It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Kerry]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

I can't speak for others, but personally I would like to see more Bible Study, and a lot less trying to justify positions. What I mean, is instead of quoting lists of scriptures, spend a little more time telling others how and why each applies to the study in progress. I am still waiting for justification of the OP statement, "It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security". I see plenty of scriptural support for both sides. If I were grading both sides, I'd give both an A for quoting scriptures, and an F for the analysis of them. My wife looked over my shoulder this morning and had one comment. "I see that they are still at it".

Try real life and not a fantasy world and then look at scripture, any one can twist scripture to support their doctrine, but real life shine the truth. I will tell you something else, Eternal security is God's will. But, God's will is not reality. For instance, it is God's will that no man should perish but that all repent to everlasting life. However, that is not reality, is it?

 

[newbirth]

Re: Walking After the Spirit is Not Obtaining Converting Salvation

Indeed, it is should not be about being saved by "obedience" to commands (works), for that is the way of self-righteousness. For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works."

Until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to "chance-giver"), the flesh (the old Adamic human nature) is the sum total of what that man is.

have no confidence in the flesh: though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews;


among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest


by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


that he might bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory before God.


ot the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.


For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you.


when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

As I said:

Until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to "chance-giver"), the flesh (the old Adamic human nature) is the sum total of what that man is.

And until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to chance-giver) he does not have the Holy Spirit, and it is futile to think such a one could walk after the Spirit.

Walking after the Spirit has nothing to do with obtaining salvation from sin, salvation to a new nature, salvation to eternal life. Walking after the Spirit is something a Christian does after he is saved.

So Walking after the Sprit is off topic on considering how to be saved & have eternal life.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Why do you separate and divide the work of God?How long does it take to start walking after the spirit after one is saved? That is why we are saved by grace through faith. You have shredded the work of God with your doctrine. Initial salvation is obtained through grace walking after the spirit is through faith.

Walking after the Spirit has nothing to do with obtaining salvation from sin, salvation to a new nature, salvation to eternal life. Walking after the Spirit is something a Christian does after he is saved.

So if you don't start walking after the spirit when you obtain salvation from sin who are you walking after? If you are not walking after the spirit you are not saved
John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You now bring quotes of works of the law in your argument...which I never said one has to do

looks like you just ran a search for flesh and pasted the results...flesh is off topic
this is on topic....
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Walking After the Spirit is Not Obtaining Converting Salvation

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That above is what you posted, NewB.

So then I posted on the flesh & you responded:

looks like you just ran a search for flesh and pasted the results...flesh is off topic

LOL, NewB, you must forget what you posted; you brought up flesh.

Why do you separate and divide the work of God?

One needs to rightly divide the Word, NewB. How to obtain salvation is a different topic from living the Christian life after you are saved.

That is why we are saved by grace through faith.

Glad you confess it.
But you continue to post on walking after the Spirit, which is off topic, even if a great subject.

So if you don't start walking after the spirit when you obtain salvation from sin who are you walking after?

If you are not walking after the spirit you are not saved

What is your proof of that one? Christians may walk after the flesh (Rom 7) or after the Spirit (Rom 8). But if one does not trust Christ as Savior (but lowers him to chance-giver and insists on works/obedience salvation), then one really hasn't a clue on this.

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Great verse NewB. So when will you believe on His name, that is trust Him as SAvior instead of merely a chance-giver? When will you receive Him as Savior? (instead of shut Him out as chance-giver?)

 

[Kerry]

Atwood
was it God's will for Adam to eat of the tree which was in the midst of the garden? what is reality?

 

[Atwood]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

I can't speak for others, but personally I would like to see more Bible Study, and a lot less trying to justify positions. What I mean, is instead of quoting lists of scriptures, spend a little more time telling others how and why each applies to the study in progress. I am still waiting for justification of the OP statement, "It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security". I see plenty of scriptural support for both sides. If I were grading both sides, I'd give both an A for quoting scriptures, and an F for the analysis of them. My wife looked over my shoulder this morning and had one comment. "I see that they are still at it".

Well Billyd,

The verses on eternal security are obvious and immediate in their signification. They are as obvious as the Lord Jesus' dismissal of error with brief statements like, Man shall not live alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Eternal security is not the result of tortured analysis of texts. However, I have given analysis when challenged on a verse or given a verse that it is alleged contradicts. Read the posted verses; if you won't be convinced by the plain word of God, I don't think you will be by an analysis.

