect tense in Greek, referring to something initialed in the past that continues into the present])
and raised us up with him and made [past tense]
us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come [ref to future] he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace you are having been saved through faith;"



Salvation is not a reward, but there are rewards. Christians will be judged at the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ, where they will receive rewards and/or suffer loss of reward. Actually except for God's grace, our "reward" would be the Lake of Fire. That is what we deserve.

The promise of eternal life is given at the end. This is clear.

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "D EATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15:51-58 NASB)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The promise of eternal life is given at the end. This is clear.

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "D EATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15:51-58 NASB)

This is not according to scripture.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Has given (past tense)

Have (Present tense.)

Nothing future about it.

 

[Sinnner]

This is not according to scripture.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Has given (past tense)

Have (Present tense.)

Nothing future about it.

Um, that was a scripture. It clearly states that we put it on at the last trumpet. We may currently have it reserved for us but we do not have it yet. It's at the last trumpet. Did you read the SCRIPTURE that I posted? I found it in the bible.

 

[Sinnner]

You assume that it means past. The scriptures I posted give a specific time that it is received. This should close the case. In court you guys just lost. But let's see you twist this one. Itl be interesting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You assume that it means past. The scriptures I posted give a specific time that it is received. This should close the case. In court you guys just lost. But let's see you twist this one. Itl be interesting.

No you lost.

You posted the ressurection. Thats all.

Scripture can not contradict itself. And who cares what the flawed court of men think? They have been wrong about spiritual things forever . you going to trust them or God?

If you have no hope of eternal life (as John Said) you have no faith in God.

No faith in God. No salvation. End of story.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Um, that was a scripture. It clearly states that we put it on at the last trumpet. We may currently have it reserved for us but we do not have it yet. It's at the last trumpet. Did you read the SCRIPTURE that I posted? I found it in the bible.

Yeah I did. Did you read the scripture I posted? How about John 3: 16. Has "present tense" eternal life. How about John 6? Will never die, live forever, HAS eternal life. (concerning spiritual life with God)

far too many passages refute the thought that we cannot be assured eternal life until after we die.

 

[Sinnner]

Yeah I did. Did you read the scripture I posted? How about John 3: 16. Has "present tense" eternal life. How about John 6? Will never die, live forever, HAS eternal life. (concerning spiritual life with God)

far too many passages refute the thought that we cannot be assured eternal life until after we die.

I didn't lose. Anyone can see what that scripture says. If your osas doctrine were true the bible would be 70% shorter.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Outrageous Eternal Security Prayers?

It has been posted how the Lord Jesus prayed for Peter that Peter's faith not fail. And it has been observed how the Father is not going to say No to an intercessory prayer of the Lord Jesus.

Now we have a similar prayer in 2 Thes, where prophet Paul is led by the Spirit to pray for the Thessalonian Christians as follows:

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

the prayer is for these...
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

But while we notice that establishment here in every good work is God's doing in the Christian, we would not neglect the first part of the verse where we are told that God through grace gave the believers eternal comfort.

God is doing the comforting and stablishing you are doing the work...go back to vs 15
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.(KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]comfort your hearts with all comfort, and help you in every good thing you say and do.(TLB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.(NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Comfort and encourage your hearts and strengthen them [make them steadfast and keep them unswerving] in every good work and word.(AMP)

As always choose one line to suit your purpose...
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits[SUP][b][/SUP] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings[SUP][c][/SUP] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, [SUP]17 [/SUP]encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.


Is this why you are helpless? you have not been strengthened in every good deed and word?

Now consider your first line...Christ prayed for Peter's faith not to fail...So go to 2 Peter1 and he will tell you what to add to your faith that you will never fall.(that is the teachings passed on to you)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't lose. Anyone can see what that scripture says. If your osas doctrine were true the bible would be 70% shorter.

wow. ok. lets ignore half the bible..

thanks But I will listen to God. not you. Your name is sinner. when are you going to cry out to God and ask him to give you the gift of eternal life? and stop being dead in your sin?

 

[Cassian]

I don't recall you answering my question as to whether or not you are advocating universalism, as didn't you claim that everyone is raised to an incorruptible body? (no scripture for that one).

I certainly don't expect you to trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior, the guarantor of eternal security, because I say it.

So setting aside references to theogians & faith in denomination, take a look at scripture. I post in case anyone in the audience hasn't seen this, as you already have had much posted to you. The following is just a sample:

"the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

1 Thes 5 end:

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

I will dwell in the House of the LORD forever.



I see your Calvin, & I raise you a dead-denomination! Now Dear Cassian,
the Word of God is not tired rhetoric. Is not His word like a fire, & like a hammer that breaketh the bones into pieces! A ha am mer, a ha am mer that break eth the rocks. Does anyone in the audience think the following is tired rhetoric?

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Yes, same old rhetoric. Citing scripture is not rhetoric, but your citations have nothing to do with "eternal security" such as this one.....He that overcometh shall inherit these things;. We know from scripture that has been posted repeatedly, but denied by you, that a believer can lose faith. Many believers will become unbelievers thus NEVER inherit the promise for believers. God does not force a believer to overcome.

I know it fits your Calvinistic/predestination theology, but it cannot be found in scripture. No matter how much you twist and dismiss most of scripture, ES, OSAS, OOS just cannot be made to fit scripture. It has never been there from the beginning, and only exists because Calvin devised a whole different theological paradigm and imposed it upon scripture. This seems to be the end result of all man made theories, of which you hold several. Isolating certain texts while ignoring most of scripture does not make for good theology, even though it may support errant interpretations.