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wgeurts
Guest
As for a cell being made out of many different proteins and that old argument check this:
CB010.2: Origin of the first cells
yes God exsist but please dont argue rubbish as that will stop anyone from listening to your arguments.
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as for that left handed amino acids argument, read this:
CB040: Left-handed amino acids
CB010.2: Origin of the first cells
yes God exsist but please dont argue rubbish as that will stop anyone from listening to your arguments.
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as for that left handed amino acids argument, read this:
CB040: Left-handed amino acids
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ecclescakez
Guest
Nobody knows what the most primitive cells looked like. All the cells around today are the product of billions of years of evolution.
On the first point- then stop preaching to me about the origins of life.
On the second point- No, that's your presumption, sir. You've just freely admitted that these primitive cells are purely hypothetical and you have no knowledge of whether they existed, and if they did, what they were like.
Nobody denies that the origin of life is an extremely difficult problem. That it has not been solved, though, does not mean it is impossible. In fact, there has been much work in this area, leading to several possible origins for life on earth:
So again, you confess its entirely speculation on your part, and you're working around a hypothesis you're attached to, not based on concrete evidence. Every possibility you suggest, therefore, will exclude anything that doesn't fit into your view of the origins of life, including creation. How is that science, and the pursuit of truth? Its starting off with a hypothesis of your choice, and considering the possibilities that branch out from it. I would imagine, its unbearable for you to consider you were created, as it would shatter the foundations of your views of life, any contrasting evidence, therefore, you will probably block out, or explain away. Again, this is not science.
On the first point- then stop preaching to me about the origins of life.
On the second point- No, that's your presumption, sir. You've just freely admitted that these primitive cells are purely hypothetical and you have no knowledge of whether they existed, and if they did, what they were like.
Nobody denies that the origin of life is an extremely difficult problem. That it has not been solved, though, does not mean it is impossible. In fact, there has been much work in this area, leading to several possible origins for life on earth:
So again, you confess its entirely speculation on your part, and you're working around a hypothesis you're attached to, not based on concrete evidence. Every possibility you suggest, therefore, will exclude anything that doesn't fit into your view of the origins of life, including creation. How is that science, and the pursuit of truth? Its starting off with a hypothesis of your choice, and considering the possibilities that branch out from it. I would imagine, its unbearable for you to consider you were created, as it would shatter the foundations of your views of life, any contrasting evidence, therefore, you will probably block out, or explain away. Again, this is not science.
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wgeurts
Guest
Sorry but Evolution has nothing to do from and ISN'T base of a cell randomly occuring. As stated before it is how life developed not how it got here. Now let me criticise your statement;
Are you building your theoriea about Evolution off anything? Yea the Bible, now an Atheist asks what Evidence is there for that?
No one can prove anything, Its A STUPID ARGUMENT! Creationism vs Evolution makes no difference to your life and no one can prove it correct or right nor say one is more likely. So my point I was trying to make was: Evolution isn't a load of rubbish and isnt necciserily a load of demonic influenced stiff.
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Evolution doesn't deny God creating us. So yes Creation is needed for belief but how that Creation was done, now thats another story (*cough* argument)
Are you building your theoriea about Evolution off anything? Yea the Bible, now an Atheist asks what Evidence is there for that?
No one can prove anything, Its A STUPID ARGUMENT! Creationism vs Evolution makes no difference to your life and no one can prove it correct or right nor say one is more likely. So my point I was trying to make was: Evolution isn't a load of rubbish and isnt necciserily a load of demonic influenced stiff.
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Evolution doesn't deny God creating us. So yes Creation is needed for belief but how that Creation was done, now thats another story (*cough* argument)
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Ad hominem. A fallacy in logical reasoning. Attack the person rather than the argument. This is the first of your fallacies in logical reasoning. I see now you have made more errors in logical reasoning.
First of all, I have said nothing about evolution, yet. I said the preponderance of evidence indicates that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old as opposed to around 6,000 years old.
Before you can intelligently discuss evolution, it seems to me you need to define your parameters. Are we talking about evolution taking place in the last 4.5 billion years or the last 6,000 years?
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ecclescakez
Guest
Dude, you avoided every question I asked you, now you're pointing the finger. You also made fun of what I posted, without even taking a look at it. Don't talk to me about logic. I'm not your enemy.
"And it came to pass that there were thunderings and lightnings". Seems like our blood system is in the image of lightning, one of the ways God manifested himself. Not such a bad argument, unless you believe we were created by lightning, which has been theorised. Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
"And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace," Another manifestation of God, that directly parallels the hub of the human nervous system, which is linked strongly with electricity. Again, in the image of a manifestation of God. I suppose it could be theorised that billows of smoke were part of the evolutionary process, and our body decided to evolve that way on its own but again, its directly in the image. Looks like God's Word is onto something.
Now this ones mindboggling. Forget the chicken and the egg, which came first? The ear or the trumpet? You could argue that several thousand years ago, someone dissected a human head, and designed the trumpet in its image. Its possible. You could argue these images have been selectively chosen. That's fine if you overlook the indications that the Bible was divinely inspired by an all knowing being, one of the least reasons being the tremendous mathematical patterns discovered within it.
I think it more likely we were designed in God's image. Sorry if that's scary.
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StoneThrower
Guest
I am impressed, seriously. Do you home school? Usually only home schoolers have read The Fallacy Detective
All, if you haven't read this book you should regardless of your age!
