Is the Gift of Tongues for everyone???

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

VCO said:

I have considered that as well. Not only the speaker, but also the hearer. I also assumed (and I may be wrong on this), that the Apostles were speaking their native language, empowered by the Holy Spirit, but in the ears of the listeners, the Holy Spirit caused them to hear it in their native language.

This is a miracle that couldn't be faked.

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

VCO said:

Just wanted to emphasize another piece of this verse.

The_highwayman · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

Your lack of Biblical knowledge is astounding, you cannot even correctly interpret who Paul was speaking about in 2 Thess 2.

You and VCO are not going to convince me of anything,especially with your babes knowledge of the word. FOr the record professor 2 Thess 2 is talking about the beast, not tongue talking Christians...no run along and go cry to your pastor who is misleading you into error.

The_highwayman · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

How do you reconcile this statement with Acts 19? Paul spoke the known language of the Ephesians and spoke to the 12 in Acts 19 in their native/ known language. So who did the 12 speak in tongues to, if everyone around them spoke the same language?

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

The_highwayman said:

Paul called those practicing sign gifts babes:

1 Corinthians 13

You are very arrogant and mean in your responses and claim to be led by the Spirit of God. Such arrogance is not born from above, but from something else. The way for 2 Thessalonians 2 is being paved by the modern signs movements, beginning with the Pentecostal movement and the Azusa Street Revival in the early 1900s. They deviated from 1900 years of core Christian doctrine and separated from orthodox Christianity. Before the birth of the modern movements, those practicing these things would have been labeled heretics. Those propagating these modern movements are paving the way for the antichrist.

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

The_highwayman said:

Not sure what you mean about Acts 19 here. Chapter 19 mentions several different places where different languages were spoken:

Acts 19

Notice Paul himself layed his hands on them to pass on the gifts. As far as I know, there is no example in scripture of anyone other than the Apostles and Paul, eyewitnesses to Christ's resurrection, that could pass on gifts by laying on of hands.

posthuman · Jul 2, 2014

how nice,

another pages-long discussion of tongues,
written completely in English!

Your eyes will see the king in his beauty
and view a land that stretches afar.
In your thoughts you will ponder the former terror:

“Where is that chief officer?
Where is the one who took the revenue?
Where is the officer in charge of the towers?”

You will see those arrogant people no more,
people whose speech is obscure,
whose language is strange and incomprehensible.
(Isaiah 33:17-19)

today, though we were at one time strangers, and His Word was confusion in our ears,
today He calls us by name, in a language we understand!

VCO · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

I agree to a point, but here is why I do not think they were speaking in their own native language:

1 Corinthians 14:21 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] In the law it is written, By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers will I speak unto this people; and not even thus will they hear me, saith the Lord.

Galilee was was not all that far from Jerusalem, and yes the fishermen among the disciples, were known to have a thick accent, but it still would not be classified as a strange tongue. I think the most likely scenario is that they miraculously spoke in one language they had never learned, while simultaneously everyone from all the known languages heard in their own native dialect, every word that was said.

breno785au · Jul 2, 2014

What does this scripture mean?

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

VCO · Jul 2, 2014

The_highwayman said:

On the contrary, their are many sub-divisions under the single title Praying according to the Will of GOD, but ALL of them are in a KNOWN language, understood by the speaker.

Prayer for requests
Prayer for help
Prayer for wisdom
Prayer for understanding
Prayer for repentance
Prayer for confession
Prayer for restoration of joy
Prayer for boldness
Prayer for faithfulness
Prayer for Victory over Sin
Prayer for Patience to wait on HIM
Prayer for full submissiveness to HIS WILL
Prayer for the words to effectively lead another to receive Jesus as LORD
Prayer for the words to effectively teach others, as in a Sermon or Sunday School Class
etc., etc., etc.

James 5:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I certainly have experienced many, many answered prayers in my lifetime. Too many to number. Even the last one on my add-on to your list. I was in the Prison Ministry as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain for fifteen years and not once did I ever pre-write a sermon and then just read it to them. I would choose a subject, usually one that HE had brought into my path during the week. I would find the verses on that subject, study them to be sure I understood what they meant, print them out on a list (because a LOT of inmates do not known where the books of the Bible are), pray for the Lord's leading on what to say about them in the sermon on Saturday Night, Sunday morning, and verbally out loud as I stepped up to the Pulpit. As I opened my mouth I totally TRUSTED HIM to give me every word of the sermon, and proceeded to teach for 45 minutes to an hour, FULLY TRUSTING HIM THE ENTIRE TIME. HE was faithful to answer those prayers every time, and the message just flowed out of me, as the Holy Spirit empowered me. NO, not one word was ever in another language or unknown tongue.

