Baptism Essential to Salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S

StoneThrower

Guest
This is one topic I haven't seen on this forum:

Is water baptism essential to salvation?

Does it matter how you are baptized? (Sprinkled or fully immersed)

Does it matter what is said when they baptize you? (Father, Son, Holy, In Jesus name, name of the Lord Jesus?)
This is the problem with the duck dynasty boys. I love the show, but it has provided Phil Robertson a pulpit to teach his church doctrine that says baptism is required for salvation and its not thats adding works to salvation and then becomes heresy.
Max Lucaddo is another, that one time he says it, and another he dances around it and its real hard to figure out what he really believes so its better to avoid him.
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
water baptism does not save us on it on.. im not saying all you have to do to be saved is be baptized but with out it we cant be saved we have to be baptized in his name for for remission just as the scripture say.. theres no way around that no matter how hard people try to go around it
Water baptism is an outward symbol of what's already taken place. Its to let those in the church know who is part and who is not.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To Atwood and SeaBass, You both have a problem. both are making a bad conclusion not backed up by Scripture. SeaBass you are not reading Jh.. 3 right; You make "born of water" as baptism, but Jesus is answering Nic.'s question of natural birth, Jesus said, Nic, you need more than natural birth, you need the supernatural birth of the Spirit. Atwood, you are reading Jh.3 right, but don't know the whole truth of being born of the Spirit. The Salvation experience of God is universal and the same for all ages. Adam and Eve were "baptized by the Spirit" into the body of Christ, The one Church of Christ, God. Jesus did not ,however, give Nic. the whole truth of "the new birth". There is a "washing" in the new birth, not by lit.water, but by the Spirit, a spiritual washing away of our guilty conscience, Jh. 3 does not teach this, it is taught in Jh, 13:10 "He who is bathed" "you are clean, but not all of you." Judas still had a guilty conscience, not born again. And 1Cor, 6:11, "washed" clean in conscience" and "sanctified" renewed by the Spirit, and "justified", by grace and faith. "by the Spirit". Also Tit.3:5, "the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit", cleansing of conscience and rebuilt, renewed, by the Spirit. Water has a spiritual meaning= the Word of God. We are born again by the word, 1 Pet.1:3, Janes 1:18 and Eph.5:5:26. God uses His Word and power in giving us the new birth. Therefore ,If we are born of the Spirit , we will FEEL clean ; If one still has a guilty conscience they are not saved, not born of God, if one has no hunger for God and truth, they are not born of God. If we are saved ,we will FEEl saved. And we must keep in the word so we will be cleansed of daily sins. Salvation is more than being justified. Love to all, Hoffco
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
You both have a problem. both are making a bad conclusion not backed up by Scripture. SeaBass you are not reading Jh.. 3 right; You make "born of water" as baptism, but Jesus is answering Nic.'s question of natural birth, Jesus said, Nic, you need more than natural birth, you need the supernatural birth of the Spirit.

Atwood, you are reading Jh.3 right, but don't know the whole truth of being born of the Spirit. The Salvation experience of God is universal and the same for all ages.
You are correct. The only qualification is that in the OT they trusted YHWH (as Jonah says, salvation is if YHWH; as Isaiah says, the only Savior is YHWH). With the new clearer revelation in the NT that God is a Trinity, in this age men must focus the faith on the 2nd person of the Trinity, the name of Jesus.

Adam and Eve were "baptized by the Spirit" into the body of Christ, The one Church of Christ, God.
Hoffco, what on earth leads you to think that? While the Bible does not say that Adam was ever saved, the clothing of him with animal skins is suggestive of that, though it looks like a unilateral act of God without any statement of Adam trusting in YHWH. Perhaps the fact that Adam received the skins is hopeful for Adam, even if we don't know if Adam was asleep or not. We can see a picture of the Lord taking away our self-righteous fig leaves & covering us with the righteousness of Christ, though it is not clearly thus stated.