As to the heresy, you can either see or fail to see that there is a difference between trusting Christ as Savior & dismissing Him as a chance-giver.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." The context has been analyzed. But it really doesn't require analysis, but belief. This is to be believed, not to be given the "Yea, hath God said" treatment.

But if you want analysis, you may take out a pencil & paper and diagram the sentences, which I doubt I can do here. How to diagram sentences can be learned on the internet.

But = conjunction
I = the Lord Jesus
give implies not earned, not of works
eternal = lasts forever (not temporary, not 15 minutes until you goof up)
life = fellowship with the Lord Jesus, knowing Him personally, living with Him
and = conjunction
they = the sheep, believers
shall = the future following the giving of the gift
never = at no time is any sheep lost
perish = go to the Lake of Fire or have any catastrophic malady.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

It could be also done in Greek.

 

[Billyd]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

Try real life and not a fantasy world and then look at scripture, any one can twist scripture to support their doctrine, but real life shine the truth. I will tell you something else, Eternal security is God's will. But, God's will is not reality. For instance, it is God's will that no man should perish but that all repent to everlasting life. However, that is not reality, is it?

I'll give you a little real life experience. I accepted Christ when I was 14, my life changed and many things that I couldn't do became possible. I craved more Bible study. The wrong things that I enjoyed before that day, were no longer important and were left behind. Over the next few years I met and married the perfect wife, we had four beautiful children, and lived the normal Christian family life. Then things went south. A little sin, a little more and within a few years I found myself sitting in the middle of a fire with a gun in my hand ready to end my life. A man took me by the hand with the gun in it and led me out of the fire. When I walked away and looked back that man was gone, and there was no gun in my hand. The man nor the gun was never found. It was then I realized what Jesus meant when he said that nothing could take me from his hand because he promised me that when he saved me. I have never looked back into that lifestyle that I had fallen into. (my life had collapsed and I planned to end it, but that dream changed my life) You see, it's not that you won't live a sinless life, you won't. The wonderful thing about Salvation is that I have a Comforter who is there when I need Him. The problem that we have is that we ignore His warnings when Satan creeps into our life. As we grow more mature in Christ, it gets easier to recognize those attempts to rob you of the Joy of our salvation.

Now to your last point. John put it best when he wrote John 3:16. We must "believe in Him" (wholly commit out self to him) to have eternal life. The rest of the scriptures in the NT not only support that but give examples of what it means to believe, and what He expects from His people. Unless we accept that free Salvation, we will spend the remainder of our life trying to be worthy of it, only to find that we will never be worthy of it.

I'll leave you with one question. Have you ever found that a scripture had one meaning to you when you read, but an entirely different meaning the next time you read it. My grandmother called it my "Living Water", and told me to keep reading.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Walking After the Spirit is Not Obtaining Converting Salvation

[/COLOR]
That above is what you posted, NewB.

So then I posted on the flesh & you responded:



LOL, NewB, you must forget what you posted; you brought up flesh.

and you took it out of context as with everything else
seeing you missed the point I will eliminate that line...

.You continually separate grace from salvation, as long as you continue to do that you will never understand salvation...We are saved by grace ...faith keeps us in that saved state...I don't know how to put it to you again. you keep acting as if you have this super faith, God saved us and gives us a measure of faith...That is grace bro, the faith is to keep us until he comes or we die.

 

[Kerry]

I love how they dissect words, But reality proves different and lines up with the word. God confounds the wise with the simply. Though I know Greek and speak Hebrew it is of no avail unless I apply it to reality.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood
was it God's will for Adam to eat of the tree which was in the midst of the garden? what is reality?

Good evening Kerry.
What is reality?
I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father but by Me.

Eternal security & the plan of salvation do not require figuring out the Will of God, & how it operates. The Lord's ways are past finding out anyway. We may marvel at Him, and what scripture says on His will and desires. But it gets down to trusting Him in the end. He knows what He is doing. And He tells us:

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins." He invites us to come to Him and rest. We are told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & we shall be saved.

 

[Kerry]

Good evening Kerry.
What is reality?
I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father but by Me.

Eternal security & the plan of salvation do not require figuring out the Will of God, & how it operates. The Lord's ways are past finding out anyway. We may marvel at Him, and what scripture says on His will and desires. But it gets down to trusting Him in the end. He knows what He is doing. And He tells us:

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins." He invites us to come to Him and rest. We are told to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & we shall be saved.

First of all is God's will reality?

 

[Kerry]

Secondly will you lie and say you live a sin free life?

