Sunday as the Lord's day is one of Satan's greatest deceptions...

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H

Hoffco

Guest
#21
This problem is solved very quickly by reading: Gal.4:9-10, Eph. 2:14-15, Col.2:14-17. Very clearly Paul taught the O.T. days, yrs, feast ordinances, sabbaths, are destroyed by Jesus death. . End of discussion.. Jesus DID abolish many of the O/T. laws.. Jesus really fulfilled them and did away with them.. Love to all. even to my 7th day friends, Hoffco
 
L

LT

Guest
#22
You mean you actually read that long tedious post?
I don't always read long posts,
but when i do, i read Dos Equis.

... I mean ... critically.

Although tedious, I read through them thoroughly to see if they are well thought through.

PS. alliteration is fun.
 
L

LT

Guest
#23
First of all I don't appreciate being associated with EGW in a negative way just because I'm preaching truth. The truth about the seventh day Sabbath did not come through the SDA, it came through a Baptist minister who shared the Sabbath true to the Adventist Church which later became the Seventh Day Adventist because of the Sabbath truth.
so it is the truth of a man. not God's Truth. think about what you're saying.
Think about who you follow. Are they human, or is it God?

Now let me help you come out of Babylon.
So you are you Zerubbabel now?
Will you lead me out of the bondage of Christ? because He is the only one I am bound to, and the only one I am captivated by.


Also, Jesus is dead so why all the fuss about the Sabbath and obeying it according to the commandment? Didn't Jesus' death do away with the Sabbath and the commandments?
Jesus is not dead.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#24
so it is the truth of a man. not God's Truth. think about what you're saying.
Think about who you follow. Are they human, or is it God?

So you are you Zerubbabel now?
Will you lead me out of the bondage of Christ? because He is the only one I am bound to, and the only one I am captivated by.


Jesus is not dead.
To say that God can't use people to lead people to truth is a proud statement.

To say that Jesus didn't die for our sins is unbiblical.

There are discussions that are profitable and there are discussions that are not. This is one that is not.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#26
This problem is solved very quickly by reading: Gal.4:9-10, Eph. 2:14-15, Col.2:14-17. Very clearly Paul taught the O.T. days, yrs, feast ordinances, sabbaths, are destroyed by Jesus death. . End of discussion.. Jesus DID abolish many of the O/T. laws.. Jesus really fulfilled them and did away with them.. Love to all. even to my 7th day friends, Hoffco
Jesus didn't do away with the Sabbath, He is Lord of it.

Jesus fulfilled the Feast days but they still have teaching value.

Religious man threw the baby out with the bath water and even replaced God's teaching days with man made traditions such as Christmas, Easter, Lent, Good Friday, Sunday worship and so on. You have not done away with keeping holy days, you just changed them to holidays of which have no teaching value other than misleading.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#27
It still says as I say- the sabbath/saturday began to turn into sunday morning- the first day of the week... This is what it said where you sent me...In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first dayoftheweek, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
You probably read my original post and missed the part that covers your question so I'll cut and paste it here.

The Strong's number for "day of the week" is the Strong's number G4521. That number means "sabbaton" and refers to the seventh day, not the first day. That Strong's number G4512 is also used for the word "week".

There are times when the Strong's number (G4521) is translated (week).


Luke 18:12 I fast twice a week (G4521); I give tithes of all that I possess.

Understanding this helps us to understand Matthew 28:1. Listen.

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Now lets break this verse down so it doesn't conflict with the rest of God's word.

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, (G4521 week) as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, (G4521 sabbath) came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The verse should read like this.