Given the above, there is still no statement about any Church. As late as Acts 16, the Church was yet future, "I will build." The baptism of the Spirit puts a man into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). Baptism with the Spirit was future when John the Baptist predicted that the Lord Jesus would baptize with the Spirit. This was still future in Acts 1 but predicted to soon happen. It happened in Acts 2. Thus the Body of Christ began in Acts 2. The Church is called a mystery in the epistles.

Water has a spiritual meaning= the Word of God. We are born again by the word, 1 Pet.1:3, Janes 1:18 and Eph.5:5:26. God uses His Word and power in giving us the new birth. Therefore ,If we are born of the Spirit , we will FEEL clean ; If one still has a guilty conscience they are not saved, not born of God, if one has no hunger for God and truth, they are not born of God. If we are saved ,we will FEEl saved. And we must keep in the word so we will be cleansed of daily sins. Salvation is more than being justified. Love to all, Hoffco
I have no argument with that Hoffco. But what we are establishing in this thread is that water baptism is not essential to salvation. Of course one is free to expand on the theme, which you have done in a positive way, except for your claim about the Church and what I know or don't know. Of course, I do have much to learn and am still learning the whole truth (we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face).
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Originally Posted by Atwood

As a human act, water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save.
Faith is the only human act (Must-I-Do) required for salvation.
The multitude of verses indicating only faith proves water baptism cannot be essential. The evidence is already posted below in 2 long posts.

Eph 2

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Acts 16:
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Believe is the only must-I-do.
The jailer did get water baptized soon after,
but water baptism is never a must-I-do for salvation.


14 "Then he said,`The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.
15 `For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
16 `And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.' (Act 22:14-16 NKJ)
"Arise and be baptized. And wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Let us punctuate the verse so that it agrees with the rest of scripture.

For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. In context the call is a call of faith in Rom 10:13

Water baptism is a human work, thus it cannot save, as Eph 2 tells us, "now by works."

Now Spirit baptism is not a human work, it is something done to all believers without consulting them, when they trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. (1 Cor 12:13).
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
You are correct. The only qualification is that in the OT they trusted YHWH (as Jonah says, salvation is if YHWH; as Isaiah says, the only Savior is YHWH). With the new clearer revelation in the NT that God is a Trinity, in this age men must focus the faith on the 2nd person of the Trinity, the name of Jesus.


Hoffco, what on earth leads you to think that? While the Bible does not say that Adam was ever saved, the clothing of him with animal skins is suggestive of that, though it looks like a unilateral act of God without any statement of Adam trusting in YHWH. Perhaps the fact that Adam received the skins is hopeful for Adam, even if we don't know if Adam was asleep or not. We can see a picture of the Lord taking away our self-righteous fig leaves & covering us with the righteousness of Christ, though it is not clearly thus stated.

Given the above, there is still no statement about any Church. As late as Acts 16, the Church was yet future, "I will build." The baptism of the Spirit puts a man into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). Baptism with the Spirit was future when John the Baptist predicted that the Lord Jesus would baptize with the Spirit. This was still future in Acts 1 but predicted to soon happen. It happened in Acts 2. Thus the Body of Christ began in Acts 2. The Church is called a mystery in the epistles.



I have no argument with that Hoffco. But what we are establishing in this thread is that water baptism is not essential to salvation. Of course one is free to expand on the theme, which you have done in a positive way, except for your claim about the Church and what I know or don't know. Of course, I do have much to learn and am still learning the whole truth (we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face).
I posted this in another thread, you need to understand salvation the way they did in the Old Testament which almost always was a general sense of being delivered from any enemy or spared. Not as being borng again.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
The "mystery" of salvation in the old t. is explained in the new T.. The Fact that one must be "born of the Spirit" should tell us that all the elect to salvation, in both o. & n. T., were, HAD to be " born of the Spirit, HENCE, baptized by the Spirit. AND, we all are baptized into the body of Christ, The ONE Church. AS, "the Church n the wilderness" Acts 7:38, AS, one FOLD, one FLOCK, JH.10:16 AS,ONE olive tree. Rom.11:16-22. The NATION of Israel is NOT apart of the eternally chosen CHURCH of GOD, and the CHURCH is not new to the New T.. Love to all Hoffco
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Re: The Only MUST-DO Is Believe

That is what Seabass said ,

What scripture says is

"Sirs, what
must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved."