 

[Hoffco]

God has a decreed will and a will of desires. The decreed will is reality, the will of desire, is His wish list. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Kerry]

God has a decreed will and a will of desires. The decreed will is reality, the will of desire, is His wish list. Love to all, Hoffco

Really? you are living God's will. I don't think so. I think that you are living your own will and asking God to kep living that will. The forefront of Paul was preaching the gospel. He had no wife or children. Yet he said oh wretched man that I am. He said when the law revived I died, meaning that he could not keep the law. His only recourse was the cross of Christ.

Meaning, that after he had met Christ and was blinded and then freeded from his blindness, that he still was in sin and became bound by it. Then when he took his eyes off the law and received his sight spiritually ( the a for was physical ),

Then, he said " if any man boast let him boast in Christ" reckon what that was all about, your works or OSAS.

 

[Kerry]

Eternal Security is truth but a lie. It tells people that once they accept Christ they are saved no matter how many banks they rob or how many drugs they do. It's alright as long as you attended this church and pay tithes.

 

[Atwood]

Eternal Security is truth but a lie. It tells people that once they accept Christ they are saved no matter how many banks they rob or how many drugs they do. It's alright as long as you attended this church and pay tithes.

What is your proof of that one, Kerry?
What is your proof that trusting Christ as SAvior & giver of eternal security promotes sin? You got a verse for that one?

If you insist the Christ is not your Savior, but your chance-giver, that will not help you stay out of gross sin. So will you refuse salvation from sin because that would make you sin? -- which BTW you already do.

Contemplate this saying until it soaks in:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sin.

 

[Atwood]

Meaning, that after he had met Christ and was blinded and then freeded from his blindness, that he still was in sin and became bound by it.

Now how will you prove such a thing?
Rom 7 says that I was alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived & I died . . . I am carnal. If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

Paul's life after Damascus Road in Acts certainly does not bear out what you claim. But Rom 7 indicates that he discovered how it was at least possible for a Christian to be in a carnal state & sin on occasion.


Then when he took his eyes off the law and received his sight spiritually ( the a for was physical ),

Then, he said " if any man boast let him boast in Christ" reckon what that was all about, your works or OSAS.

I don't know what you mean by that one, Kerry. Of course it is important to only boast in the Lord Jesus. I would boast that

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Amazing grace,
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!

 

[Atwood]

First of all is God's will reality?

Kerry am I wrong for I seem to smell a theological tiddlywink plinking and a religious doily being croqueted.

I say let us focus on this Savior, the precious & loving Lord Jesus. He died on the cross to save us from sin! He will succeed with all of His sheep. He gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

He Who began a good work in you is able to complete it.

But one must be one of the "you," a child of God; one who depends on the Savior for salvation.

 

[newbirth]

What is your proof of that one, Kerry?
What is your proof that trusting Christ as SAvior & giver of eternal security promotes sin? You got a verse for that one?

If you insist the Christ is not your Savior, but your chance-giver, that will not help you stay out of gross sin. So will you refuse salvation from sin because that would make you sin? -- which BTW you already do.

Contemplate this saying until it soaks in:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sin.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is a big sin, having sex with his father's wife!
But the man was saved. And part of the means of maintaining his salvation is prescribed:
chastisement at the hands of satan. 2 Corinthians indicates that this man was to be restored to fellowship after he repented; but there is nothing about him losing salvation over even so terrible a crime. Rather,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

here you are as a big supporter if sin and Paul is saying don't even eat with them


"The spirit may be saved"....I think the "may" there indicates possibility or probability I stand corrected.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11[/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Walking After the Spirit is Not Obtaining Converting Salvation

.You continually separate grace from salvation

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

faith keeps us in that saved state

No where in the scripture is salvation a temporary state. To the contrary it includes eternal life. It is the Lord Jesus who keeps the Christian in a saved state. See Rom 5 & note:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sin.

 

[Atwood]

here you are as a big supporter if sin

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

NewB, you are a sinner. And shoving off Christ as a chance-giver instead of the Savior will not help you stop sinning. It is nonsense to refuse Christ as Savior because that would promote sin.

The point is that the Lord Jesus saved the sinning fornicator. And that one means He uses to save is chastisement.

The fornicator was evidently restored to fellowship in his local church in 2 Corinthians after excommunication and being delivered to satan with the purpose of maintaining the man's salvation.

How sad it is if someone refuses to trust Christ as Savior on the grounds that such salvation from sin would make the man sin. How absurd.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Ps 118:18

The LORD has chastened me sore;
But he hath not given me over unto death.

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.