Here is an example of all I used for Sermon Notes:

VCO · Jul 2, 2014

breno785au said:

Try reading it in context, comparing it to other scriptures on the same subject:

1 Corinthians 14:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But he who prophesies (proclaims the Word of God without error in the local language) speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies (proclaims the Word of God without error in the local language) edifies the church.

1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] All things are lawful; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful; but not all things edify.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor's good (or edification).

1 Corinthians 14:12 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

1 Corinthians 14:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in ⌊another⌋ language.

In the Church of Corinth you had MANY converts from the Greek Mystery religions. In those pagan religion for over 400 years before Paul wrote this letter, they used ecstatic unknown tongues frequently and were told by the priests that they were speaking to the gods. They were so confused between the REAL TONGUES and the counterfeit tongues someone actually stood up and cursed Christ, in the congregation, and luckily someone in the congregation understood what he said, and reported it to Paul, thus he wrote a letter to straighten out the mess the Church at Corinth had gotten themselves in to.

1 Corinthians 12:2-3 (NRSV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] You know that when you were pagans, you were enticed and led astray to idols that could not speak.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Let Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

The_highwayman · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

Not sure what you mean about Acts 19 here. Chapter 19 mentions several different places where different languages were spoken:

Acts 19

Notice Paul himself layed his hands on them to pass on the gifts. As far as I know, there is no example in scripture of anyone other than the Apostles and Paul, eyewitnesses to Christ's resurrection, that could pass on gifts by laying on of hands.

You just outed yourself, thanks for playing...

The_highwayman · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

Come to full age...your knowledge of the Bible is weak at best...why do you work so hard at discrediting that the God of the Bible somehow lost his power for men today?

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

The_highwayman said:

It's not about God losing power. It's about God's power being manifested in a way you don't seem to understand. False signs and miracles are what denies God's power. It takes God's power and reduces it by stage shows put on by liars and thieves. The word of God and the Gospel are not sufficient for sign chasers, so they demand more, even to the point of falsifying miracles. God's providence and divine will still take place, but revelatory gifts were of a sign to confirm those he chose to speak for him, as they always were signs to the Jews in the entire bible. They weren't commonplace and weren't for everyone. They were confirmations that God was speaking through someone and that that person had authority to speak for him. Can you write new scripture and add it to the canon?

The_highwayman said:

Not sure again what you mean. The tongues in Acts 19 were being used to speak to multiple language groups and to proclaim (coherently), the wonderful works of God. If I'm missing something, it would be proper to explain where my error is rather than resorting to showing your own maturity level with snide comments. You seem to know it all, so let me in on vast wells of knowledge.

The_highwayman · Jul 2, 2014

ForthAngel said:

It's not about God losing power. It's about God's power being manifested in a way you don't seem to understand. False signs and miracles are what denies God's power. It takes God's power and reduces it by stage shows put on by liars and thieves. The word of God and the Gospel are not sufficient for sign chasers, so they demand more, even to the point of falsifying miracles. God's providence and divine will still take place, but revelatory gifts were of a sign to confirm those he chose to speak for him, as they always were signs to the Jews in the entire bible. They weren't commonplace and weren't for everyone. They were confirmations that God was speaking through someone and that that person had authority to speak for him. Can you write new scripture and add it to the canon?

Not sure again what you mean. The tongues in Acts 19 were being used to speak to multiple language groups and to proclaim (coherently), the wonderful works of God. If I'm missing something, it would be proper to explain where my error is rather than resorting to showing your own maturity level with snide comments. You seem to know it all, so let me in on vast wells of knowledge.

Nothing I say or you say will change our theological views. Suffice to say we see it very differently.

ForthAngel · Jul 2, 2014

The_highwayman said:

I've been corrected countless times since I joined the site. I'm new to studying. If you can provide proof that your view is correct and back it up, then I am willing to concede. But I won't listen to someone being rude for no apparent reason.

VCO · Jul 3, 2014

The_highwayman said:

? ? ? Since when is speaking in tongues a sign of spiritual maturity? Are you sure of that? And we do believe the Holy Spirit is in us teaching us all things.

1 Corinthians 13:8-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Is that not in the context of spiritual gifts?

Did not Paul tell us to NOT seek self edifcation?

1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (ASV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] All things are lawful; but not all things are expedient. All things are lawful; but not all things edify.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor's good {or edification}.

Are not the spiritually mature, those who seek to edify others?

2 Corinthians 12:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification.

Ephesians 4:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

No, it doesn't bother me if you want to continue in the teachings about the tongues as you have been taught, but please do not expect me to drink from that same cup of tea. We are still Christian Brothers as long as we can agree that all must come to repentance, and out of LOVE, receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Master. After all, speaking in tongues was the least important gift in the first Century, and still is. However, I do fear for your spiritual well being when the Antichrist starts doing Miracles on TV, because you failed to convince us that you or any other one of the modern day tongues believers can tell the different between the REAL TONGUES, and the meaninglessless ecstatic utterances of the pagan Mystery Religions or even when demons are controlling someone's mouth. Please learn to put all miracles and teachings to the TEST OF SCRIPTURE, like the Bereans.

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

VCO · Jul 3, 2014

ForthAngel said:

It's not about God losing power. It's about God's power being manifested in a way you don't seem to understand. False signs and miracles are what denies God's power. It takes God's power and reduces it by stage shows put on by liars and thieves. The word of God and the Gospel are not sufficient for sign chasers, so they demand more, even to the point of falsifying miracles. God's providence and divine will still take place, but revelatory gifts were of a sign to confirm those he chose to speak for him, as they always were signs to the Jews in the entire bible. They weren't commonplace and weren't for everyone. They were confirmations that God was speaking through someone and that that person had authority to speak for him. Can you write new scripture and add it to the canon?

Not sure again what you mean. The tongues in Acts 19 were being used to speak to multiple language groups and to proclaim (coherently), the wonderful works of God. If I'm missing something, it would be proper to explain where my error is rather than resorting to showing your own maturity level with snide comments. You seem to know it all, so let me in on vast wells of knowledge.

I didn't know it was a game, did you? ? ? I thought it was a peaceful discussion.

fredjames · Jul 3, 2014

SpiritofElijah said:

Yes, everyone can speak in a tongues and non-believers also can speak in tongues. That is how they communicate and do business with each other. i also can speak in tongues, that is from my mother tongue, this nation where i live tongue and to English another tongue. i can also preach the GOSPEL in these tongues, in order to proclaim onto the lost about the Salvation of Kingdom of GOD, so that many can turn back to HIM in repentance. This is the gift of Prophesying, the best gift that Apostle Paul instructed for believers to desire, written in 1 Corinthian chapter 14.

Lets altogether remember the justification of the HOLY SPIRIT in highlights, written in, 1 Corinthians chapter 12 - chapter 14:

CHRIST who chose Apostle Paul to minister onto the Gentiles, even Gentile Christian, the called renewed people who are now gathered together as 'one', a church/a body of CHRIST, have already clarify this troubling and confusing matter then, for all of them to remain in 'oneness' knowledge and in heart faithful to CHRIST and for one another. And this is recorded in his epistle, for us as believers even today, to witness the same and believe that an order has been already established, for all to faithfully come in obedience and in submission to as well, as a church, as in 'oneness' with them, as together being there is only one body of CHRIST and we are all HIS members in serving.

Chapter 12:
1. justifies that the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT is distributed.
2. Not everyone have nor operate in the same gift.
3. Those who speak in unknown tongue must ask the gift of interpretation.
4. Do desire the best gift (Prophesying, according chapter 14)

Chapter 13:
1. vs 1 says, 'if i do not love', the tongues of men and of angels i speak, will be like noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. (the tongues of men are the ones fell on the day of Pentecost to only all in the room. They were able to speak the mother tongue of many foreigners there, in proclaiming the Kingdom of GOD of Salvation. And the tongue's' of angel's' are the ones fell on the household of Cornelius. They were able to utter in an 'unknown' tongue.). And vs 2 says about possessing the other gifts and without love one gain nothing.

Chapter 14:
1. Speaking in an unknown tongue requires also interpretation, so that those who are together, without the same gift, know upon interpretation, the meaning of the intercession to GOD and then they are all able in 'togetherness' say, Amen at the end the intercession.
2. Together with interpretation and speaking in an unknown tongue, only two or three are allowed to speak at one time in a meeting place and the others can take turns.
3. Without interpretation everyone who speak in an unknown tongue must remain silent and may intercede quietly in their hearts with GOD.
4. Apostle Paul says in vs 5, that he himself actually wants us all to speak in tongues, " 'but' even more to Prophesy." (Also please complete reading vs 5, 'tongue with interpretation' and prophesying is equally beneficial for all believers)
5. For vs 6 says that Prophesying benefits to believers, unless bringing them Revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching.

And one who have faith in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, may read on and is further beneficial for those;

(2 Peter 1;5-10)
"...............who make every effort to supplement their faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, ..............'

Virtue with insufficient knowledge and lack in knowledge wisdom, is of no gain at all for a gifted believer because they in practice be puffed up and will only cause divisions among believers.

Sorry i am instructed to say this as i prophesy for you to repent that in your lacking in the Kingdom Spiritual knowledge, you are witnessed to be the weak careful debater yourself, who is unknowingly twisting CHRIST through the HOLY SPIRIT's inspired and justified and established sound doctrine knowledge from the Holy Scripture. So you will only continue to initiate other weak careful debaters, in order to continue on and on again about already justified matters and are written in the Holy Bible and we are trying to remind and remind, and stir up memory and memory and also from time to time.

This proves that many believers are going ahead of the New Covenant sound doctrine teachings and soon they are headed towards becoming shipwrecks, as the Apostles proclaimed about those who were with them and have gone ahead of them and messing up the church. The Apostles stood firm in their confession and justification, even during tribulation and persecution.

i know and see clearly, why is that i am shipwrecked and am unknowing. about it?

It is because they were highlighted in spiritual teaching 'terms and conditions' and i needed to understand patiently through my spiritual blessing i have also through the 'rules and regulations' of this race, while i tried to thrust on fast ahead. Little did i know that i have stumbled and collided upon a stone in the race. And that stone, in my spiritual knowledge wisdom, i have come to know now that this stone truly turned out to be;

"...............the most important stone that the builders rejected."

Sadly, due to truth poverty, even till this very day and showing.

Turn back and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

VCO · Jul 3, 2014

fredjames said:

May I show you what it really says happened at the household of Cornelius? By the way I am not attacking your beliefs, but you seem to have missed something. I am surprised, but that is first time I ever heard that theory that you presented in all of my years as a born again Christian. The Scriptures are very specific about what happened there, and the WHY it happened, EXACTLY like it did for the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost, the mighty wind, the tongues of fire on their heads, and speaking to unbelieving Jews in their own native dialects. The secret to a full understanding lies in the FACT that the unbelieving Jews would have denied that Gentiles can be saved just like the Jews who believed in JESUS, or that if they were saved, they were a lower class of Christians. Who were the unbelieving Jews, Peter's followers, did not believe Gentiles could be considered CLEAN by GOD. Remember Peter's vision? Jews believe Gentiles and their houses were UNCLEAN because they did not follow the Dietary Laws. Jews NEVER entered a Gentile's house because of that belief. Even the SLIGHTEST difference in the gift of Tongues, to the Jewish Believers would driven them to suspect it was a counterfeit or to continue to believe that Gentiles were a lower class of believers than Jewish believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. Remember the Court of the Gentiles at the Temple? Jews throughout all of there prior history thought of Gentiles as a lower class of believers. Even Peter struggled with believing that Gentile believers were equal to them in the site of GOD.

Acts 10:28 (NKJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 10:34 (NKJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.

Acts 10:44-45 (NKJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Acts 11:1-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles had welcomed God’s message also.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] When Peter went up to Jerusalem, those who stressed circumcision argued with him,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] saying, “You visited uncircumcised men and ate with them!”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Peter began to explain to them in an orderly sequence, saying:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] “I was in the town of Joppa praying, and I saw, in a visionary state, an object that resembled a large sheet coming down, being lowered by its four corners from heaven, and it came to me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When I looked closely and considered it, I saw the four-footed animals of the earth, the wild beasts, the reptiles, and the birds of the sky.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then I also heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter; kill and eat!’
[SUP]8 [/SUP] “‘No, Lord!’ I said. ‘For nothing common or ritually unclean has ever entered my mouth!’
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But a voice answered from heaven a second time, ‘What God has made clean, you must not call common.’
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “Now this happened three times, and then everything was drawn up again into heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] At that very moment, three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea arrived at the house where we were.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Then the Spirit told me to accompany them with no doubts at all. These six brothers accompanied me, and we went into the man’s house.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house and saying, ‘Send to Joppa, and call for Simon, who is also named Peter.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] He will speak a message to you that you and all your household will be saved by.’
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came down on them, just as on us at the beginning.

That would be with the mighty wind, the tongues of fire, and proclaiming the mighty works of GOD in the presence of the unbelieving Jews that came along with Peter, convincing them ONCE AND FOR ALL, that GOD SHOWS NO PARTIALITY.

Is the Gift of Tongues for everyone???

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