Only one
must-do was specified by the prophet.

Yes, the jailer was baptized after believing, as he should have been.
But nothing is said about baptizing being required for salvation.

Seabass said a falsehood:

"
Also note v41 implies one has not accepted the gospel message until he has been baptized."
Utterly false.

Imagine if a chariot had come at a high rate of speed and run over the jailer before he got dunked in water.
Can you imagine the Lord telling Him at the Pearly Gates, "Sorry, you were not dunked."
That would have made the Lord liar, which He is not.

Water baptism never saves in the Bible.
Over & over, time & time again, salvation is for belief/faith alone.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
No ifs, ands, or buts.





[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
The jailer was commanded to 'believe'. The word "only" is not in the verse but must be ADDED thereby changing/perverting God's word.

In Acts 2:41 those that rejected being baptized were the ones rejecting the gospel message.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Re: Salvation is Offered Just for Belief -- Part 2 (Not Water Dunking)

FAITH ALONE SAVES! NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED

(WATER BAPTISM IS NOT REQUIRED)

-- PART 2 --



Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Not a single verse you posted says "faith alone" saves. God's word would have to be changed/perverted by adding the word 'alone'


Faith saves Eph 2:8
Repentance saves Lk 13:3
confession saves Rom 10:9
baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21
engrafted word saves James 1:21
hope saves Rom 8:24
grace saves Titus 2:11
blood of Christ saves Rev 1:5
obedience saves Rom 6:16-18
calling on the name of the Lord saves Rom 10:13
gospel saves Rom 1:16


Faith is far from being the only thing that saves.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Re: As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

I posted a ton of verses below where it is only faith or believing that saves.

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe . . . ." Acts 16

This is a
must do, believe. Water baptism is never called a must-do for salvation.
It is a work, and human works do not save.

The rare verses (which do not mention water) which associate baptism with salvation, cannot overrule the fact that a ton of verses which only require faith. If you believe & eat beans, yes you will be saved. But the beans are not essential for salvation.

The Lord does not make false promises or false advertisements.
Did you purposely "overlook" Lk 13:3,4 where repenting saves? Rom 10:9 confession saves? 1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves?
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
False parallel

"How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Water baptism does not cause a flesh-new-birth. The water accompanies the old birth. Flesh born does not enter the Kingdom. Flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom (1 Cor 15).
The requirement is born again, moving beyond water & flesh birth.

1 Cor 12:13


For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

No water in 1 Cor 12:13.
Your parallelism is clever, but contrived. And it proves nothing about a conversation many years before Spirit-baptism began.






Agreed. Therefore water baptism cannot save, for many saints in the OT were never baptized. Neither was the thief on the cross; yet he went to paradise. Abraham was never baptized. Good one!



If it is required to enter the Kingdom of God to be not only naturally born (water) but also born of the Spirit (new birth), that proves nothing about 1 Cor 12:13. To be baptized into the Body of Christ was not even available before Pentecost. In Acts 1 they were told that the Spirit baptism was yet future. It began in Acts 2. It is wrong that both passages must refer to the same thing.



He did not tell Nicodemus that Nic needed a water-birth. Nic already had a water-birth. The Lord doesn't say "ye must be born of water." He says, "Except a man be born." The water birth already took place. The only thing the Jews needed as being born anew of the Spirit, which is intangible, as opposed to tangible water. The following rules out the splash of water in the Spirit produced new-birth.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Fales parallel????? The bible perfectly harmonizes:

Jn 3:5----------------spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in kingdom
1cor12:13-----------spirit++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in body

People can deny this, hate this but can never get rid of it. You agreed there is only one way to be saved so both verse MUST HARMONIZE so no claimed "false parallel here at all.
 