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andrewmhmusic
Guest
Dear All, I am quite Biblical and therefore believe God created matter actually, as he is outside of matter, space and time. I don't really understand the question lol as it is slightly ambiguous, but I believe in salvation through our lord Jesus Christ and I believe God is the Creator of everything 
Dude, I asked you a question first to which you responded: "Are you serious?!? Yeah, I can't do anything for you, you're an idiot."
Right?
So do you believe the earth is around 6,000 years old or around 4.5 billion years old or other (please elaborate if other).
That shouldn't be too difficult to answer.
I'm not really into detective stories unless they star Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry.
Clint once said on the subject of religion: "So although my religious training was not really specific, I do feel spiritual things. If I stand on the side of the Grand Canyon and look down, it moves me in some way."
Do you think the Grand Canyon is around 6,000 years old? If not, how old do you think it is?
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StoneThrower
Guest
An historically accurate book written composed of 66 books, by 44 authors, over a period of 1500 years that tells one story. His story.
No other book in antiquity has as many copies or fragments without contradiction, written as close in time to the accounts of the New Testament that have survived.
Whats the Atheist have to bring to the table for evidence? Nothing but conjecture and opinion. He has no proof. What does he have, if he believes in evolution is a moral standard that he cant use, and a world view he cant live by. I am sorry I am not convinced.
Oh yea I almost forgot, the Christian has physical evidence of a changed life and being possessed by an alien righteous.
"Apart from the Bible, is there any way we could know that the future will be like the past? So far, no one has been able to show how such a belief would make sense apart from Scripture. The only non biblical explanations offered have turned out to be faulty." Dr. Jason Lisle (astrophysicist) on March 22, 2011
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andrewmhmusic
Guest
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ecclescakez
Guest
Well, seeing as its free game, I propose that the earth is as old as I like until its conclusively proven. Ner ner.
Another question. When you see the trumpet and the human ear, here's the questions that are highly likely to come to mind:
When was the trumpet made? Who made it? Why was it made that way? Why was it made?
Are these really stupid questions? Or are they something we are naturally inclined to ask?
Lets draw a parallel for fun with creation. The evolutionist would say: 1st: "We don't know, but this is the hypothesis we want to work with". 2nd: "No one, it came from nothing". 3rd: "Don't be silly, it wasn't designed". 4th "Don't be silly, there is no reason to anything". Ouch.
Another question. When you see the trumpet and the human ear, here's the questions that are highly likely to come to mind:
When was the trumpet made? Who made it? Why was it made that way? Why was it made?
Are these really stupid questions? Or are they something we are naturally inclined to ask?
Lets draw a parallel for fun with creation. The evolutionist would say: 1st: "We don't know, but this is the hypothesis we want to work with". 2nd: "No one, it came from nothing". 3rd: "Don't be silly, it wasn't designed". 4th "Don't be silly, there is no reason to anything". Ouch.
That sounds like something the Pope said.
Funny, the Catholics appear to me to have a better understanding of this than do the evangelicals, fundamentalists, and most of those posting on this thread.
Particularly with respect to how old the earth is.
It is perfectly ridiculous to tie the time schedule and method God used to create us and the bible to actually believing whether God created it or not. Scripture doesn't really tell us because God Himself didn't think it was necessary we know, and we probably couldn't understand it if God used scripture like man does a manual on something man makes.
The first verse of the bible states that God did the creating. That is something we need to know. The second verse moves way ahead to describing what was there on the first day God tells us about, and by this time it was a void of darkness. The Hebrew word for that darkness includes the idea of a world without God's spirit in it and the light God added was, in the Hebrew language all of what was of God's spirit.
For thousands of years it was no big deal that God didn't give a time schedule and exactly how God did it with the telling, Hebrews were only interested in that God did it and how they fitting into that fact. All this not believing without absolute physical proof complete with a time schedule was a way of thinking that wasn't done until men like Plato, Socrates, or Aristotle brought their ideas of the proper way to think in, and it shocked the Hebrews. It is ridiculous when people tie believing in a strict time schedule for the Lord with their belief in God's word.
The first verse of the bible states that God did the creating. That is something we need to know. The second verse moves way ahead to describing what was there on the first day God tells us about, and by this time it was a void of darkness. The Hebrew word for that darkness includes the idea of a world without God's spirit in it and the light God added was, in the Hebrew language all of what was of God's spirit.
For thousands of years it was no big deal that God didn't give a time schedule and exactly how God did it with the telling, Hebrews were only interested in that God did it and how they fitting into that fact. All this not believing without absolute physical proof complete with a time schedule was a way of thinking that wasn't done until men like Plato, Socrates, or Aristotle brought their ideas of the proper way to think in, and it shocked the Hebrews. It is ridiculous when people tie believing in a strict time schedule for the Lord with their belief in God's word.
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Pottyone
Guest
I'm sorry Jack H but your tone is really rather bitter and disingenuous. To start to insult people simply because they hold a different opinion from you is not particularly mature. I think the point is that each of us should e seeking not to prop up some belief system but rather to rationally examine he evidence at hand and seek to find out the truth. If a person is wrong simply shouting loudly about an opinion is not going to make it correct and I would implore you to examine the real evidence available. This is too important to get wrong. May The Lord help all of us to know his truth.
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ecclescakez
Guest
I really would urge you to watch the top video I posted, as well as the "Bible Inspired by God Mathematically proven", the former deals with alot of claims you would make about the world being billions of years old, including the Grand Canyon. It should be illuminating for you either way.