Is your denomination misleading you?

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Billyd

Billyd

Senior Member
#122
May 8, 2014
5,202
1,609
113
#122
crossnote said:
I guess you never heard of the New Covenant? Joshua kept the Sabbath as they were under the Mosaic Covenant.
Church=ekklessia=called out one.
Assembly=synogogue= assembly.
Church is not biblical? Look it up in the Greek.

Heb 3&4 not referring to our rest in Jesus?
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
(Heb 3:14)

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
(Heb 4:1-3)

It was not the same Gospel, it was the same God, who justified the same way...by faith.
Here is the Gospel by which if believed we enter His rest (and cease from our works of merit)

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1Co 15:1-4)
Click to expand...
Crossnote, I suggest that you look at all the definitions to [SIZE=+1]ejkklhsiva[/SIZE] from the Greek. I included them for you. Then read Matthew 16:18. Interesting!

[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD][SIZE=+1]ejkklhsiva [/SIZE]Ekklesia (ek-klay-see'-ah);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1577
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


  1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
    1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
    2. the assembly of the Israelites
    3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
    4. in a Christian sense
      1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
      2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
      3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
      4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
      5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Word Usage and Count[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]church [/TD]
[TD]115 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]assembly [/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#123
Sep 4, 2013
30,603
6,809
113
#123
Considering how many folks are supporting Saturday Sabbath............WHY EXACTLY are they here posting on the internet? Should they NOT BE worshiping God in His Rest?
 
Scuba

Scuba

Banned
#124
Jun 26, 2014
1,011
17
0
#124
p_rehbein said:
Considering how many folks are supporting Saturday Sabbath............WHY EXACTLY are they here posting on the internet? Should they NOT BE worshiping God in His Rest?
Click to expand...
Do not judge regarding Sabbath observance. That's the meaning of Col. 2:16
 
P

phil112

Guest
#126
#126
Scuba said:
Do not judge regarding Sabbath observance. That's the meaning of Col. 2:16
Click to expand...
Typical law-breaker. You insist on telling people to keep the law that is impossible to do. You do exactly what Christ said in Matthew 23:4, and you quote new testament scripture that you are able to twist to suit yourself.
While you're in the new testament look up Romans 14:5.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#127
#127
Romans 14:5-8 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to, the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#128
Sep 4, 2013
30,603
6,809
113
#128
kennethcadwell said:
Romans 14:5-8 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to, the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Click to expand...
..............sigh.........there you go using Scripture again........geeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeeee...... :)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#129
#129
What is wrong with using scripture when it answers the question. It makes it clear that as long as you are observing the day to our Lord it does not matter what day it is on.

p_rehbein said:
..............sigh.........there you go using Scripture again........geeeeeeezzzzzeeeeeeee...... :)
Click to expand...
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#130
Sep 4, 2013
30,603
6,809
113
#130
kennethcadwell said:
What is wrong with using scripture when it answers the question. It makes it clear that as long as you are observing the day to our Lord it does not matter what day it is on.
Click to expand...
uh, you didn't notice the :)..........my comment was tongue in cheek.......I was AGREEING with you.......
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#133
#133
Well any way back to the topic. Is my denomination misleading.....No because I don't belong to a denomination any more....I belong to our Lord Jesus Christ..............:D
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#134
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#134
phil112 said:
Typical law-breaker. You insist on telling people to keep the law that is impossible to do. You do exactly what Christ said in Matthew 23:4, and you quote new testament scripture that you are able to twist to suit yourself.
While you're in the new testament look up Romans 14:5.
Click to expand...
Matt 23:4 is about how people kept the letter of the law only, and these scripture verses speak for keeping the law in spirit and truth. Are you doing an about face, and saying it is OK to try to keep the law?

Romans 14:5 is about keeping Sabbath, but saying God isn't interested in the way we name days so we can name the day. I read posts where you put down anyone who keeps Sabbath. So what gives, now?
 
Scuba

Scuba

Banned
#135
Jun 26, 2014
1,011
17
0
#135
kennethcadwell said:
Romans 14:5-8 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to, the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Click to expand...
You are reading Sabbath into the verses but it's not there. The context is about opinions of man, the seventh day Sabbath is not an opinion of man. The context is about people who believe they should eat only vegetables and about fasting on certain days. One man esteems one day above another day for fasting. This was an issue in their day.

Matthew 9:14 Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?”

Mark 2:18 The disciples of John and of the Pharisees were fasting. Then they came and said to Him, “Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?”

Some would even use fasting as a means to be better than other people.

Luke 18:11-12 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

All these things are rooted in the opinions of man and are not a commandment of God.

Now lets go one step further. Lets say God was saying that it's up to us whether we esteem Sunday for sacred assembly or Monday or Tuesday or Saturday. Lets say I'm off on Tuesday so lets tell all the church members we are gathering on Tuesday. But now Betty is off on Monday so she wants Monday to be the day for sacred assembly. But now the Pastor, he sees the Sabbath truth so he is trying get his congregation to be of one mind in the will of God. Where is the unity in the will of God if the day for sacred assembly is up for grabs. How can the gifts of God be utilized if everyone is meeting on different days. What if your boss is a non-believer and forces you to work on the day someone picks for sacred assembly. If it's not the seventh day Sabbath your boss in not violating God's commandment so he will not have to stand before God to give an account when he didn't let you have the day off for sacred assembly. But if he forces you to work on the Sabbath God can convict him and find him guilty.

 
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K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#136
#136
This scripture applies to all that Christians believe in and follow. When it comes to how you handle certain days, as long as it is observed to the Lord you are doing right by that day no matter if it is Saturday, Sunday, or any other day of the week.
Plus you must see in scriptures that the coming together of an assembly only has to consist of 2 or more. Not the whole congregation of one church ( denomination ). If Betty wants to use Monday, and gets another person to come and worship God with her she is still doing God's will.

To many people fall to the notion that you have to go to church ( building ) when they tell you what day and time to come, but our Lord Jesus said where two or more are gathered I am there amongst them. The true church is the believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior all over the world. Not the denomination you belong to, building you go to, or day you chose to worship on makes the true church.
Scuba said:
You are reading Sabbath into the verses but it's not there. The context is about opinions of man, the seventh day Sabbath is not an opinion of man. The context is about people who believe they should eat only vegetables and about fasting a certain days. One man esteems one day above another day for fasting. This was an issue in their day.

Matthew 9:14

Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, “Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?”

Mark 2:18

The disciples of John and of the Pharisees were fasting. Then they came and said to Him, “Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?”

Some would even use fasting as a means to be better than other people.

Luke 18:11-12

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

All these things are rooted in the opinions of man and are not a commandment of God.

Now lets go one step further. Lets say God was saying that it's up to us whether we esteem Sunday for sacred assembly or Monday or Tuesday or Saturday. Lets say I'm of on Tuesday so lets tell all the church members we are gathering on Tuesday. But now Betty is off on Monday so she wants Monday to be the day for sacred assembly. But now the Pastor, he sees the Sabbath truth so he is trying get his congregation to be of one mind in the will of God. Where is the unity in the will of God if the day for sacred assembly is up for grabs. How can the gifts of God be untilized if everyone is meeting on different days. What if your boss is a non-believer and forces you to work on the day someone picks for sacred assembly. If it's not the seventh day Sabbath your boss in not violating God's commandment so he will not have to stand before God to give an account when he didn't let you have the day off for sacred assembly. But if he forces you to work on the Sabbath God can convict him and find him guilty.
Click to expand...
 
Scuba

Scuba

Banned
#137
Jun 26, 2014
1,011
17
0
#137
kennethcadwell said:
This scripture applies to all that Christians believe in and follow. When it comes to how you handle certain days, as long as it is observed to the Lord you are doing right by that day no matter if it is Saturday, Sunday, or any other day of the week.
Plus you must see in scriptures that the coming together of an assembly only has to consist of 2 or more. Not the whole congregation of one church ( denomination ). If Betty wants to use Monday, and gets another person to come and worship God with her she is still doing God's will.

To many people fall to the notion that you have to go to church ( building ) when they tell you what day and time to come, but our Lord Jesus said where two or more are gathered I am there amongst them. The true church is the believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior all over the world. Not the denomination you belong to, building you go to, or day you chose to worship on makes the true church.
Click to expand...
Here is what God says...

Leviticus 23:3 You may work for six days. But the seventh day is a day of worship, a day when you don’t work, a holy assembly. Don’t do any work. It is the Lord’s day of worship wherever you live.

The new testament church follows God.

Luke 23:56 Then they went back to the city and prepared spices and perfumes. But on the day of worship they rested according to the commandment.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

All of Romans 14 is based on the opinions of man, doubtful things and weak believers, not a commandment of God.
 
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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#138
Sep 4, 2013
30,603
6,809
113
#138
Scuba said:
Here is what God says...

Leviticus 23:3 You may work for six days. But the seventh day is a day of worship, a day when you don’t work, a holy assembly. Don’t do any work. It is the Lord’s day of worship wherever you live.

The new testament church follows God.

Luke 23:56 Then they went back to the city and prepared spices and perfumes. But on the day of worship they rested according to the commandment.

Acts 13:44 On the next day of worship, almost the whole city gathered to hear the Lord’s word.

All of Romans 14 is based on the opinions of man, doubtful things and weak believers, not a commandment of God.
Click to expand...
Seriously? So the Apostle Paul was NOT OF GOD? He was NOT A MESSENGER FROM GOD? He WAS NOT ESPECIALLY CHOSEN BY GOD TO BE A MESSENGER?

Speaking of "weak believers............."

I've read JUST ENOUGH of your dribble to realize that my "Ignore List" needs to be updated...........excuse me while I attend to that............goodness.............
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#139
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#139
Billyd said:
Crossnote, I suggest that you look at all the definitions to [SIZE=+1]ejkklhsiva[/SIZE] from the Greek. I included them for you. Then read Matthew 16:18. Interesting!

[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD][SIZE=+1]ejkklhsiva [/SIZE]Ekklesia (ek-klay-see'-ah);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1577
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


  1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
    1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
    2. the assembly of the Israelites
    3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
    4. in a Christian sense
      1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
      2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
      3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
      4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
      5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Word Usage and Count[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]church [/TD]
[TD]115 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]assembly [/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
Primary meaning is first mentioned..."a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly".
Ek=out of klesia=called.

P.S. you should cite sources.
 
Scuba

Scuba

Banned
#140
Jun 26, 2014
1,011
17
0
#140
p_rehbein said:
Seriously? So the Apostle Paul was NOT OF GOD? He was NOT A MESSENGER FROM GOD? He WAS NOT ESPECIALLY CHOSEN BY GOD TO BE A MESSENGER?

Speaking of "weak believers............."

I've read JUST ENOUGH of your dribble to realize that my "Ignore List" needs to be updated...........excuse me while I attend to that............goodness.............
Click to expand...
Paul is not Jesus. Paul can only confirm what Jesus taught. Jesus never spoke about Sunday, not even once. You are injecting the seventh day into Romans 14 without Paul or Jesus' approval.

Remember, they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment after Jesus died so He didn't change the day. Remember, Jesus spoke of a prophecy that would take place 40 years after His resurrection and He was still confirming the Sabbath.

Matthew 24:19-20 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

I think the, ignore list, button is on the lower right of your screen...:rolleyes:
 
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