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
Re: John 3 Has No Baptism (word is not there)

Jn 3:5: 1) born of water--- 2) and the Spirit>>> 3) kingdom of God.

1 Cor 12:13: 1) missing--- 2) Spirit baptized>>> 3) one body,

No water is in 1 Cor.
Born of the Spirit = regeneration of the Spirit, which is not baptism of the Spirit.
kingdom of God in John 3 is not the Body of Christ, the Church.
"Baptized" does not occur in John 3.

Baptism is simply not in John 3.
Who are you trying to trick by adding the words 'spirit baptized' in 1 Cor 12:13?????

There is nothing "missing" in 1 Cor 12:13.
 
May 2, 2014
1,060
12
0
You are correct. The only qualification is that in the OT they trusted YHWH (as Jonah says, salvation is if YHWH; as Isaiah says, the only Savior is YHWH). With the new clearer revelation in the NT that God is a Trinity, in this age men must focus the faith on the 2nd person of the Trinity, the name of Jesus.



Hoffco, what on earth leads you to think that? While the Bible does not say that Adam was ever saved, the clothing of him with animal skins is suggestive of that, though it looks like a unilateral act of God without any statement of Adam trusting in YHWH. Perhaps the fact that Adam received the skins is hopeful for Adam, even if we don't know if Adam was asleep or not. We can see a picture of the Lord taking away our self-righteous fig leaves & covering us with the righteousness of Christ, though it is not clearly thus stated.

Given the above, there is still no statement about any Church. As late as Acts 16, the Church was yet future, "I will build." The baptism of the Spirit puts a man into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). Baptism with the Spirit was future when John the Baptist predicted that the Lord Jesus would baptize with the Spirit. This was still future in Acts 1 but predicted to soon happen. It happened in Acts 2. Thus the Body of Christ began in Acts 2. The Church is called a mystery in the epistles.



I have no argument with that Hoffco. But what we are establishing in this thread is that water baptism is not essential to salvation. Of course one is free to expand on the theme, which you have done in a positive way, except for your claim about the Church and what I know or don't know. Of course, I do have much to learn and am still learning the whole truth (we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face).

Instead of proof-texting a bunch of passages why not look at all of them and see how they work together?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Baptism IS NOT Essential to Salvation

Well Butch,
On year when reading the Bible through for the year, I took the time to mark all the passages on salvation in pink highlighter, including passages opponents to my POV would mark.

Have you done that?

Now the water-baptism heretics do precisely what object to, proof-texting without considering the whole picture, how it all fits together:
1) salvation is by faith/believe only a multitude of times,
2) baptism is a rare addition to the context, where one might think baptism was a condition, and water is never mentioned as a condition of salvation.
3) salvation is declared not to be of works, and water baptism is a human work.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: John 3 Has No Baptism (word is not there)

Who are you trying to trick by adding the words 'spirit baptized' in 1 Cor 12:13?????
There is nothing "missing" in 1 Cor 12:13.
Water is missing in 1 Cor 12:13!

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

John 3 does not say "in one Spirit . . . baptized."
Your alleged parallel is not parallel.

Jn 3:5: 1) one be born of water--- 2) and the Spirit>>> 3) kingdom of God.

1 Cor 12:13: 1) water missing--- 2) in one Spirit we were all baptized>>> 3) one body,

The supposed parallelism is contrived and actually non-existent.

No water is in 1 Cor.
Born of the Spirit = regeneration of the Spirit, which is not baptism of the Spirit.
Kingdom of God in John 3 is not the Body of Christ, the Church.
"Baptized" does not occur in John 3.

