Free Gifts Come With Conditions....
- Thread starter SeaBass
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
bearing false witness again. I answered a few posts (yes a few) before this.
I am not trying to scare anyone. I am confronting you and trying to make you back what your saying.
You asked questions. I answered. I ask. You redirect (as usual)
The fact is, Your afraid to answer, because you know in the back of your mind I am right.
How can one claim he is not trying to earn salvation, then claim one has to work hard not to lose salvation.
Those are contradicting statements, yet you claim both are true.
if the gift wasn't so glorious, free and undeserved,
i wouldn't have cause to praise Him like i do.
but this great love -- for His grace i am more grateful than words can express!!
and eternally indebted, though no payment is required.
so as living sacrifices we are become free-will offerings, not atonement -- our debt is paid!!
Thy people are free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength
(Psalm 110:3)
and in love, obedient in adoration rather than fearful burden.
even our love is a gift - we love because He first loved us - and before i knew Him, i did not know love.
i wouldn't have cause to praise Him like i do.
but this great love -- for His grace i am more grateful than words can express!!
and eternally indebted, though no payment is required.
so as living sacrifices we are become free-will offerings, not atonement -- our debt is paid!!
Thy people are free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength
(Psalm 110:3)
and in love, obedient in adoration rather than fearful burden.
even our love is a gift - we love because He first loved us - and before i knew Him, i did not know love.
one can neglect salvation ....how do you not neglect salvation...Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
It does not matter what you or I call it .that is what we must do. Obedience to God is more important than doctrine of man
It does not matter what you or I call it .that is what we must do. Obedience to God is more important than doctrine of man
E
lol. Do me a favor. and stop your false witness against me. How can you live with yourself?
I am not fighting obedience to God. I teach it, I preach it. I confront in love those who do not obey God and are in sin.
That is NOT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.
We are discussing, Being obedient to earn, keep, or not lose salvation (make salvation based on merit) vs being obedient because you love, trust, and understand God. and are tryign to be like him (love, others focused, crucifying self)
Yes one can neglect salvation. God offers us an abundance of blessings which procede from the salvation he gives us. We can neglect salvation and lose out on many of those blessings (both temporal and eternal rewards or blessings)
That is neglecting a gift. But even if you neglect it the GIFT IS STILL YOURS
I am not fighting obedience to God. I teach it, I preach it. I confront in love those who do not obey God and are in sin.
That is NOT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.
We are discussing, Being obedient to earn, keep, or not lose salvation (make salvation based on merit) vs being obedient because you love, trust, and understand God. and are tryign to be like him (love, others focused, crucifying self)
Yes one can neglect salvation. God offers us an abundance of blessings which procede from the salvation he gives us. We can neglect salvation and lose out on many of those blessings (both temporal and eternal rewards or blessings)
That is neglecting a gift. But even if you neglect it the GIFT IS STILL YOURS
you are discussing, Being obedient to earn, keep, or not lose salvation ,you throw that at everyone who disagrees with you. You can neglect salvation and get your just reward. ....
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
You already posted "a work of obedience is a work of mert"
So according to you Abraham and Noah were trying to merit their salvation.
Not a single verse says Abraham, Noah or any one else was declared righteousness BEFORE they did righteousness.
Here is another clear example of how the man-made 'faith only' is the exact opposite of what the bible teaches.
You say "Noah was not saved because he works"
The bible says Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah's works, his "moving" and "preparing" was to the saving of his house.
So according to you Abraham and Noah were trying to merit their salvation.
Not a single verse says Abraham, Noah or any one else was declared righteousness BEFORE they did righteousness.
Here is another clear example of how the man-made 'faith only' is the exact opposite of what the bible teaches.
You say "Noah was not saved because he works"
The bible says Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah's works, his "moving" and "preparing" was to the saving of his house.
E
Rolls eyes////
Yet another one bearing false witness.
No they did not merit salvation, they were saved BEFORE they did one work. A part you cannot comprehend.
If they were saved after they did their work, they merited their salvation. that is what you are teaching, NOT ME
Gen 15. read it and weep.
Your talking physical life. I am talking spiritual life.
Abraham was saved spiritually by faith. His work after he was saved saved his physical life.
Learn how to separate the physical from the spiritual.
E
No. I throw that out to people who claim if we do not work. we will lose salvation (like you) do you see me throwing that out to other people who love to do the works of God??
Now are you going to answer?
How can you claim to not try to merit salvation yet claim if you do not work hard enough not to fall away ( a great task I may add) then you will not be saved.
A contradiction in terms.
Stop bearing false witness, and put your money where you mouth is.
Now are you going to answer?
How can you claim to not try to merit salvation yet claim if you do not work hard enough not to fall away ( a great task I may add) then you will not be saved.
A contradiction in terms.
Stop bearing false witness, and put your money where you mouth is.
Gathering manna was a work, to deny that is to deny reality. Again, this is another clear example where the man-made faith only puts you in a position to deny something as simple as gathering manna is a work.
Ex 16:
22-And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23-And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24-And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25-And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26-Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27-And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28-And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29-See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day
30-So the people rested on the seventh day.
The Sabbath was a day of REST. If gathering is not a work then nothing wrong with gathering on the Sabbath. Yet gathering is a work and they were to REST on the Sabbath Day. Verse 27 some went out to gather on the Sabbath Day and God condemned them for working on the Sabbath
Ex 16:
22-And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23-And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24-And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25-And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26-Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27-And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28-And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29-See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day
30-So the people rested on the seventh day.
The Sabbath was a day of REST. If gathering is not a work then nothing wrong with gathering on the Sabbath. Yet gathering is a work and they were to REST on the Sabbath Day. Verse 27 some went out to gather on the Sabbath Day and God condemned them for working on the Sabbath
E
Go earn your salvation.
But do me a favor. Stop arguing, Your not going to convince anyone and quite frankly I am sick of trying to discuss Gods word with someone who has no desire to discuss scripture. But continue to tell lies about everyone he does nto agree with.
Enjoy life. for I fear this is all you will have.
But do me a favor. Stop arguing, Your not going to convince anyone and quite frankly I am sick of trying to discuss Gods word with someone who has no desire to discuss scripture. But continue to tell lies about everyone he does nto agree with.
Enjoy life. for I fear this is all you will have.
This changes nothing. Israel was in the wilderness, they became hungry, God sends them of His grace free manna with the condition they work to gather. Their work in gathering no way earned the manna.
There is this straw man that shows up from time to time that accuses me of saying salvation is trying to be earned when one obeys God's will. This thread is to expose that straw man as false for there are many biblical examples given where a free gift was given but the free gift was conditional upon a work without that work earning the gift. Will this thread end that straw man? No, for that straw man is the only "argument" some have to make and that cannot let go of it.
There is this straw man that shows up from time to time that accuses me of saying salvation is trying to be earned when one obeys God's will. This thread is to expose that straw man as false for there are many biblical examples given where a free gift was given but the free gift was conditional upon a work without that work earning the gift. Will this thread end that straw man? No, for that straw man is the only "argument" some have to make and that cannot let go of it.
You posteda work of obedience is a work of mert
Abraham and Noah did obedient works and according to what you post, they were trying to merit salvation. Your faith only ideology has you so confused you don't know if your coming or going.
Nothing in Gen 15 says Abraham was righteous/saved BEFORE he did righteousness. Go back to chapters to Gen 12:1-4 and see Abraham's faith ALREADY had obedience in leaving land house and kindred BEFORE Gen 15
So Noah could have disobeyed God in building the ark and still be saved spiritually? Hardly.