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the week, as it began to dawn toward the first Sabbath, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,130
358
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#28
Exodus 12:16
On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day. Do no work at all on these days, except to prepare food for everyone to eat;

[h=3]Leviticus 23[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]The Appointed Festivals[/h]23 The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
[h=4]The Sabbath[/h][SUP]3 [/SUP]“‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.
[h=4]The Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread[/h][SUP]4 [/SUP]“‘These are the Lord’s appointed festivals, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: [SUP]5 [/SUP]The Lord’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. [SUP]6 [/SUP]On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. [SUP]7 [/SUP]On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For seven days present a food offering to the Lord. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’”
[h=4]Offering the Firstfruits[/h][SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. [SUP]11 [/SUP]He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath.[SUP]12 [/SUP]On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect, [SUP]13 [/SUP]together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah[SUP][a][/SUP] of the finest flour mixed with olive oil—a food offering presented to the Lord, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin[SUP][b][/SUP] of wine. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

[h=4]The Festival of Weeks[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]“‘From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord. [SUP]17 [/SUP]From wherever you live, bring two loaves made of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour, baked with yeast, as a wave offering of firstfruits to the Lord. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the Lord, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings—a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Then sacrifice one male goat for a sin offering[SUP][c][/SUP] and two lambs, each a year old, for a fellowship offering. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The priest is to wave the two lambs before the Lord as a wave offering, together with the bread of the firstfruits. They are a sacred offering to the Lord for the priest. [SUP]21 [/SUP]On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the Lord your God.’”
[h=4]The Festival of Trumpets[/h][SUP]23 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]24 [/SUP]“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of sabbath rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Do no regular work, but present a food offering to the Lord.’”

[h=4]The Day of Atonement[/h][SUP]26 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]27 [/SUP]“The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves,[SUP][d][/SUP] and present a food offering to the Lord. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Do not do any work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. [SUP]30 [/SUP]I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day. [SUP]31 [/SUP]You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. [SUP]32 [/SUP]It is a day of sabbath rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.”

[h=4]The Festival of Tabernacles
[/h][SUP]33 [/SUP]The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]34 [/SUP]“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the Lord’s Festival of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For seven days present food offerings to the Lord, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present a food offering to the Lord. It is the closing special assembly; do no regular work.

[SUP]37 [/SUP](“‘These are the Lord’s appointed festivals, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies for bringing food offerings to the Lord—the burnt offerings and grain offerings, sacrifices and drink offerings required for each day. [SUP]38 [/SUP]These offerings are in addition to those for the Lord’s Sabbaths and[SUP][e][/SUP] in addition to your gifts and whatever you have vowed and all the freewill offerings you give to the Lord.)

[SUP]39 [/SUP]“‘So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the Lord for seven days; the first day is a day of sabbath rest, and the eighth day also is a day of sabbath rest.[SUP]40 [/SUP]On the first day you are to take branches from luxuriant trees—from palms, willows and other leafy trees—and rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. [SUP]41 [/SUP]Celebrate this as a festival to the Lord for seven days each year. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come; celebrate it in the seventh month. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Live in temporary shelters for seven days: All native-born Israelites are to live in such shelters [SUP]43 [/SUP]so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in temporary shelters when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.’”

[SUP]44 [/SUP]So Moses announced to the Israelites the appointed festivals of the Lord.
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#29
the sabbath? i'm considering becoming a second day adventist. we will worship on monday because we can rent cheap spaces in churches.
Or to consider worshipping in spirit and in truth neither here nor there but in oneself everyday. It's free space but it could be fully booked by the world except a couple of hours on the first day of the week.
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#30
People are confusing the sabbath with the lord's day.
They are different.
The Lord's day is the day Jesus rose. Sunday, in Greek, it is 'the lord's day'.
The sabbath is saturday, in Greek, saturday is 'sabbath'.
Christians gather to celebrate Jesus' rising on the Lord's day - this has nothing to do with the Sabbath.
Jews gather together on the Sabbath.
The Lord's day is Sunday - good one. It's taught by quite a few without any reference to the bible.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
4,606
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#31
The Lord's day is Sunday - good one. It's taught by quite a few without any reference to the bible.
Revelation 1:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

John 20:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] In the evening of that first day of the week, the disciples were ⌊gathered together⌋ with the doors locked because of their fear of the Jews. Then Jesus came, stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!”

Acts 20:7 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] On the first day of every week { a congregational collection for missions }, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Leviticus 23:15-17 (NKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP] 'And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall offer a new grain offering to the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] You shall bring from your dwellings two wave loaves of two-tenths of an ephah. They shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven. They are the first fruits to the LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.
 
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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,548
6,766
113
#32
The Lord's day is Sunday - good one. It's taught by quite a few without any reference to the bible.
...uh, and denied by quite a few who twist Scripture to suit their ideology.......just saying.......it's that pot....kettle thingy
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#33
May I suggest you get your theology for the Scriptures:

Matthew 5:17-18 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For truly, I say to you,until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Romans 3:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Psalm 32:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Then I acknowledged my sin to You and did not conceal my iniquity. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and You took away the guilt of my sin. Selah

1 John 1:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The purpose for the law (Rom. 3:20), has always been the same, and will remain until the universe and earth pass away.

VCO, may I suggest you get yours corrected!

I guess you did not get the memo!?
The old heaven and earth or creation did pass away
and Behold, all things have been made new in Christ Jesus!
He, Jesus is the new heaven and earth, or new Creation;
He is the New Adam!

Jesus did fulfill the Law and the Prophets, therefore the Old way has been made obsolete!
He fulfilled every dot and tittle!
Therefore with the Old Creation in Adam passing away
So has the Torah, or Law of Moses been abolished,
for the New Torah, or Law in Christ Jesus!

you beat a dead horse, because the Spirit that quickens is not made been made alive in you!

just some of my thoughts
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#34
The old heaven and earth have not passed away yet. John was given this prophecy of future events while he was on the island of Patmos, after Jesus had already been crucified and all the other original 12 disciples except for him have been crucified or martyred in other ways.

So Jesus could not have fulfilled the part of being the new heaven and earth as that prophecy was given later.

VCO, may I suggest you get yours corrected!

I guess you did not get the memo!?
The old heaven and earth or creation did pass away
and Behold, all things have been made new in Christ Jesus!
He, Jesus is the new heaven and earth, or new Creation;
He is the New Adam!

Jesus did fulfill the Law and the Prophets, therefore the Old way has been made obsolete!
He fulfilled every dot and tittle!
Therefore with the Old Creation in Adam passing away
So has the Torah, or Law of Moses been abolished,
for the New Torah, or Law in Christ Jesus!

you beat a dead horse, because the Spirit that quickens is not made been made alive in you!

just some of my thoughts
 
Oct 12, 2012
1,563
929
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#35
The old heaven and earth have not passed away yet. John was given this prophecy of future events while he was on the island of Patmos, after Jesus had already been crucified and all the other original 12 disciples except for him have been crucified or martyred in other ways.

So Jesus could not have fulfilled the part of being the new heaven and earth as that prophecy was given later.

Prophecy, given in Covenant can be past present or future, you don't know what your speaking about!
Paul said, Jesus became the New Creation and we the New Creatures in that Creation, or heaven and earth.
The Scripture he was quoting says, ...the Torah of Moses will not pass away until heaven and earth passes away...
..Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, every dot and tittle, ...the old heaven and earth in Adam has passed away... and every dot and tittle has been fulfilled by Christ in the Torah of Moses...

This is not speaking of the Cosmos or universe; but the 7 day Creation Covenant in Adam.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#36
Wrong the new heaven and new earth John prophesied about was show to him by our Lord in a vision about the coming of the end of days and tribulation period. After the tribulation and Gods wrath, and the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth then the new heaven and earth is created. The tribulation and Gods wrath has not happened yet, so the new heaven and new earth can not of happened either. The new heaven and new earth take place after the second coming of Christ.

Prophecy, given in Covenant can be past present or future, you don't know what your speaking about!
Paul said, Jesus became the New Creation and we the New Creatures in that Creation, or heaven and earth.
The Scripture he was quoting says, ...the Torah of Moses will not pass away until heaven and earth passes away...
..Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, every dot and tittle, ...the old heaven and earth in Adam has passed away... and every dot and tittle has been fulfilled by Christ in the Torah of Moses...

This is not speaking of the Cosmos or universe; but the 7 day Creation Covenant in Adam.
 
P

phil112

Guest
#37
.............................There are discussions that are profitable and there are discussions that are not. This is one that is not.
That can be said about pretty much every discussion you are involved in.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
4,606
113
#38
VCO, may I suggest you get yours corrected!

I guess you did not get the memo!?
The old heaven and earth or creation did pass away
and Behold, all things have been made new in Christ Jesus!
He, Jesus is the new heaven and earth, or new Creation;
He is the New Adam!

Jesus did fulfill the Law and the Prophets, therefore the Old way has been made obsolete!
He fulfilled every dot and tittle!
Therefore with the Old Creation in Adam passing away
So has the Torah, or Law of Moses been abolished,
for the New Torah, or Law in Christ Jesus!

you beat a dead horse, because the Spirit that quickens is not made been made alive in you!

just some of my thoughts
I don't believe you because I read the end of the when the First heaven (universe) and First earth will be, at the END OF THE BOOK.

Isaiah 34:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] All the heavenly bodies will dissolve. The skies will roll up like a scroll, and their stars will all wither as leaves wither on the vine, and foliage on the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] the sky separated like a scroll being rolled up; and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the military commanders, the rich, the powerful, and every slave and free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] because the great day of Their wrath has come! And who is able to stand?”

Revelation 20:7-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#39
i just addressed this in another thread...but apparently certain people have decided to spam the forum by posting thread after thread with exactly the same message only with a slightly different presentation...so here it is again...

first of all the 'wednesday crucifixion theory' has already been debunked at length in this thread... http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/89553-good-friday-easter-sunday.html

to make a long story short it is scripturally and logically unworkable...friday to sunday is the -only- viable possibility that agrees with scripture and basic logic...

secondly your attempt at 'correcting' the bible so that it reads 'first sabbath' instead of 'first day of the week' is also unworkable...because consistently translating the greek phrase in this way throughout the new testament would result in contradictions and impossibilities in other passages of scripture...

and finally the bible never actually identifies any particular day by name as 'the lord's day'...but it is self evident that the early church would have known what this term meant...so the task is to determine which day the early church by convention referred to as 'the lord's day'...

from early christian documents such as the letter of ignatius of antioch to the magnesian church...it is clear that the early christians used the term 'the lord's day' to refer to sunday...the day of jesus' resurrection...and not the seventh day saturday sabbath...
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#40
i just addressed this in another thread...but apparently certain people have decided to spam the forum by posting thread after thread with exactly the same message only with a slightly different presentation...so here it is again...

first of all the 'wednesday crucifixion theory' has already been debunked at length in this thread... http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/89553-good-friday-easter-sunday.html

to make a long story short it is scripturally and logically unworkable...friday to sunday is the -only- viable possibility that agrees with scripture and basic logic...

secondly your attempt at 'correcting' the bible so that it reads 'first sabbath' instead of 'first day of the week' is also unworkable...because consistently translating the greek phrase in this way throughout the new testament would result in contradictions and impossibilities in other passages of scripture...

and finally the bible never actually identifies any particular day by name as 'the lord's day'...but it is self evident that the early church would have known what this term meant...so the task is to determine which day the early church by convention referred to as 'the lord's day'...

from early christian documents such as the letter of ignatius of antioch to the magnesian church...it is clear that the early christians used the term 'the lord's day' to refer to sunday...the day of jesus' resurrection...and not the seventh day saturday sabbath...
You allowed your mind to be debunked. The Bible says differently.