Baptism is simply not in John 3.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: As Salvation is Offered Just for Faith So Many Times, H2O Is Not Essential

Did you purposely "overlook" Lk 13:3,4 where repenting saves? Rom 10:9 confession saves? 1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves?
SeaBass:

1) repentance sometimes is listed. But repentance (metanoia) means change of mind, not being sorry, not turning over a new leaf. There is a metamelomai repentance which is being sorry; Judas had that one, then went and hanged himself.

The only change of mind (repentance) that saves is change from non-belief to belief in Christ (as for example, repenting of writing Him off as a mere "chance-giver" and moving to trusting Him as Savior.

2) Confession. Homologeo is the word. Hom(o) = same; log = saying, thus: say the same thing about or agree with. We agree with God that the Lord Jesus is YHWH and trust Him with that definition of who He is; He is YHWH and man risen from the dead. Read context which goes on to say, "For [explanatory] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved (10:13). LORD in context = the Lord Jesus, but as a quote from Joel, the word there for LORD is YHWH. So to be saved, one may call in faith on the LORD Jesus agreeing that He is YHWH (not Jesus the Mexican car mechanic). This confession or agreement on the nature of Christ has nothing to do with public confession before men, though that should be done. (How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?)

3) 1 Peter does not say that water baptism saves, though water baptism is a picture illustrating salvation, dying & rising with Christ in a new birth. It is not water washing flesh that saves.

Here it is Seabass, the Must-I-do of salvation:

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Believe on Him, trust Him to save you, repenting of the "chance-giver" demotion.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Hebrews 12:1-3
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.

1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Corinthians 9:24-25
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Mark 13:9-13
“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Re: The Only MUST-DO Is Believe

The jailer was commanded to 'believe'. The word "only" is not in the verse but must be ADDED thereby changing/perverting God's word.

In Acts 2:41 those that rejected being baptized were the ones rejecting the gospel message.
Only is an observation; believe is the only must-I-do given to the question. Observing that there is only one must-I-do listed is not perversion. It calls attention to what is there.

Acts 2:41 says nothing about baptism saving whatsoever. And rejecting does not occur in Acts 2:41, neither does water occur in that verse. Kindly refrain from making things up.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
The "mystery" of salvation in the old t. is explained in the new T.. The Fact that one must be "born of the Spirit" should tell us that all the elect to salvation, in both o. & n. T., were, HAD to be " born of the Spirit, HENCE, baptized [sic] by the Spirit.
Hoffco, you give no proof for equating baptized by the Spirit with "born of the Spirit" (regeneration). There was no baptism of the Spirit before the Lord Jesus did it (John Bapt predicted it as future; it was future in Acts 1).

AS, "the Church n the wilderness" Acts 7:38,
You may as well argue that the Ephesian mob called an ekklesia in Acts, which cried out, "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians" was a church. Ekklesia basically means assembly. This was no Body of Christ in the wilderness. Neither was the Spirit yet "given" as John tells us.

AS, one FOLD, one FLOCK, JH.10:16
That was yet future in John 10, the Church would have both Jew and Gentile.

You go on and make claims that Rom 11 does not support.

But the purpose of this thread is to discuss the concept of water baptism, not to settle Dispensationalism vs Covenant Theology; which discussion in this context, IMHO, is not productive, as what needs to be settled here is that justification is by faith, not works. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works like water baptism. Why don't you weigh in on that topic here?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Let each one be convinced in his own mind if wants to stand firm in what they are taught, as the scriptures say. Do not judge your brothers or sisters in Christ.

Rather you believe in water baptism or works being a part or necessary for salvation we as believers will stand before our Lord Jesus and be judged by Him.


Romans 14:10-12
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For wwe will all stand before xthe judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then zeach of us will give an account of himself to God.

1 Corinthians 3:11–15
11 For no one can lay a ufoundation other than that which is laid, wwhich is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 xeach one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed yby fire, and zthe fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, ahe will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, bbut only as through fire.

2 Corinthians 5:10
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad”